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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Fi on November 25, 2001, at 13:31:41
In reply to Suicide, posted by Cass on November 23, 2001, at 23:57:55
You already know from the previous messages how much members of this group are rooting for you.
I would add a few of the cold facts which help keep me going sometimes, about suicide.
1. It causes enormous pain and anguish to the people who love you(including your dog), and sends out ripples of distress to everyone who knew you. Far more than with an 'ordinary' death.
2. It breaks the taboo on suicide in the family, making your relatives more likely to do it in the future.
3. There is the risk it doesnt work and you end up with more medical problems to deal with.
4. You might have better times in the future- you dont know that now, and may find it impossible to believe, but at least allow the possibility. If you stop now, you wont stop the pain as you wont exist anymore. There isnt a stage 'after' when you will feel better.Something a therapist has said is to point out it is killing someone- murder- which is just as bad even tho you are doing it to yourself.
Please, please talk to someone (like a crisis line) now- dont wait. And as people keep suggesting, your pdoc as soon as possible.
If hospitalisation is suggested, think a little before dismissing it- keeping alive is incredibly important, even if it doesnt feel it just now.You have links with life, and are sad at the idea of leaving it, and have contacted us. Keep going a bit longer; decide to get help on Monday, not OD.
Fi
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on November 25, 2001, at 14:39:36
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 0:45:57
> I'm still here, but barely. I'm so sad. I don't know what to say. I've given myself till Monday to think about it (suicide) some more. After Monday, no one is expecting me anywhere until Thursday, so I could do it on Monday, and be sure of not being intervened upon.
Dear Cass,I agree with Fi!! What if your suicide attempt is a half job and you end up with incredible brain damage; that happens you know.
I have been where you are at right now, and every time I get to the point of wanting to commit suicide, I know it's time to call my
psychiatrist or therapist and get into the hospital. I hope you will do the same; you
deserve the best.Glenn
Posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 18:39:47
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by Glenn Fagelson on November 25, 2001, at 14:39:36
Thank-you for your responses. Hospitalization is not an alternative in my mind. I don't see how it could possibly help. I am going to call my pdoc again tomorrow, but I am not going to tell him just how bad things are. I don't want to go to the hospital. If my family ever found out I was hospitalized, I would bear the stigma of being "crazy". Mostly they are very unsupportive. It's difficult to get them to treat me with respect as it is. I would never, ever live it down.
I know it sounds contradictory, but my self-esteem has never been higher than it is today. I don't feel badly about myself. I do not feel worthless. A lot of wonderful people appreciate me, love me and respect me. But that doesn't make my problems go away. I still have serious medical problems. I still have financial problems.
I love life. There was a storm a couple of days ago, and now the air is fresh and cool. The moon was stunning last night over the clouds. The beauty is intoxicating. I start to cry when I think of things in life that are so beautiful. I am going to lose those things. Tomorrow is my decision day. God help me.
Posted by sar on November 25, 2001, at 19:01:14
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 18:39:47
> Thank-you for your responses. Hospitalization is not an alternative in my mind. I don't see how it could possibly help. I am going to call my pdoc again tomorrow, but I am not going to tell him just how bad things are. I don't want to go to the hospital. If my family ever found out I was hospitalized, I would bear the stigma of being "crazy". Mostly they are very unsupportive. It's difficult to get them to treat me with respect as it is.
Cass, i know what you mean...but when it comes down to the final wire, you could be a live and who gives a sh*t what they think, and the only other option you're giving yourself is *dying*?
> I know it sounds contradictory, but my self-esteem has never been higher than it is today. I don't feel badly about myself. I do not feel worthless. A lot of wonderful people appreciate me, love me and respect me. But that doesn't make my problems go away. I still have serious medical problems. I still have financial problems.sometimes feeling better can be dangerous...energy to actually harm yourself. what are your medical problems? i have extrememly serious financial problems, there are people who can help you with that kind of stuff...are *bills* anything to lose your life over?
