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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Heather66 on September 7, 2003, at 16:50:53
Dena wrote "Are you alone? Would you be willing to share your own story with us?" in the previous thread.
I thought this would be best on its own thread. I hope Dr. Bob approves of this being on the Grief board. I am grieving the loss of my best friend and lover, yet he did not die. We broke off our relationship almost 4 years ago. We first met over 10 years ago and became best friends for two years and then became seriously involved for the many years after that. I miss him terribly. It has been an extremely complicated (and awful) four years. After the first two years of crying uncontrollably, I went to a doctor who diagnosed me with single severe depression. He started me on Celexa, then Lexapro. He then refused to see me or treat me (I posted this on another thread at the time). But my issue now is that I feel incredibly alone with no doctor to talk to anymore, no luck at finding a new doctor - I have seen many and I hate them all. I didn't even like the original doctor. I have absolutely nobody to talk to - I don't trust anybody. The friends and family that I do have are not people that I can confide in... I do not trust them at all. I am paranoid and obviously have great trust issues that are not resolved. I do not believe in God. I am sick of making every decision alone. I just want my best friend back - he was someone I had for years to confide my every thougt to. He is now engaged to someone else.
I am interested in hearing how others have dealt with these same issues. I am at a point where I don't believe anything will get better. I feel all my efforts toward getting better are futile. It is obviously more complicated than this... but I would really like someone to share my problems with... someone to talk to in person... someone that I cannot find.
Should I continue searching for a doctor that I can trust or should I concentrate on developing a new friendship instead... one that will replace my old one... the one I miss so much... the one that I don't want to live without. I haven't had any luck in four years finding one single person to trust or talk to. Not one person. It is only me. Alone. And I have been looking. I don't know where else to look... And if you tell me to look for God... I've tried that too, it doesn't happen for me - that belief that you (Dena) have.
Posted by galkeepinon on September 8, 2003, at 0:13:47
In reply to Being Alone, posted by Heather66 on September 7, 2003, at 16:50:53
Heather, I really hope you don't mind~I haven't posted on this board yet, but when I saw your post, I wanted to post to you.
I met David in 1988 at work. We fell in love, he was my first serious relationship. I lost my virginity to him. We broke up in 1993 and we were best friends and lovers. He wanted to 'see the world' with me. I contacted him on classmates.com last summer and we emailed each other a few times yada yada yada about 'what was new in our lives'. He is now married for 8 years. I'm truly happy for him.
My point: I still, to this day miss him very much. I feel like I messed up, like I really, really blew it. We could have maybe had something beautiful and shared our lives together, but nope it didn't happen. I, like you, cried uncontrollably too, and here it is 2003 and just about a few months ago, I cried because of my feelings. Like you also, I went to a doctor who diagnosed me with major depression(severe) and put me on Prozac at the time.**I have been where you're at. There was a time when I had no doctor, no one who I could talk to, no one I could trust. Right now, you don't have your friend, and I am sorry. There are a million more 'friends' out in your world that may be waiting for you. Maybe someday you two will have something again, maybe not. Try to remember this, whatever you two shared, cannot be shared between him and anyone else:-)remember that, I know he will. That's important.
There is a saying, *It is better to have loved and lost, then to have never loved at all*, please remember that right now.
I hear your feelings of hopelessness, I've been there, I hear your frustration, I've been there. I was told once by a great therapist when I was trying to 'find' that same someone that you are, to look right 'here', and you know where she pointed to? She pointed to my heart. She told me that only I am going to be the one who finds what I need and get it. A doctor can't give it to me, a med can't, a friend can't give it to me, a boyfriend, husband, etc.~I'm not saying that these things can't be shared, oh sure they can! A doctor helps us with meds and diseases and affliction, we share our live with friends and lovers, etc., but sometimes they will let us down. We will expect something from them that they cannot or will not be able to give us, and that's where we have to give it to ourselves. But maybe we need to look inside ourselves for what it is we need, and give that to ourselves. Life holds no guarantees. Somehow, you've got to break down those 'walls' and let people in. Let them help you, let yourself be helped and cared about again and let yourself care again. You owe it to yourself.
That's all I can say right now, I really hope this helped.
Take Care!
Posted by kara lynne on September 8, 2003, at 13:50:01
In reply to Re: Being Alone » Heather66, posted by galkeepinon on September 8, 2003, at 0:13:47
-She pointed to my heart-
Thank you gal. Like Heather, I hear so many cliches and catch phrases that don't seem to touch that intolerable despair.
