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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 18:00:27
I'm missing my ex badly. It's those stupid things that punctuate a relationship--where I was last 4th of July with him, etc.etc.
It's night, I miss him. It's morning, I miss him. It's dinnertime, I miss him. Maybe it was enough--to have someone to hang out with now and then. Someone to hold my hand and put my arm around.
Then again, we're talking about a virtually always absent man, a virtually sexless relationship. A man that could call me a pig and tell me to take my things and get out at 1am in the morning.
But maybe that could just go away. I wish it could just go away and I could have someone to love. He used to meow. That was the best thing we had together. Meowing.
I just may have to face being alone forever. I was alone a long time before he came along. Now I am just older and not as marketable. I hate to say it, but I think it's just the way it is. Should I have stayed with him? So I could have someone with me on this holiday I hate?
Posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2003, at 19:41:17
In reply to Just because it's a holiday I hate..., posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 18:00:27
He does not sound like a good catch.
You are not certainly going to be alone for the rest of your life!! 90 year olds get married. I bet you are not even close to 90.
I am alone now - I left my husband 4 years ago. Sometimes I am lonely, but much of the time I am glad to be just me. Being alone does take some getting used to.
I don't believe I'll be alone forever (and I'm 46).
Posted by tina on July 4, 2003, at 20:03:44
In reply to Re: Just because it's a holiday I hate... » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2003, at 19:41:17
i know just how you feel KL. I've been separated for a little over 3 weeks and I miss the little things. I even miss the pain in the ass things.
I miss it all. I hate being alone. Some days I believe I'll be alone for the rest of my life too. It's just that the pain is still so fresh. I keep telling myself it will take time but I'm so frustrated with the lonliness.
sorry I'm no help. Just wanted you to know you're not alone in how you feel
tina
Posted by Gabbix2 on July 4, 2003, at 21:12:28
In reply to Re: Just because it's a holiday I hate..., posted by tina on July 4, 2003, at 20:03:44
I was thinking how nice it would be if we lived closer. I have no friends where I live either.
Its not my attitude, really, its an odd town,
I've lived places that were not odd (to me)
and had lots of friends. Its an old farming religious community. Everyone is married by 15 it seems.
I'm not knocking it aT ALL, these people have helped me get funding for school, they are so nice. But we just aren't on the same wavelength socially.
I'd love to have you for tea. That would be so nice. Or just to go out for coffee. Its been so long since someones called and said "Hey, lets go get a coffee" just the thought makes me cry.
It really has been that long..
Posted by whiterabbit on July 4, 2003, at 22:30:50
In reply to Just because it's a holiday I hate..., posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 18:00:27
I'm not officially divorced yet (working on it) and already I feel that I wasted a dreadful amount of time on a selfish, selfish man. It was hard for me to admit that nearly everything he did or said indicated that he had no desire to be married, at least not to me. He never wore his wedding ring and when he got tired of hearing about that he simply "lost" it. He stayed out all night with his unmarried friends and came home whenever he damned well pleased. When I complained about something & asked him not to do it, he would do it twice as much just to show me who was in charge. He always showed much more consideration to his best friend - even his dog -than he ever bothered to show me. He griped and bitched about everything I did, never complimented or encouraged me to do anything but work harder, and spent his time at home surfing the internet looking for women.This is life with a man who does not appreciate you. It sucked and I'm glad now that it's over.
Bon voyage, Ken.
Posted by kara lynne on July 5, 2003, at 0:57:13
In reply to Re: Just because it's a holiday I hate..., posted by tina on July 4, 2003, at 20:03:44
Thanks tina. That's exactly where I'm at. Even though he was so mean that last time. I just can't reconcile someone being *that* mean; I know people get really pissed off at each other, but I think once it's gone past a certain line it's just too hard to recover.
And yet tonight I went out and I was comparing everyone to him--oh that guy isn't as intelligent, and that guy isn't as funny----like mine was simply the greatest guy around. I know he'll be out tonight with lots of friends, he always has plenty of fans and people who love him. Then I look at my sorry little life--I was talking to my friends tonight about computer dating (this couple actually met through a computer dating service) and it was so depressing. I said my first requirement would have to be that I didn't want any guy who would do computer dating!!
They were holding hands as we were walking, and I couldn't even watch. I just wanted to leave and cry. I don't like being alone. I want someone to hold my hand.
The guy made me feel like crap. He had no problem telling me what a disgusting person I am. Why do I miss him so much?
Anyway, thank you for understanding. I know you're having a really hard time too and I admire your strength. I can't believe what your husband put you through, it's just unforgiveable.
Here's to us getting through this as quickly and painlessly as possible, so that next year we aren't alone on this holiday I hate.