> I love life. There was a storm a couple of days ago, and now the air is fresh and cool. The moon was stunning last night over the clouds. The beauty is intoxicating. I start to cry when I think of things in life that are so beautiful. I am going to lose those things. Tomorrow is my decision day. God help me.
this is chillingly beautiful writing, Cass...
what is it that so, so bad? you obviously love certain aspects of life and have things that you mentioned previously--good friends, a cute dog, etc--why would you want to lose the intoxicating moon, the fresh air to death.
what kind of stigma is suicide compared to checking yourself into the hospital for a few days? would your whole family have to know...? and if they did, what's the worst that could happen?
i was in the hospital myself a couple of weeks ago. the doctor there told me that homicide is considered a more mentally healthy act than suicide...what he was trying to tell suicidal-me was that the minds of suicidal people are backwards and scattered, not-at-all healthy.
ah Cass, what can i say? talk to us, please. as i posted above, i can empathize with you...i am recurringly suicidal....maybe we can help each other...?
love,
sar
Posted by Katey on November 25, 2001, at 19:45:26
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by sar on November 25, 2001, at 19:01:14
oh god Cass, you hit my core and im almost in tears. youre written eloquence is worth living for. have you ever considered writing as a career? it could be a way to get yourself out of the financial problems, or atleast a start.
do you know anyone who has a toddler, say a one or two year old? my nephew is 19 months and some days he is the only thing that keeps me teetering on the edge instead of falling off the cliff, spend time with children, watch their awe.
rent and watch American Beauty, or Life is Beautiful if you can handle the subtitles, rent something that will make you cry, to help get the emotion out.
Cass, please do not be the first person i have ever known to commit suicide. I wish that i could be a three year old child and i could just play with you- to show you more of the beauty of life than you've already seen in the nature around you. just hold on Cass. please?
Katey
Posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 21:43:50
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by sar on November 25, 2001, at 19:01:14
>i have extrememly serious financial problems, there are people who can help you with that kind of stuff...are *bills* anything to lose your life over?
Maybe bills aren't something to lose your life over, but homelessness is. I'm deathly afraid of that. How can I hang onto my dog and my garden if I'm homeless?> i was in the hospital myself a couple of weeks ago. the doctor there told me that homicide is considered a more mentally healthy act than suicide...what he was trying to tell suicidal-me was that the minds of suicidal people are backwards and scattered, not-at-all healthy.
>People who commit homicide usually spend the rest of their lives in prison. It's funny that a pdoc would say that. Law and psychology don't always coincide. I know your point is that suicidal thinking is skewed, but I'd rather go to God than go to prison (not that I want to kill anyone. The people who've harmed me the most are already gone.)
I appreciate your posts a lot. I've been very touched by all of them and everyone else's posts too (except that one by Tensor). I just don't feel like there are too many alternatives for me.
Posted by akc on November 25, 2001, at 22:11:16
In reply to Re: Suicide » sar, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 21:43:50
Cass,
I just don't want you to die. Keep hanging on. I know things appear hopeless. While your family is not supportive, try instead to hang onto those friends. Sometimes we have to turn our backs on family -- and replace them with friends. I don't know the answer on the financials -- I have been pretty bad off in the past, and somehow it always worked out. But that is simplistic for me to say -- I'm not in your shoes at this moment. But at this moment, however bad it is, you still have your dog and your garden -- so keep hanging on.
akc
Posted by judy1 on November 25, 2001, at 22:28:53
In reply to Re: Suicide » sar, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 21:43:50
Cass,
You didn't mention what state you live in, if you do maybe one of us can suggest an agency that will provide you with temporary financial help until you feel better. I'm unable to work and on disability- is that an option for you? Take care- judy
Posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by judy1 on November 25, 2001, at 22:28:53
I just spoke to my boyfriend for the first time in about a week. I was talking to him about my problems, and he was pretty cold and unsympathetic. That was about all I needed. He doesn't know I'm suicidal, but still, he shouldn't have been so cold. I feel worse than ever.