For a moment, this did.
Posted by Heather66 on September 8, 2003, at 22:57:04
In reply to Re: Being Alone » Heather66, posted by galkeepinon on September 8, 2003, at 0:13:47
I am so happy that you shared your story and your words - that is exactly why I risked sharing details of my situation - to hear encouragement like you have given me. You have helped me tremendously tonight as I read this. Thank you. I am feeling a bit better today, but not too much better and your words are helpful.
Did you ever find someone else to trust? My guess is that it was not a therapist but a true friend. I can't just decide to open up and let people in. It isn't working.
Posted by galkeepinon on September 8, 2003, at 23:34:53
In reply to Re: Being Alone galkeepinon, posted by Heather66 on September 8, 2003, at 22:57:04
You are most welcome.
I did find many people who I could trust as the years passed and yes, a therapist was one of them, a very true friend, and my mother were the other two. My friend also had similar concerns as I did and we really learned a lot together, we grew together, we learned valuable lessons about life together, were there for each other, laughed at the same things, could tell each other anything, be ourselves, and be accepted for that. But like you again, it still, at times, is hard for me to open up and let people in too. I think many people go through similar feelings, examples could be right here on this board. There are things that I wish I could post, but I have feelings that I've created in my mind that tell me that I may be rejected or judged, or whatever. So, at times, I risk it, like you did.
I would like to say by the way, that you 'let me in' just a tad by just responding to my post. I applaud you for also posting your original post as these are really both steps toward 'opening up'.
Think about it:-)
It is not easy, I know.
Hang in there and be good to you!> I am so happy that you shared your story and your words - that is exactly why I risked sharing details of my situation - to hear encouragement like you have given me. You have helped me tremendously tonight as I read this. Thank you. I am feeling a bit better today, but not too much better and your words are helpful.
>
> Did you ever find someone else to trust? My guess is that it was not a therapist but a true friend. I can't just decide to open up and let people in. It isn't working.
Posted by rayww on September 9, 2003, at 6:34:50
In reply to Being Alone, posted by Heather66 on September 7, 2003, at 16:50:53
Wonderful words shared here. Thank you for touching my heart. Emotional pain is so difficult to face and walk through. One thing I discovered to help me face the pain and get to know myself was to use a present physical pain, then use transferance to relate it to something else. For instance, for a time I was wearing a rigid arch support. I could only bear to walk in them a few minutes every day. Gradually with practise I learned to walk 4 miles in them without pain. I likened that to learning to walk in my grief, and realized there would be a time when I could feel comfortable in my grief, and enjoy the healing in my body as it realigned from my feet to the top of my spine. But a realignment was indeed necessary. Another time I had surgery and incredible pain afterward. I purposely went inside as much physical pain as I could tollerate and then matched it up to my emotional pain. I kept doing this and as the physical pain eased and I healed, I brought the emotional pain along with it. I took emotional pain and wrote a story about something entirely different that would use that pain somewhere in it. I took those stories to the limit and could go back to them and read them over and over again. they would start out nice, then something very painful would happen, and there would be a happy ending where everything would work out exactly the way I wanted it to. In writing stories you can make anything happen you wish and they can be very theraputic. I chose to do most of my own work, and only relied on doctors and bishops for a very small part of it. But I like to do things "my" way, which boards like this allow.
For what it's worth, I have found that pain is pain, loss is loss, grief is grief, mistakes are mistakes, and they all require similar steps in healing. Call this group therapy? It's kind of like "work's work", it doesn't matter what you choose or where you start first, work is work. All work gets you somewhere.
Posted by Dena on September 9, 2003, at 15:15:55
In reply to Re: Being Alone, posted by rayww on September 9, 2003, at 6:34:50
Ray,
As usual you've found a way to so eloquently put words to what goes on inside of you.
I've done the same thing with linking physical & emotional pain - only I did it intuitively - I never gave it the depth of thought & purpose that you did. Wow. I wonder whether a study has been done to explore whether this could be a universally applied therapy. We could name it after you, Ray! "Rayemotics".!
Dr. Bob - interested in pursuing such a study?
Since we're such integrated beings, body - mind - emotions, I wouldn't be surprised if this is just one of the ways in which we're designed to heal.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 9, 2003, at 18:01:52
In reply to Re: Being Alone » rayww, posted by Dena on September 9, 2003, at 15:15:55
> Dr. Bob - interested in pursuing such a study?
Maybe, what would be involved?