Posted by kara lynne on July 5, 2003, at 1:08:33
In reply to NO NO NO » kara lynne, posted by whiterabbit on July 4, 2003, at 22:30:50
It doesn't make any sense. Or else any little bit of affection is worth a man who would sit on the phone and shred me to pieces. Maybe that's really how I feel. I hope when time passes I won't feel that way anymore. We couldn't even sleep in the same bed because he snored so loud. When we did sleep together he never cudddled with me----even for a few minutes. It was like sleeping with an autistic person. It was like *being* with an autistic person.
He had no respect for me--just hidden resentment and a book full of scathing criticism about me. But in our blissful denial he could come through sometimes with those little displays of affection. Maybe I could rent a man. Someone to just accompany me for the next few days, put his arm around me and tell me I look pretty from time to time. Someone to sit next to me in the theate while they're lighting off M80's.
Keep the aversion therapy coming, I need it. Did you go through a period of wanting him back before you got to this stage?
Posted by kara lynne on July 5, 2003, at 1:18:31
In reply to Re: Just because it's a holiday I hate... » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2003, at 19:41:17
Well you're right about one thing. I'm not quite 90 yet. I'm closer to your age. But I feel like I've aged a lot in the last two years.
I'm glad you are mostly ok with being alone. I guess (like tina says) it's so fresh. I was alone for a long time. I didn't like it, but I got kind of used to it. Then I got in the relationship rhythym--however lacking it was. It makes this loneliness glaring.
I think I want to stay strong in my resolve not to be with him, I was unhappy for so long. But loneliness can make you rewrite history. I have to be careful.
Thank you fallsfall.
Posted by kara lynne on July 5, 2003, at 1:27:24
In reply to Re: Just because it's a holiday I hate..., posted by Gabbix2 on July 4, 2003, at 21:12:28
and you should come over for coffee.
I will be moving to a small town with nice people. I was there tonight. I have always liked it, but tonight of course it was depressing. Great, I'm going to be out in the boonies with these nice but kind of depressing people, where I will spend my twilight years. I will let my looks get sloppy, I'll let all the gray come in.
Meanwhile he's moving to a flashy house in a flashy city with nothing but hip dripping from all corners. He will host elaborate parties and find some 20 year old and decide he wanted a child after all.
I would certainly ask you to coffee. Who knows, maybe you'll be out here someday...
Posted by Gabbix2 on July 5, 2003, at 12:14:14
In reply to Gabbi, it's Sadder Day, posted by kara lynne on July 5, 2003, at 1:27:24
I'm not being facetious when I say moving to a small town and letting your grey come in sounds far more appealing to me than moving to a place with nothing but hip dripping from all corners.
The small town I'm in is characterless and awful
its like living in a strip mall, but I've been in many that have been very cool, especially for single women. And trust me hon, if I hock my ring, and its worth anything you will be one of the first people I visit.
Posted by Tabitha on July 5, 2003, at 18:54:03
In reply to Gabbi, it's Sadder Day, posted by kara lynne on July 5, 2003, at 1:27:24
Kara lynn, as you may have noticed I went back to my guy, thinking the companionship and physical contact were worth putting up with all the rest.. here it is day 2 and already I'm having doubts again. Once he's there all I can see are his flaws and things he lacks, then once he's gone all I see is how much we had.. we re-unite, we're perfectly nice to each other for about one day, then the old pattern starts up again. All I can think today is what am I doing with this guy who's down to his last hundred dollars, hasn't been to a dentist in ten years, and gets into stupid arguments about new age principles and jesus at a party with an academic, can't stand for me to point out anything about him at all without getting defensive and taking it as an insult, leaving me confused as to whether I really was trying to insult him or not, and I spend the day anxious and wondering if I've made a mistake out of loneliness. Yes it was nice having someone to be with on july 4th... but is it worth choosing the wrong guy? Short term comfort, long term grief.
If you can get through the breakup grief, surely your next catch will be an improvement. Keep taking care of yourself and be strong.
Posted by kara lynne on July 5, 2003, at 22:06:59
In reply to Re: Gabbi, it's Sadder Day » kara lynne, posted by Tabitha on July 5, 2003, at 18:54:03
Hi Tabitha,
Thank you for writing that. I need to hear it. He emailed and asked if he could just come over to say hello, for a hug and a pet for the cat. It was so hard to say no. I said it would be too hard, because I wanted more than a hug and a pet (although I was just saying how much I wanted a hug!).He doesn't even say he wants more anyway, so it's not like I have a better offer to consider. Maybe it's better that way, but I'm not sure. I wanted him to say he wanted more too. I said I couldn't just jump into the "friend" dimension with him. His last email was that friendship is all there is in this life, and without it there is nothing.