Posted by sar on November 25, 2001, at 22:50:38
In reply to Re: Suicide » sar, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 21:43:50
dear baby,
it would be difficult for you to have dog/garden to being homeless immediately. i'm $10,000 in debt but not homeless...i still shop at banana republic... ;)
i've been touched by *your* posts. i think many of us have. have you considered that? is there anyone you can call, anyone you can talk to right now?
my e-mail address is hippie_feet@yahoo.com. please feel free to e-mail me anytime, i check it regularly.
when i was at my most suicidal, i became very rational. you seem like that right now...not too argumentative, just matter-of-fact...but it's not that way, i just want to let you know that debt can be a minor thing, that family shame is too common to be so shamed over it...today, before my nap, i was thinking of rope. i think of rope all the time to put around my neck. but urging you to live helps me realize the small validity of my own life...the wine i'm drinking, the cat named Piper i will have, and how i hope to one day work in the field of psychology.
so your decision is tomorrow. will you please write to us first? suicidal thoughts can be fleeting, but suicide is forever...of course you know this.
when i wrote of homicide vs. suicide, i think what the pdoc was trying to tell me is that it's very psychologically twisted to want to kill oneself. you might want to kill another in self-defeat, revenge, what-have-you, but supposedly--anthropologically--humans are supposed to want to be progenitors of their own species.
i've been suicidal for 10 years, so don't think that i buy this completely. i was just passing on a message.
oh Cass, i just know that we go through phases..."this too, shall pass"...i'm not religious, but you are in my kozmic prayers, baby.
love,
sar
Posted by Shar on November 25, 2001, at 23:45:13
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
Cass,
it's getting down to the wire now, Monday is coming too soon. Your quiet insistence that you want to commit suicide feels sad to me now. I have a LOT of suicidal ideation, have since my teens, and I sure do understand the appeal.I was thinking, though, about not loving ourselves enough to stay alive; to be so willing to pull our own plug; to feel so toxic to others; to feel so out of control over our lives.
I work my ass off to overcome that crap and go on another day. Not for any grand philosophical reason, but just because I do. I haven't found much rhyme or reason in life, there is very little that is predictable and even less that is assured.
Maybe I stay around so I can be a pain to others. Spread the misery around. Not a bad goal to spend a little time before you leave being annoying just for the hell of it.
Or, maybe that's just my idea of fun.
I do think the one thing you/we haven't given a chance is humor. There is this doc named Cohen who feels that humor/laughter is extremely healing. I wonder what would happen if you saw a few really funny movies, or something that made you belly laugh....wonder if you'd still feel like leaving.
The scientist in me is coming out.
When you consider everything, you should probably spend Monday doing all those things you never did because you were timid, shy, etc.---you know, the awful boss, the insolent sales clerk, the arrogant maitre de, the bozohead boyfriend. Be as rude and boisterous as you like. Hell, it might feel so good to do that you'll want to stay and do it some more.
Now, that's what I call a reason for living.
Don't wanna have to miss you,
Shar> I just spoke to my boyfriend for the first time in about a week. I was talking to him about my problems, and he was pretty cold and unsympathetic. That was about all I needed. He doesn't know I'm suicidal, but still, he shouldn't have been so cold. I feel worse than ever.
Posted by Greg A. on November 25, 2001, at 23:55:11
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
Hey Cass,
Cass - ignore the boyfriend. For every ten thousand or so of us insensitive, beer guzzling, football watching men, there is one good one out there!
My dear - you write too well to deprive us of your thoughts. We need you. Hang in there.
I never thought I would let myself be hospitalized, but like I said earlier, it was the best thing at the time. I learned that most people respond pretty well to someone seeking help for themselves. I got a lot of inquiries after about 'how did you feel?' or 'how did you know that you needed help?' These were from people who saw themselves not far from where I was. There but for the grace of God go I, sort of thing. For the odd one who now sits at the other end of the lunchroom from me - F . .. them. I just move and sit right next to them.Greg
Posted by Greg A. on November 25, 2001, at 23:57:37
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by juliedealer on November 25, 2001, at 8:33:42
Hi Ms. Julie! What's up??
I didn't win the lottery this weekend. Any chance of you rigging something up for me at the casino?
Good to hear from you . . .
Greg
Posted by fi on November 26, 2001, at 5:42:40
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
Sod the boyfriend!
Hey, you need to speak to a professional. If you were having a medical emergency like a heart attack you wouldnt expect your boyfriend to fix it. You're having a psychological emergency- give your pdoc or someone a chance to talk with you. Not that they have a magic wand, but give them a chance before you do anything drastic?