Bob
Posted by galkeepinon on September 9, 2003, at 20:37:28
In reply to Re: Being Alone, posted by rayww on September 9, 2003, at 6:34:50
Hi, I hear you, yes emotional pain is so tough to face, I do feel better though when I've cried, it's like cleansing the soul.
Your example comparison to the 'arch support' and grief was nice~thanks.
Really liked your post, work is work:-)
you have a good attitude:-)
and so true all work gets you somewhere, thanks for reminding me.
~very neat post> Wonderful words shared here. Thank you for touching my heart. Emotional pain is so difficult to face and walk through. One thing I discovered to help me face the pain and get to know myself was to use a present physical pain, then use transferance to relate it to something else. For instance, for a time I was wearing a rigid arch support. I could only bear to walk in them a few minutes every day. Gradually with practise I learned to walk 4 miles in them without pain. I likened that to learning to walk in my grief, and realized there would be a time when I could feel comfortable in my grief, and enjoy the healing in my body as it realigned from my feet to the top of my spine. But a realignment was indeed necessary. Another time I had surgery and incredible pain afterward. I purposely went inside as much physical pain as I could tollerate and then matched it up to my emotional pain. I kept doing this and as the physical pain eased and I healed, I brought the emotional pain along with it. I took emotional pain and wrote a story about something entirely different that would use that pain somewhere in it. I took those stories to the limit and could go back to them and read them over and over again. they would start out nice, then something very painful would happen, and there would be a happy ending where everything would work out exactly the way I wanted it to. In writing stories you can make anything happen you wish and they can be very theraputic. I chose to do most of my own work, and only relied on doctors and bishops for a very small part of it. But I like to do things "my" way, which boards like this allow.
>
> For what it's worth, I have found that pain is pain, loss is loss, grief is grief, mistakes are mistakes, and they all require similar steps in healing. Call this group therapy? It's kind of like "work's work", it doesn't matter what you choose or where you start first, work is work. All work gets you somewhere.
Posted by galkeepinon on September 9, 2003, at 20:39:43
In reply to Re: Being Alone » rayww, posted by Dena on September 9, 2003, at 15:15:55
>>>>I wouldn't be surprised if this is just one of the ways in which we're designed to heal.
I wouldn't either;)
>
> Shalom, Dena
Posted by rayww on September 10, 2003, at 10:06:24
In reply to Re: Being Alone » rayww, posted by Dena on September 9, 2003, at 15:15:55
Thankyou Dean and Bob, that was very kind. My long run-on para, running as I wrote, had some meaning? I should have taken more time with it.
Anyway, if anyone wants to pursue this, lets try to "name a pain" and see what we can do with it. Go ahead, Dena, name one thing that you are feeling the feeling of loss toward, or pain. It cannot be your recent miscarriage, or a long ago death. It must be something from the present, like a lost wallet, a painful sliver, a broken toe, anything like that in the present, that are you feeling right now, causing you to release an emotion, any emotion will do.
Posted by Dena on September 10, 2003, at 14:38:46
In reply to Re: Being Alone » Dena, posted by rayww on September 10, 2003, at 10:06:24
Ok, Ray - I have a current emotion (several emotions rolled into one) that I'll share (& it's hard to rule out the miscarriage, because I just came back from the memorial service we had for my baby).
You wrote: "Anyway, if anyone wants to pursue this, lets try to "name a pain" and see what we can do with it. Go ahead, Dena, name one thing that you are feeling the feeling of loss toward, or pain. It cannot be your recent miscarriage, or a long ago death. It must be something from the present, like a lost wallet, a painful sliver, a broken toe, anything like that in the present, that are you feeling right now, causing you to release an emotion, any emotion will do. "
I'm feeling confusion/fear/reluctance/conviction... My priest's wife (whom I spoke with right after the service) told me she's concerned about the amount of time I've been spending on the internet (including, probably especially, participating on these boards). Now, lately, since the miscarriage, I have spent a great deal of time reserching the causes of miscarriage, etc. But she's addressing a deeper problem: my obsessive-compulsive tendencies. I don't even want to go there. I've always known I've been rather OC, but I thought it has balanced out since I was healed from bulimia. But, it's true - once I get hooked into a project, I'm all there - I'm off & running, focused on it until I burn out (or somebody really gets my attention). It's moderated by the fact that I just have to care for my family & my home (& my art), but it is more of a problem than I want to look at.
Maybe I'll look Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder on the web & check it out - LOL! I'll be gone for hours!