I didn't email him back. I'm just going to leave it for now. It was so hard not taking him up on the hug and the pet. But to read what you write helps. I'm sure we would go directly to jail.
Thanks Tabby. Good luck however it works out, and keep us posted.
Posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 0:00:27
In reply to Tabbi, it's Sadder Day, posted by kara lynne on July 5, 2003, at 22:06:59
I mean I just don't know anymore. I need a reality check. He says he "didn't mean" the words he said to me that night. He called me among other things, the most demeaning thing you can call a woman. He told me I did not deserve love and would never find it.
But the days go by, he essentially waves off his little tirade, and I think what if it was just a tirade...and I should have stayed with him and worked it out. Maybe it doesn't mean anything when someone swears at you like that. Maybe other couples do this all the time. Maybe whatever it was that made me stand up for myself will be the same thing that keeps me alone for the rest of my life.
I want to call him so badly right now it hurts.
Posted by whiterabbit on July 6, 2003, at 9:11:18
In reply to I'm going nuts., posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 0:00:27
I know this isn't a nice thing to say but the guy sounds to me like he has potential for turning into your classic wife-beater.
Any man who calls you what I THINK he called you has a temper that he cannot or will not control.
Those ugly words are great big red flags warning you away from a dangerous situation. You shouldn't ignore them.The wife-beater does just what your ex is doing -
after using her for a punching bag, he goes away and cools off. Then when he sees her packing up to leave, he suddenly becomes terribly remorseful:
he didn't mean it, he's so sorry, it will never happen again, he'll die without her...Except, of course, it DOES happen again - and again and again, if the woman keeps forgiving him.
Wherever I worked in a hospital setting, I saw this kind of thing too much. It's appalling.So proceed with extreme caution...
Gracie
Posted by fallsfall on July 6, 2003, at 9:44:17
In reply to I'm going nuts., posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 0:00:27
Kara Lynne,
My memory is really bad these days, and I haven't gone back to look, but weren't you unhappy with him BEFORE his "tirade", too?
Please be careful
Posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 13:16:40
In reply to Re: I'm going nuts. » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on July 6, 2003, at 9:44:17
But that's the whole thing, Gracie--he's *not* apologizing all over the place and remorseful; he's acting like it's no big thing. I mean sometimes he says he's sorry for the "words he said, he shouldn't have used them." And I do think you know the words I'm talking about. And it wasn't the first time he's used them, or that one that is so demeaning, specifically. And I have asked him when we're not arguing, please not to use that word even in anger because it really disturbs me. The other things like calling me a pig is pretty interesting because I weigh about 98 pounds and he is over 200 (and not tall enough for it). I was tempted to say something when he called me that during a couple of these episodes, but I refrained. His mother on the other hand, is obese and domineering and I think she has done quite a number on him that he is in denial about.
But his tirades have definitely escalated, and my counselor said they were on their way to getting even worse. There have been 3 or 4 and this was by far the most extreme.
But it's his downplaying it that has me confused now. I start to think maybe I over-reacted. I reminded one friend of mine that he told me to get my things and get out at 1am and she said people say things like that when they're mad. (I don't talk to her a lot during this, because I'm afraid she would have me call him.)
I didn't call him and I'm glad I didn't, but tonight I'll be here again going through the same thing. It was that he emailed and said he just wanted to come over and give me a hug because he missed me so much, and I was going through such hell missing him. I emailed and said that wouldn't be a good idea, that I wanted more than a hug (sorry if I'm being redundant, I just posted that somewhere).
He just wants to come right on by and be my best friend now, which is really insulting!! Nowhere did he say he wanted more, or that he was so sorry.
It's just got me nuts, that's all.
fallsfall your memory is fine. I've been qvetching and moaning for months about him, bereft on Valentine's day and most other days because he wasn't around. But now he's moving to a place where he will have his office right outside the main house, so I'm thinking I left right before the miracle. I don't know why things happen like that; he was just about to move into a better place and clean up his whole act and we fall apart. But he was just about to move into a better place *and* he still didn't really want to marry me after this long, and he still found it within himself to say such hurtful things to me. I'm trying so hard to remember that. Also, or so I'm told, anything real will survive this separation and if we are meant to come back together we will. Even if it's not true it's comforting, although somewhere deep down I really feel like it's over.
Sorry for the much too long pondering, and thanks for writing.
