Posted by JLx on October 11, 2004, at 9:12:29
In reply to Re: 12 step programs » JLx, posted by Cass on October 10, 2004, at 17:21:51
Hi Cass,
> I clicked on the link for "Your Sacred Self", but it took me to a book called "Sacred Contracts". Funny, huh?
Sorry, I must not have identified the right book on edit. "Your Sacred Self"
> To me, it seems that some people associated with alcoholics truly are victims. If someone beats up their spouse in a drunken rage, or verbally abuses their children or does other destructive things, I would call those people victims. Same goes for those who are victimized by dysfunctional people. It seems like there is this unwritten rule that seeing oneself as a victim is a sin, but the way I see it, some people have truly been victimized, and there is no shame in making that observation. If a person sees themself as a perpetual victim, in all circumstances, that's different. That's unhealthy. But what's wrong with calling a spade a spade if someone has been victimized? Why can't they admit it? What's wrong with saying it?
Well, you're talking about two different things there -- seeing others as victims and seeing oneself as a victim. If someone is raped or beaten, obviously the outside perspective is that they were victims of assault. This is fact, but it's also a matter of perspective. To the extent that a victim continues to self-identify as a victim, they'll stay stuck. One 12-step meeting I used to go to was "Incest *Survivors* Anonymous".
> Do you think these 12 step meetings would want me to blame myself or say that I somehow brought it on myself? I'll gladly take responsibility for my own behavior, but why should I take responsibility for someone else's?
Many people come into Al-Anon saying, in effect, "I'm here because of so and so. How do I get him/her to stop this behavior? My life is chaos and I'm so unhappy. He/she needs to change...then I can be happy, then my life will be better."
What Al-Anon will gently teach is, "You're here because you have a problem with so and so. You cannot make another person change. As long as your happiness depends on that other person changing, you have a problem. It's YOUR problem. The only person you can change is yourself. That's your way out of this chaos and unhappiness."
I remember the first time a therapist said to me at 18 when I was complaining about how unhappy my mother "made" me, "Why do you give her so much power?". What do you mean, "give her"?, I said, she just has it! :)I was quite a veteran of therapy when I started in 12-step programs and I was amazed at how much therapy goes on there -- for free.
JL
poster:JLx
thread:395948
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040914/msgs/401488.html