By the way, meant to say before that suicide is always messy, however much you organise things. Apart from setting a psychological bomb off for those that care for you, its also unavoidable that you traumatise the poor person who finds the body.
And that I know people who are old and alone but not unhappy, so dont start on things like that now. It really is true that you need to do things one day at a time.
There's people all over the world worrying about you- please hang on in there if you can.
fi
Posted by akc on November 26, 2001, at 6:42:52
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
Cass,
It is Monday in my world -- I'm not sure where you live, but I suspect it is Monday there also. Cass -- please reach out beyond this board today. Let your pdoc know what is going on.
This is hard stuff. Some things seem so clear, but I remember when I tried to take my life that other things did not. My solution was to try to ignore the things I could not solve with suicide. Suicide is the answer to one thing -- the pain that the loneliness, depression, fear causes. But it is not the answer to many other things. As others have pointed out, best laid plans don't always go as planned. Suicide will cause pain to those you do care about -- your friends, your dog. Someone has to wrap-up your affairs -- no matter how well you have planned, there are legal and practical matters to handle once you die.
Cass, you have much to offer -- yet, you are so focused on your plan it is hard for you to see beyond the problems you face and the solution you have devised. Letting someone else into the picture to help you draw up other possible solutions -- let me play devil's advocate -- what can it hurt? Your plan will still be there. Please call your pdoc. Please tell him everything. Even if you go to a hospital -- even if you get labeled "crazy" by your family -- your plan will still be there. Try this alternative first. If it fails, your plan will be there. If your plan succeeds, you will have no alternatives. I want you to keep doors open.
I want you to stick around, Cass.
I care about you.
akc
Posted by Phil on November 26, 2001, at 6:59:38
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by fi on November 26, 2001, at 5:42:40
Cass,
Please call your doc or 911 and say three words that will save your life..."I need help."I'll sometimes walk into my docs office feeling like shit. I say something bleak and hopeless, as usual, and the doc makes a joke. I crack up and we move on.
Cass, stick around...please.
Phil
Posted by Phil on November 26, 2001, at 7:20:40
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying.
- Woody Allen
Posted by mair on November 26, 2001, at 7:49:45
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
>Cass - As you can see, lots of people here have been in your shoes. I'm not sure there's much that I can add which would be much different from what others have said except this: when I felt the most suicidal, the last person I wanted to talk to was my therapist because I wasn't sure I wanted to be stopped, and I tended to think that suicide was preferable to being hospitalized. Once my therapist started bringing up the subject of hospitalization (on her own) I started feeling like I needed to actively disguise how bad things really were. I was fortunate in that a slight meds change made a huge difference and at least I got better enough to keep myself out of the hospital. However the lengthy process I went through with my therapist, analyzing (forever it seemed) what happened and why I hadn't called her and how I felt about her maybe wanting to put me in the hospital was extremely valuable and really helped me to start working with her much more effectively. I now look back on that time and I know I never want to feel like that again, but I do see positives in it too. There can be silver linings in even the worst of circumstances.
Please call your pdoc and please keep posting here to let us know how you're doing.
Mair
Posted by akc on November 26, 2001, at 14:19:53
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 25, 2001, at 22:46:32
Cass,
I just wanted you to know I am thinking of you. Write please! Tell me what is happening. What you are thinking. What you are feeling.
I care about you.
akc
Posted by Kristi on November 26, 2001, at 17:30:58
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by akc on November 26, 2001, at 14:19:53
Hi Cass,
I just got to reading this thread..... and realized it's monday. Are you ok?
Girl, I sympathize AND empathize with ya. Well.. as you can see we all can!
I'm not sure exactly what your problems are, but I wish you'd share them. Remember, this is all anonymous. I have thought of suicide everyday for a couple of years now. I know how you feel about not going to the hospital... my friends and family would never understand..... and I would be such an outcast. Whenever I planned my suicide I always would plan it to make it look like an accident. But anyway... with these thoughts... and deadlines like you have, I am still here. Partly due to this board..... it's a great venting place. I don't see a therapist anymore, altho I know I should... I just have so much going on right now. I also have a lot of medical problems. Basically have been butchered by a doctor. I just want the pain, the agony, the embarrasement, the lonliness to just end. But what keeps me here..... is the people I would leave behind. Mostly my brother. He would be an emotional basket case for the rest of his life. When I come close, I think of him... him blaming himself...... etc that I don't give in. Do you have someone in your life like that?
