![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ruby on July 5, 2003, at 22:06:41
hi folks--it is that time of night when i ought to be trying to get myself to bed but instead i'm feeling unsettled and sad and stubborn. i don't want to go to bed, she says!!!
having a hard time knowing when to fight and when to surrender. anyone know what i mean? is it better to fight my urge to stay up all night and go to bed or to surrender to the urge and stay up as long as i want? this seems to be one of the major themes in my life right now.... even with meds: should i surrender to them (as i guess i've done) or fight against them (probably not so wise). do i fight the urge to hurt myself or hurt myself to let some of the pain out?
tomorrow morning i know i'll have my usual battle over going to church, which is a very caring community for me and almost always i leave feeling better....but i hate going out to get there, i just absolutely hate it. would rather stay in the nest here at home...feeling progressively worse all day long.
i have so much respect for all of you out there who are also struggling and who have shared those struggles here...reading them makes me feel less alone and somehow less weird about all of this.
sigh. i just wish it weren't so hard for so many of us....for ANY of us for that matter. i wish thick clouds would come over to shower us with healing rainfall; i wish our beds would cradle us in tenderness; i wish all of our dreams would touch the depth of our fears and bring us into courageous territory. i wish, i wish, i wish...
Posted by zenhussy on July 5, 2003, at 22:54:41
In reply to surrender or fight?, posted by ruby on July 5, 2003, at 22:06:41
>>sigh. i just wish it weren't so hard for so many of us....for ANY of us for that matter. i wish thick clouds would come over to shower us with healing rainfall; i wish our beds would cradle us in tenderness; i wish all of our dreams would touch the depth of our fears and bring us into courageous territory. i wish, i wish, i wish...
Me too Ruby, me too. Wish I may wish I might wish I find the courage to last through the night.
You are not alone.
As one who is not a regular church going type of person I tend to see the goodness in congregation. I hope that you are able to get up and attend if it is something that you leave feeling better than when you first arrived.
Any guesses as to the night fear? Fighting the meds? I know the reasons behind why I tend to fight the night when I know sleep is what I need most. My attacks took place late at night early in the morning and as I get closer to uncovering some of the madness that occured I tend to fight sleep as I am frightened by the very idea of being 'under' during those frightful hours that took place so very many years ago.
Seems so rational and logical that I 'should' just be able to tell my mind to get over it and just get the hell to bed....however my mind is NOT rational and I have to take that into account.
Fight or flight?
Take each night as it comes and go with what feels right. I'm getting better at calming myself before bed when the terror strikes and the panic sets in. I'm not healed in any sense of the word but am much better than I was just a year ago and ten times better than I was two years ago. Therapy has helped and finding a non benzo phobic pdoc has made a world of difference when I feel the need to conk out with the meds and sleep regardless of what the mind has in store for me. That god for better living through pharmaceuticals---joking but a grain of truth in there.
Be very gentle with yourself and keep in touch with therapist and pdoc regarding your night schedule. Consider keeping a mood chart...I would be happy to provide a link once I'm home next week and back on my working pc.
You might be surprised at the sleep/non sleep cycle you go through.
Wishing you peaceful rest whenever it comes to you.
Best wishes.
zenhussy
Posted by whiterabbit on July 5, 2003, at 23:06:24
In reply to surrender or fight?, posted by ruby on July 5, 2003, at 22:06:41
Actually, just let it hang until morning. If you wake up & feel you can bear going to church, & usually you feel better after the service, then
get up & go. But if you wake up & really feel just too dreadful to move, then you tell God that you love him but this morning you'll love Him from home. He understands.I've found that depression makes every decision a real effort, so just try not to make any more decisions than you have to. A good way to accomplish this is to deal with each day as it comes without fretting too much about yesterday or tomorrow. This is the gold standard for us substance abuser types and plain good sense for everyone. There's a terrific book, I recommend it ad nauseum, that covers this day-to-day approach with a little more depth in the straightforward way you appreciate when you're not up for complicated theories or jargon - "How to Stop Worrying & Start Living" by Dale Carnegie.