My priest's wife (she's really my spiritual mentor), has suggested that I stop participating with this board. I've certainly entertained the thought myself, many times, especially when I've been blocked. But I'm feeling torn... I've made some connections with folks on this board that I'm reluctant to let go of.
Oy vey. I resist having yet another label put on me. But it rings of truth. Yuck!
So, that's my emotional contribution to this effort.
Any thoughts? Suggestions? Tips? Etc?
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Susan J on September 10, 2003, at 15:29:52
In reply to Re: Being Alone » rayww, posted by Dena on September 10, 2003, at 14:38:46
Dena,
> I'm feeling confusion/fear/reluctance/conviction... My priest's wife (whom I spoke with right after the service) told me she's concerned about the amount of time I've been spending on the internet (including, probably especially, participating on these boards). Now, lately, since the miscarriage, I have spent a great deal of time reserching the causes of miscarriage, etc. But she's addressing a deeper problem: my obsessive-compulsive tendencies. I don't even want to go there. I've always known I've been rather OC, but I thought it has balanced out since I was healed from bulimia.
<<I just read this and was wondering if your increased time on the Internet is all that bad, really? If you've just had a miscarriage, you much be feeling so many different, intense emotions, including MAJOR grief. We all cope differently. What's wrong with losing oneself in the Internet for a bit, or with trying to gain some control over the situation by researching causes, etc., so that you can do what you can to prevent similar tragedies in your life?I guess the question is, do *you* think surfing the net, or any other behavior you exhibit, is negatively impacting on your life or emotional well-being?
> My priest's wife (she's really my spiritual mentor), has suggested that I stop participating with this board. I've certainly entertained the thought myself, many times, especially when I've been blocked. But I'm feeling torn... I've made some connections with folks on this board that I'm reluctant to let go of.
<<I don't know you at all (and I'm fairly new), but what makes you want to leave these boards? I dunno, I've hit such a low point right now and feel like I've overburdened friends with my problems, that I really value the emotional support I get on these boards. I wouldn't want to see you, or anyone, lose that.I'm sorry about your miscarriage. A friend of mine just had one at 5 months, it was a molar pregnancy. Don't know if you've heard of that, but it also can cause cancer in the mother. She and her husband buried their baby just a few weeks ago. It's all heartbreaking, and you are in my prayers.
Best wishes,
Susan
>
> Oy vey. I resist having yet another label put on me. But it rings of truth. Yuck!
>
> So, that's my emotional contribution to this effort.
>
> Any thoughts? Suggestions? Tips? Etc?
>
> Shalom, Dena
>
>
Posted by Dena on September 10, 2003, at 18:50:46
In reply to Re: Being Alone » Dena, posted by Susan J on September 10, 2003, at 15:29:52
Hi Susan - nice to meet you!
Thank you for your thoughtful questions about my potential on-line-addiction.
You should probably know that I've got a lot on my plate, & she's (my priest's wife) concerned that I'm escaping into the internet, rather than dealing with the things/people which need my attention. Most of the other posters already know this (so skip this part if you've already heard my "bio"), but not only am I married to a high-maintenance man, but I have 7 children, & I homeschool them. This means I also have endless housework & laundry & cooking & schoolwork grading, yada, yada, yada. I'm also an artist, on the verge of being "discovered", & can hardly keep up with the custom orders I'm receiving. My husband is also a deacon in our church, so I'm part of the leadership there as well. My priest's wife is concerned because she sees that I'm stretched to the limit, & she's concerned that time spent on line is time robbed from those who need me. And yes, I realize that I'm a bit of an escape artist; at times I can let my life overwhelm me & I plunge into the nearest escape hatch I can find. The computer, because it's always there, always diverting, always tempting, can be a dangerous force for me if not kept in balance.
So...Perhaps I should limit myself to an hour a day? Is that even feasible? It can take me more than an hour just to wade through my emails!
Anywho, that's my story & I'm sticking to it!
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Heather66 on September 10, 2003, at 18:56:32
In reply to Re: Being Alone » Dena, posted by Susan J on September 10, 2003, at 15:29:52
I must admit I was not sure what you were talking about earlier until you asked the question specifically step by step to name a pain - one that is not the main one - and I can see there is a bit of value in that. Is the goal to then focus on the present? When the telemareketing calls never end and I get them calling over and over - am I supposed to focus on how angry I am that these people are calling my house and I have no control over it at all. Am I supposed to be extemely angry only at the telemarketer now and not be angry and depressed that my best friend is now gone for four years and my life is miserable without him?