Posted by whiterabbit on July 6, 2003, at 15:34:04
In reply to Re: I'm going nuts. rabbit/falls, posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 13:16:40
HE sounds like the pig to me. And the domineering mother is ANOTHER big warning flag - I'm not formally trained in psychology, but because of my interest in criminology I've read over and over that a lot of men in prison for violent crimes against women grew up with a controlling mother and a father who was absent or weak. Of course
not ALL men who were raised in this type of environment grow up to abuse women, but it's fertile soil.I've complained over and over about my husband's selfishness and neglect during our married life, which is now coming to an end. I felt miserable and unloved a great deal of the time because he seemed to resent being married. But, unhappy as I was, it was not a violent marriage. I couldn't have tolerated this under any circumstances. I grew up in a violent house and when I left home at an early age to join the military, I was grimly determined to never again live in an environment where I was subjected to physical abuse. And I kept this promise to myself.
Prehaps I am the one over-reacting or being old-fashioned and I would be interested in hearing opinions from other posters on this one. But it seems to me that any man who would say such hateful, vicious things to ANY woman, much less a woman he is supposed to care about, has serious emotional issues with women in general, not just you. He sounds like the type who is incapable of
a loving, respectful relationship and has a capacity for violence. Calling you a pig and a
c*** is unacceptable behavior no matter what the circumstances are, no matter what you did or said to him, there is NO excuse. And if, God forbid, you somehow end up married to this person, he may well treat this as a license to beat you like a dirty rug because you're his property now and it's his right. And with the difference in your physical size and strength, he could injure you
severely with not a lot of effort.Like I said, maybe I'm going overboard, but he sounds dangerous and possibly sadistic to me. From where I'm standing it doesn't look good, not at all. I'm glad you have a therapist to discuss this with...you be careful, girl.
Gracie
Posted by Gabbix2 on July 6, 2003, at 16:12:33
In reply to Re: I'm going nuts. » kara lynne, posted by whiterabbit on July 6, 2003, at 15:34:04
I have to agree here. I really do. Being "mad"
is not an excuse, its not an excuse for a 3 year old and its not an excuse for a grown man. Especially one who wasn't supportive of you in the first place. Perhaps if there was a lot of good, but you expressed feeling so lonely and emotionally distanced from him and then he did this!
Would you accept this from me, if I emailed you and said those things and then said "Sorry I was mad?"
I've been in 2 relationships like that, and the suck the soul from you, they slowly leech any vitality or self love you have. You start bracing yourself wondering if they are coming home, and if they do are they going to be friendly
The best days are the days where you get a friendly hello, and then are ignored and thats not living.
In one way, the relationship I was physically abused was easier to navigate because I "knew" it was wrong. I got out. The one's I had like this one, did the most damage because I didn't get out in time.
Posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 20:15:51
In reply to Re: I'm going nuts. » kara lynne, posted by whiterabbit on July 6, 2003, at 15:34:04
I am trying hard to be strong and this helps. Thank you so much for your support. I showed the latest emails to my counselor and she said they were just full of manipulation. He didn't respect that I asked him for some time to myself first off, then he offers me nothing real, but appeals to some sentimental tug. Not that we don't all love animals, but he puts the cat almost above me in order of importance.
No, I can't just turn around and be palsy walsys with him, now or ever. I agree with everything you said, except that he's so overweight and out of shape I'm not sure I wouldn't be a match for him if he ever tried something physical. I don't know if he would, but he sure is good at wearing me completely down emotionally. Like gabbi says, sometimes that's worse. It's so insidious---that somehow here I am contemplating whether or not it's ok to be called a pig and a c***.
I'm sorry you were made to feel so unloved Gracie, I can surely relate. You said it perfectly, it was like my ex resented being in the relationship at all. When there is that underlying dynamic going on it just can't work. It permeates everything. I used to say what happened to *wanting* to be with me, to being eager to come home... I honestly don't know how we graduated to my looking like the demanding, needy female and him resenting every moment. Ironically I *like* my space, I am not an intrinsically smothering person, it's just that any need beside his own was just repulsive to him. It came to be that ordinary things were rendered unreasonable; eg. the desire to have him come in before 5am most nights of the week.
Well I made it through last night. I am going to dinner with a friend now, and God willing I will make it through another without calling him. And then another and another-- until one day, mercifully, this will be the past. Thanks again.
Posted by kalyb on July 6, 2003, at 20:21:42
In reply to Thank you Gracie, Gabbi, posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 20:15:51
I'm not at my own computer right now Kara but I wanted to say, be good, be strong, this is a testing time but I know you will come through. You have all the right ideas, it's just your natural doubt, I know you will be ok. Email me if it gets tough
{{{hugs}}}
kalyb xxxx
Posted by Tabitha on July 7, 2003, at 21:23:21
In reply to Thank you Gracie, Gabbi, posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 20:15:51
it's nice to hear you sounding hopeful. You can get through it.
This is the end of the thread.
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