The battle to stay up or sleep is an old one for me too. You know you should get some rest but you don't feel like it right now no matter what the clock says. What I do - not saying it's right or sane or anything, it's just what I do - is to make little bargains with myself when it starts to get late. I say, "Alright, I'll finish writing this post (or watching this show, or reading this chapter - fill in the blank), and then I'll get up and put on my pajamas." So I do that, and then I take up with whatever is so fascinating I just must stay awake, but I make another deal with myself - "When I get to this part, I'll take a little break and go brush my teeth, let the dogs in and check the locks."
That's how I get myself at least moving in the right direction towards bed. These little rituals that you do at night before going to bed - changing clothes, cup of tea, turning off lights or whatever - they signal to your subconcious that it's time to start shutting down the machine for a night's rest, which helps make you sleepy & more ready for bed.
I didn't make that up, I read it in Cosmopolitan or the Enquirer or something like that, so it must be true. Now excuse me please, have to put on my nighties.
Sweet dreams-
Gracie
Posted by ruby on July 5, 2003, at 23:06:56
In reply to Re: surrender or fight? » ruby, posted by zenhussy on July 5, 2003, at 22:54:41
thanks so much, zen (is it okay to call you that?). your message brings tears to my eyes. i don't have memories of being abused at night (so, so sorry that you do, how miserable for you)...but i do have a long, long history of nightmares and night terrors. but since i've been taking trazadone, sleep has come easily and relatively uneventfully. so i'm not sure why i struggle against putting myself down for the night. yeah, probably stuff to discuss with my t and pdoc...i see the pdoc next week and my t on tuesday...he pretty much knows about my sleep habits, though, as i mostly email him late at night or early in the morning...and then i really ramble.
ah well, it is what it is, i guess. and hopefully some night we'll all just go to bed without even being aware of any of this stuff. what a concept!
anyway, thanks again for your response, especially this late at night...it is an encouragement to turn off the computer and take my traz and at least climb into bed.
Posted by ruby on July 5, 2003, at 23:16:39
In reply to Ruby...don't take your love to town, posted by whiterabbit on July 5, 2003, at 23:06:24
i'm smiling, gracie, at your message and your nighties and letting the dogs in and the cup of tea...all such reassuring images.
some city-living rituals: hearing the grate go down at midnight at the chinese restaurant down below my window; locking the 3rd lock on my door; killing a few cockroaches at the kitchen sink... not meaning to sound cynical, just sort of laughing at myself...and that is a good thing to be doing for myself right now.
i had a good friend, a woman in her 80s, who i've lost to a stroke-induced coma, who used to call me sometimes to say "nightie-night" and what a good thing that was.
so in madeleine's spirit, i say "nightie-night" to you all and i go and get into my pjs. thank you, thank you.
Posted by Miller on July 5, 2003, at 23:37:09
In reply to surrender or fight?, posted by ruby on July 5, 2003, at 22:06:41
Ruby,
I totally understand what you are saying about going to Church. Every Sunday, I am so disappointed in myself if I don't go. But getting there is a horrible struggle. Sometimes I just have enough energy.
I am hanging on your wishes.
-Miller
Posted by Penny on July 6, 2003, at 8:11:21
In reply to surrender or fight?, posted by ruby on July 5, 2003, at 22:06:41
Ruby,
Hoping you were able to get rest last night, and hoping you were/are able to make it to church this morning if that will make you feel even somewhat better.
I, personally, can't go to church anymore. Too much conflict inside over what I think is true and what might be true. I had an intense religious experience a couple of years ago and haven't been able to reconcile my beliefs since. It's very painful for me, and, of course, my grandmother thinks everything for me would be all better if I would go.
Wishing it weren't so hard for all of us too. Some of the posts from folks in a much worse place than I reminds me of the pain I have felt at other times in my life. I know I'm fortunate to not be at my lowest point. I can, indeed, feel a little relief, as I am able to at least face some of my trials right now without ending up in tears, though that changes from hour to hour.
Didn't get to bed myself until 2 a.m., then wasn't asleep until sometime after 3. Woke up several times throughout the night and then up for good this morning at 7, where I tossed and turned and tried to go back to sleep until about 8, when I gave up and got dressed and took my dogs out. They were happy about that at least, though they never complain when I sleep in. They just sleep right there with me.
Oh to sleep in...