Anyway, I won't say all the things everyone has said in the above posts..... they are right verbatum.... I hope you are doing ok today. Please let us know! Praying for you, Kristi
> Cass,
>
> I just wanted you to know I am thinking of you. Write please! Tell me what is happening. What you are thinking. What you are feeling.
>
> I care about you.
>
> akc
Posted by Cass on November 26, 2001, at 22:13:32
In reply to Re: Suicide-Cass, posted by Kristi on November 26, 2001, at 17:30:58
Today has been a roller coaster. First thing this morning, I had left a message with my pdoc's exchange saying that it was urgent. He still hadn't called by 3:00, so I called again and left another message. Around the middle of the day, I got a little potentially good news in terms of finances. I felt a little better. But when I called my pdoc again later, the office had already left. I can't believe he didn't call me back. I also had left him a message last Friday. Why would he ignore an urgent message from me? I owe him money, and his secretary has been upset about it. I've even wondered if she didn't give him the messages, but I doubt she would stoop that low. I am devastated. Doesn't he care if I live or die? I'm alive, as you all can tell, but you have no idea how much I'm teetering on the edge. I have one foot in life and the other in death. I feel like someone who is terminally ill. Death feels so close.
Posted by Mair on November 26, 2001, at 22:23:00
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 26, 2001, at 22:13:32
Cass - is this guy your therapist too or does he just monitor your meds? If not the former, do you have a therapist?
Mair
Posted by robinibor on November 26, 2001, at 23:02:05
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 26, 2001, at 22:13:32
Please call someone else. How about checking on one of the Suicide hotlines?
I found this on the website at www.metanoia.org and there's another good site at www.save.org
Send an e-mail to The Samaritans or Call 1-800-SUICIDE in the U.S. Teenagers, call Covenant House NineLine, 1-800-999-9999
Look in the front of your phone book for a crisis line
Call another psychotherapist or a minister or rabbi; call someone who is likely to listen.
Please try again.
> Today has been a roller coaster. First thing this morning, I had left a message with my pdoc's exchange saying that it was urgent. He still hadn't called by 3:00, so I called again and left another message. Around the middle of the day, I got a little potentially good news in terms of finances. I felt a little better. But when I called my pdoc again later, the office had already left. I can't believe he didn't call me back. I also had left him a message last Friday. Why would he ignore an urgent message from me? I owe him money, and his secretary has been upset about it. I've even wondered if she didn't give him the messages, but I doubt she would stoop that low. I am devastated. Doesn't he care if I live or die? I'm alive, as you all can tell, but you have no idea how much I'm teetering on the edge. I have one foot in life and the other in death. I feel like someone who is terminally ill. Death feels so close.
Posted by Cass on November 26, 2001, at 23:24:46
In reply to Re: Suicide » Cass, posted by Mair on November 26, 2001, at 22:23:00
He is my therapist.
Posted by kiddo on November 27, 2001, at 0:22:32
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by Cass on November 26, 2001, at 22:13:32
Does he have a pager, after hours emergency number? If you need to-go to the ER, they'll get ahold of him for you....There are crisis lines you can call-if it gets that bad, call me! I'm not doc/therp, but I've been there, and can listen.
Kiddo
> Today has been a roller coaster. First thing this morning, I had left a message with my pdoc's exchange saying that it was urgent. He still hadn't called by 3:00, so I called again and left another message. Around the middle of the day, I got a little potentially good news in terms of finances. I felt a little better. But when I called my pdoc again later, the office had already left. I can't believe he didn't call me back. I also had left him a message last Friday. Why would he ignore an urgent message from me? I owe him money, and his secretary has been upset about it. I've even wondered if she didn't give him the messages, but I doubt she would stoop that low. I am devastated. Doesn't he care if I live or die? I'm alive, as you all can tell, but you have no idea how much I'm teetering on the edge. I have one foot in life and the other in death. I feel like someone who is terminally ill. Death feels so close.
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