Or if I take a physical pain - then am I supposed to focus all my energy on the fact that I stubbed my toe on the weight bench (that I never use) again. And then cry from the pain in my toe instead of cry about my ex-best friend and lover?
Maybe a couple more steps spelled out simply will help.
Posted by Susan J on September 11, 2003, at 8:33:59
In reply to Re: Being Alone » Susan J, posted by Dena on September 10, 2003, at 18:50:46
> Hi Susan - nice to meet you!
<<Nice to meet you, too. :-)> You should probably know that I've got a lot on my plate, & she's (my priest's wife) concerned that I'm escaping into the internet, rather than dealing with the things/people which need my attention.
<<Wow, it *does* sound like you've got tons going on. And since I'm childless and husbandless, I don't really feel qualified to offer advice on how you manage your time. 7 kids is a lot. The only thing I know is that you are valuable too, so you need to find some *me* time somewhere. Not too sure how that happens with 7 kids, though. :-)> So...Perhaps I should limit myself to an hour a day? Is that even feasible? It can take me more than an hour just to wade through my emails!
<<Yeah, I know the feeling. The Internet *is* a bit addictive. Have you ever tried limiting Internet use to only certain days of the week, rather than to a time period each day? I find my break on the weekends (I don't have a computer at home) really does me some good. I guess I'm on the Internet a little too much at work. We have a really busy season where I can't even think straight, much less surf the web, but this time of year is soooooo laid back, there's not much else to do *but* surf....Well, sorry I don't have much to offer, here, but I wish you luck. Sounds like you have a wonderful support network and people who really care about you. That's great!
Take care,
Susan
Posted by rayww on September 11, 2003, at 16:14:30
In reply to Re: Being Alone, posted by Heather66 on September 10, 2003, at 18:56:32
> I must admit I was not sure what you were talking about earlier until you asked the question specifically step by step to name a pain - one that is not the main one - and I can see there is a bit of value in that. Is the goal to then focus on the present?
In my own experience, I knew I had deep pain but I couldn't identify where it was coming from. It seemed to be linked to my father's death some 30 years earlier. My emotions seemed to be doing cartwheels too, feeling opposite to what I should. I had to find my emotions and straighten them out, and stop disassociating myself from them.
>>>>When the telemareketing calls never end and I get them calling over and over - am I supposed to focus on how angry I am that these people are calling my house and I have no control over it at all.
<<OK think about this one. How much anger should a telemarketer really deserve? A two minute phone call? A person you have never met?
>>>Am I supposed to be extemely angry only at the telemarketer now and not be angry and depressed that my best friend is now gone for four years and my life is miserable without him?
Your "extreme" anger is rooted in your best friend loss, and if this telemarketer opens the conduit to your deep pain, it's gonna rain. Your friend loss may likely be rooted to an even earlier one. Try to recal your earliest memory of a similar "emotion". As a child, a lost toy or puppy might have taught you how to deal with or not deal with loss. Ruts form even in the womb.
>
> Or if I take a physical pain - then am I supposed to focus all my energy on the fact that I stubbed my toe on the weight bench (that I never use) again. And then cry from the pain in my toe instead of cry about my ex-best friend and lover?
Again, the pain conduit is opened, and you are going to cry about your friend, even though you think you are just sad about your broken toe. It takes focus to lay down, put your hand over your heart or someplace to make a connection to yourself, as it helps you remember not to leave (dissasociate) and channel the painful loss thoughts. Make a connection betwen your broken toe, which is going to hurt for a long time, but will get better, and the pain you feel for your lost friend. Now, make yourself feel that pain for your friend. Rest with it as long as you can, forcing all your thoughts inside. Make sure you don't look at this from the outside of your body. Close your eyes. While feeling and pressing on the pain look at the bright light inside your eyes and try to love yourself. It helps if you have a love-yourself image from your first recollection of love as a child that you can cling to (pet, doll, toy, etc) Now, rest there, press on that painful emotion for as long as you can. Just as when you massage a knot out of your back, massaging your emotions like this will ease this pain too.Self pity comes from standing on the outside looking at ourself, and it makes us vulnerable. Feeling sorry for our situation is not the same as feeling our situation.
>
> Maybe a couple more steps spelled out simply will help.There's a couple.
This is about healing past pain using present circumstances to reach it.
Posted by Heather66 on September 11, 2003, at 20:37:31
In reply to Re: Being Alone » Heather66, posted by rayww on September 11, 2003, at 16:14:30
Your comments are interesting. I need to think about what you said for awhile. Figure it out.
This is the end of the thread.
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