As to your question: surrender or fight? The hope, of course, would be for us to all fight to get better, fight to overcome this illness, surrender to the positive effects of the meds - but it depends on the day and the hour. I wonder sometimes how much of this is mind over matter, in that I wonder if I derive some kind of sick pleasure in making myself feel worse and worse. That's sort of the feeling I get when I overeat - I do it to make myself feel better, but doing it makes myself feel worse. Its a form of punishment in a way - a way of keeping myself down. That, of course, combined with the belief that I will never be happy until I am thin, but I will never be thin, so I will never be happy. Oprah points out that weight problems are caused by something deeper - yeah, as though none of us with weight problems is aware that there are deeper issues - does this mean we have to overcome those issues, and our weight problem, in order to be happy?
Right now I'm ready to surrender to the temptation for a big bowl of ice cream - yes, at 9 a.m.
Lost 35 lbs. when I was feeling well - since January - and slowly, or perhaps not so slowly, putting it back on with this trip to the Pit.
Hoping you are able to have some peace today.
Penny
Posted by fallsfall on July 6, 2003, at 9:47:53
In reply to Re: surrender or fight? » ruby, posted by Penny on July 6, 2003, at 8:11:21
Posted by ruby on July 6, 2003, at 18:11:11
In reply to Re: surrender or fight? » ruby, posted by Penny on July 6, 2003, at 8:11:21
hey there folks--letting you know i actually got to church this am, after quite a struggle which included looking for clean clothes. uggh.
as soon as i walked into the sanctuary and sat down next to a friend, i started crying--and didn't stop for 3 hours. and believe it or not, the sermon at one point was about how important it is for us in our community to show our real feelings, to cry if we need to, etc. i looked to see if he was talking to me but he was looking elsewhere, tho i know he knew i was in a tough place.
not sure what triggered the crying jag--maybe just the presence of others. i don't know. i have so few friends to spend time with these days that sometimes it feels like i fall apart with whoever happens to enter my world...just cause i have stuff that needs to come out in the presence of others.
but boy does that STINK! i end up feeling like such a basketcase...it is very, very humbling to say the least. now i'm feeling kind of sad b/c tomorrow is my usual therapy appt. and my t is away...tho i will see him on tuesday. he's taking lots of long weekends instead of one long vacation--and it totally affects our schedule and ends up ripping me apart. i hate depending on him so much, especially since it has taken me 4 years to allow myself to depend on him in any manner.
boy i am really babbling here, aren't i? sorry folks, just feeling blue and lonely.
ruby
ps: penny, last fall i lost 35 pds as i sought to fight my depression with diet and exercise (it didn't work). i've gained back at least 15 of them since starting on the meds. part of my problem is the weight, for me, is protection. having been sexually abused, i have an old investment in not wanting to look attractive, even though i think i want to be married. yuck.
Posted by whiterabbit on July 6, 2003, at 20:04:42
In reply to Re: Ruby...don't take your love to town, posted by ruby on July 5, 2003, at 23:16:39
So I know where you're coming from. Instead of crickets, we have car alarms. Instead of birdsong we have pigeons - rats with wings. And I can practically lean out my window and touch the house next door.
But I don't mind...I don't care for suburbia. Where I live, the neighbors mind their own business and do their own thing. Nobody cares if your grass gets too long or if you drive a beater or if you're gay or if you come and go at strange hours, nobody cares. But they come through when it's important - if someone is breaking into your car or getting beat up or your dogs get loose, then they'll get involved.
I think what I like best is, you can roll out of bed, step into your flip-flops and go right to the convenience store for cigarettes or whatever
without brushing your hair or even looking in the mirror, and chances are you might STILL be the most well-groomed customer in there. Don't know why I get a kick out of that but I do.
-Gracie in the City
Posted by ruby on July 6, 2003, at 20:21:28
In reply to Hey I'm a city person too! » ruby, posted by whiterabbit on July 6, 2003, at 20:04:42
yep car alarms and pigeon guano, some of my favoritie city things! lol
i too love that i can go around the corner to get my coffee and newspaper in the am, even without putting a comb through my hair--and still get smiles from the guy behind the counter. i definitely have a love/hate relationship with the city though--as most nyers do. i pay so much rent for such a tiny space, going to work requires two trains and a cab or bus--not to mention an hour and a half. but i have 10 or 12 restaurants within a block or two--turkish, french, mexican, dominican, korean, vietnamese, italian, chinese, ethiopian. lots of choices.
btw, up in maine they call seagulls rats with wings.
thanks for chatting with me gracie...i hope you are doing okay. ruby
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.