![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2021, at 11:59:53
Hi all!
So, for many years now, I've been walking a lot. We're talking about hours every day and maybe a couple of dozen or more kilometres. I guess it has helped me stay in shape better and probably manage my weight without having to reduce my food intake. I haven't, however, noticed much, if anything, of the mental health benefits I keep reading and hearing about.
What's new is that in the past 12 days or so, I've been jogging or running intermittently during my walks. I seem to be running more and more frequently and for longer. I normally reach heart rates of up to 130 bpm, with some peaks up to a little over 150 bpm; I'm 43 and my resting pulse is maybe 85-95 bpm. I use nicotine and a beta-blocker (bisoprolol) which both factor into my heart rate regulation.
I like to take notes about my emotional state. For example, I might note in my diary that I'm feeling "good" along with a timestamp. One day I noticed that I was feeling good considerably more frequently. At that time, I wondered if it might be due to endogenous opioids from the more vigorous exercise. I never ever got the so-called "runner's high", but I am wondering if the effects of these opioids can manifest in other, more subtle ways?
In addition to feeling good more often, I've also noticed cognitive improvements. It seems I am focussing better (I have ADHD), and I am less compulsive, eg. I cut short reading a forum thread that I would normally read in full for no good reason, and I'm double-checking what I write less than I normally do, which is often needlessly.
So, do you think it's the endogenous opioids at play here? There has been no change in medications. I did however start taking a multivitamin recently. There has been no salient psychologically relevant event as far as I can recall.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 13:47:20
In reply to Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2021, at 11:59:53
Congratulations. So you are going for walks/runs from hospital? Sports is pretty powerful. I think I'd go crazy without.
Posted by undopaminergic on December 3, 2021, at 8:25:33
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 13:47:20
> Congratulations. So you are going for walks/runs from hospital?
Yes. And of course from home when I'm there.
> Sports is pretty powerful. I think I'd go crazy without.
You may be right. I've read that opioids, at least morphine (or was it heroin?) and methadone, have powerful antipsychotic effects, but it's hard to find information about it. Endogenous opioids would likely be equally or more effective -- maybe they are the body's "natural antipsychotics"?
-undopaminergic
Posted by linkadge on December 3, 2021, at 17:29:22
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by undopaminergic on December 3, 2021, at 8:25:33
The effects of exercise are profound. It affects endorphins, endocannabinoids, brain growth factors, BDNF, GDNF, NGF, hormones, inflammatory compounds, neurotransmitter synthesis....you name it. Long term running (for example) will induce a subsensitivity of the presynaptic 5-ht1b receptors which can enhance the effect of antidepressants.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 3, 2021, at 22:44:15
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by linkadge on December 3, 2021, at 17:29:22
I heard that resistance exercise has a similar effect to cardio and the most results can be achieved by doing both.
Posted by linkadge on December 4, 2021, at 9:15:32
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 3, 2021, at 22:44:15
I haven't seen any studies on neurogenesis and resistance training.
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 9:21:52
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by linkadge on December 4, 2021, at 9:15:32
They seem to exist. https://www.marksdailyapple.com/monday-musings-the-dumb-jocks-myth/
My suggestion would be try both, and choose what feels better, or do both. I do well with resistance training. It is very rewarding when you make strength gains.
Posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2021, at 10:39:08
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 9:21:52
> They seem to exist. https://www.marksdailyapple.com/monday-musings-the-dumb-jocks-myth/
> My suggestion would be try both, and choose what feels better, or do both. I do well with resistance training.
>I do some variation of both. The mass of my body together with gravity provides a degree of resistance. Moreover, other laws of physics, such as those to do with movement and acceleration also play in (when you are on your way down, and your foot reaches the ground, it takes more strength to straighten your leg and foot so as to move your body upwards again).
I alternate between running at a slower speed for longer, and running faster, or even as fast as I can. In particular, I often try running faster when I'm going uphill.
> It is very rewarding when you make strength gains.
It is! I went from not being able to pull my body up on a bar (with my head above) at all to being able to do it maybe 12 times. Then I stagnated, so I wasn't getting much reward any more from the training and it was just a chore so I eventually dropped out of going to the gym.
Running is something that I can mix into my daily routine, without having to go to any particular place (ie. the gym).
-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2021, at 10:53:58
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 9:21:52
> They seem to exist. https://www.marksdailyapple.com/monday-musings-the-dumb-jocks-myth/
>The author is also into ketogenic diet and something called "Primal Lifestyle". I've heard about keto being good against depression, but I'm not at all familiar with primal.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 12:48:55
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2021, at 10:53:58
Add 10 pounds to your pull ups. I think you are stagnating because you dont increase resistance. At some point when you dont quit, youll be at a point where you make almost no more gains. Nature I have accepted it and I dont plan to quit. I want to maintain it throughout my life.
Posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2021, at 13:50:23
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 12:48:55
> Add 10 pounds to your pull ups.
It's easier to use the "pulldown" machine. I think I used 70 or 75 kgs at most (I weigh a little less than that). However, I learnt (the hard way) that you have to be careful about heavy loads to avoid injuries.
> I think you are stagnating because you dont increase resistance.
I think the key is to change something about the exercise, and that may be either increasing or lowering the resistance, or trying a different exercise altogether.
> At some point when you dont quit, youll be at a point where you make almost no more gains. Nature I have accepted it and I dont plan to quit. I want to maintain it throughout my life.
>I intend to try again at some point.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 14:28:37
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2021, at 13:50:23
You have to give your body time to adjust. New exercise: Not full power the first time you do it. Add 5 pounds to your barbell or pull ups when you are ready. Consistency!
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 5, 2021, at 3:16:16
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 14:28:37
If you want to read up on stuff and get advice: https://startingstrength.com
https://www.westside-barbell.comBoth have facebook groups as well which you can find. Good advice is essential with building muscle and strength.
Posted by undopaminergic on December 5, 2021, at 8:42:30
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 5, 2021, at 3:16:16
> If you want to read up on stuff and get advice: https://startingstrength.com
> https://www.westside-barbell.com
>
> Both have facebook groups as well which you can find. Good advice is essential with building muscle and strength.
>I have a friend who's into it, so I ask him for advice when I have questions. In contrast to startingstrength.com, which suggests 5 reps, he recommended choosing a load you can do 6-8 reps with.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 5, 2021, at 9:02:12
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by undopaminergic on December 5, 2021, at 8:42:30
Neither is wrong. It depends.
Posted by linkadge on December 6, 2021, at 16:29:30
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 9:21:52
Good to know. Thanks for sharing.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 7, 2021, at 10:30:12
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 3, 2021, at 22:44:15
Exercise has many side effects, almost none of them are bad for you.
Posted by undopaminergic on December 7, 2021, at 10:55:15
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 7, 2021, at 10:30:12
> Exercise has many side effects, almost none of them are bad for you.
The aches are unpleasant but they are a good sign that the muscles have been exercised and are getting bigger. Knowing that, they're easier to tolerate.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 7, 2021, at 10:57:47
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by undopaminergic on December 7, 2021, at 10:55:15
Hmm, I like that feeling. Sore muscles, some protein and I know I am on the right path:)
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 11, 2022, at 12:08:38
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on December 7, 2021, at 10:57:47
I followed your lead and picked up walking and cross trainer (cardio). Trying to get that resting heart rate down. Also, today is slept for 4 hours in the middle of the day, so my guess is I needed some recovery. It is hard when you have been inactive for many years. Your body doesn't know what is going on. It needs to learn. What is crackin at the hospital? You still there?
Posted by undopaminergic on January 12, 2022, at 10:29:48
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on January 11, 2022, at 12:08:38
> I followed your lead and picked up walking and cross trainer (cardio). Trying to get that resting heart rate down.
>I take 2x 2.5 mg of bisoprolol (a beta-blocker) for that, and my pulse is still over 80 most of the time.
> What is crackin at the hospital? You still there?
I was home for Christmas, but otherwise, yes. Nothing new, except that we just had a week of wearing masks outside of our rooms. That's over now. I don't know why.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 12, 2022, at 13:39:25
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by undopaminergic on January 12, 2022, at 10:29:48
how come? Why betablocker?
> my pulse is still over 80 most of the time.
Posted by undopaminergic on January 14, 2022, at 11:02:27
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on January 12, 2022, at 13:39:25
To bring down the pulse. The beta1-adrenoceptor is the potentially harmful one with respect to the heart, so hence bisoprolol, which leaves beta2 alone.
> how come? Why betablocker?
>
> > my pulse is still over 80 most of the time.
>-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 15, 2022, at 10:03:59
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by undopaminergic on January 14, 2022, at 11:02:27
Why was it high though?
Posted by undopaminergic on January 15, 2022, at 10:29:10
In reply to Re: Exercise and endogenous opioids, posted by Lamdage22 on January 15, 2022, at 10:03:59
> Why was it high though?
I wish I knew. I recall when I was in primary school the teacher mentioned that the resting pulse is normally about 60 bpm, but could be lower if you are particularly fit. I checked mine and it was notably higher. I don't remember the exact figure.
Sometimes when I'm lying in bed, it can actually drop a little below 60, but that is exceptional, and I wouldn't even know unless I was monitoring it with a Polar H10 heart rate sensor. When I took my first dose of PEA it also dropped below 60, due to baroreceptor activation resulting from the noradrenaline released.
-undopaminergic
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.