Posted by muffled on November 8, 2010, at 15:30:11
In reply to Re: realistic possibilities, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2010, at 4:21:11
> > I really don't like it when you say things like the above. It sounds to me like you are putting the sole responsibility for blocks on those who are in danger of being blocked and the community rather than facing up to the substantial role that you play
> >
> > alexandra_k
>
> > I still maintain that PsychoBabble is therapeutic, in a funny, laid-back kind of way, and it is this that distinguishes it from other sites, and what brings blocked posters back after even very long blocks.
> >
> > vwoolf
>
> > The members of the group grew stronger and closer by going THROUGH stuff, not by avoiding it. ... Most of all, there was love - unconditional love.
> >
> > I'm talking about REAL safety where members would (and did) bend over backwards to help another member.
> >
> > ron1953
>
> > This is not 'OUR' site as posters, but FULLY and completely BOB's site.
> > I feel UTTERLY POWERLESS on this site.
> > All he seems to care about is *numbers*, not us as individuals. ... He did not care that MANY very capeable long term posters left. He just didn't care.
> >
> > muffled
>
> > I don't think I've ever been in a group of people where so many people who have chosen not to remain part of the group, still remain a part of the group for purposes of telling people how they no longer wish to be part of the group.
> >
> > I have, in the past, proposed that Dr. Bob reserve participation on the Administrative board to those who are actively posting, on topic, on other boards. But he has rejected that idea, and prefers to allow things as they are. He apparently feels that criticisms of Babble, even if unaccompanied by other posting, are supportive to the community.
> >
> > Dinah
>
> > I often feel ... drained by the undercurrent of what seems to me to be self-destructive negativity on the site.
> >
> > vwoolf
>
> > So, I have scars on my leg to show the punishment I took for being 'bad'. Cuz I must have been bad to get banished like that.
> > I liken that block to me as a kid playfully saying f*rt to a parent and them backslapping me into a wall and then telling me I could not speak to my main support friends for a week. NO DISCUSSION.
> > WAY OVERKILL.
> > its just not safe here. Its just not.
>
> > Are you willing to admit you were wrong bout some what you did?
> >
> > muffled
>
> I feel criticisms aren't necessarily "supportive", but can sometimes help us understand what's going on and be valuable in that way. Pondering the above clues, I imagine a hypothetical poster X:*I think we need to LOOK at things in order to effect change, and when the other person seems to not be able/willing to 'hear' what is being said, well than ya, that is frustrating and SAD.
> X sees themselves as a powerless victim and me as an uncaring persecutor. Of course I do have power. I do play a "substantial role" in blocks. But I'm not the only one with power. X has the power to bend over backward to help other posters. X also has the power to get themselves blocked. X uses the latter power, repeatedly, which seems self-destructive.*Well, if I were X, I'd see it differently. Yes, I feel powerless to change this place, absolutely. I don't neccessarily consider Bob the uncaring persecutor, I kinda morwe think of him as the very misguided one. Yes, Bob, you play MOST of the role in blocks. Often we here don't even *understand* what the fr*g your reasoning is....and sometimes there's warnings, and sometimes not....
I can get myself blocked, but oftimes people don't even understand WHY they are being blocked, and they can't prevent what they don't understand.
And esp on Admin, people are trying to stand up for change, for what they strongly beleive to be a way to make this a better place for ALL. And I am assuming that tey are intelligent people. And if they have recieved a warning, then they know they have somehow run afoul of the 'system', and I don't want to interfere with what they are trying to prove. They KNOW what to do, but they CHOOSE not to, often because ultimately they feel what they have done SHOULDN'T be wrong in a more acceptable system. Maybe they are trying in their frustration to show just how silly it is.
Yes, it is self destructive, but they are doing it in their desperation to TRY and effect change and to warn others of how this place REALLY is.(UNPREDICTABLE). They are choosing to sacrifice in order to help others. And I respect that.
We were a community that cared foir each other, which is also another reason blocks were so awful, cuz it hard to see your homeys hurt :( and to be so helpless to help them when it happens. Blocking is a BIG DEAL to many.
> What brings X back after even a very long block? Maybe my unconditional love (blocked posters are always welcome back). But it's not completely unconditional. That would be safe for them, but would require me to give up my power to choose whom to love.* I think there can be a variety of reasons they come back. Eternal hope that things will change. Anger at Bob for being so cruel. A wish to warn others. And mostly, a strong desire to back with their support people.
"your power to choose who to love".....love word aside, I myself choose to care for all as much as I am able. I DON'T CHOOSE this, its just the way I am built. I don't 'choose' who to care for, I just care, for all. I am assuming that the majority of us, even the most prickly, just want caring, to be accepted. And thats what used to be found here for the most part. Except for Bob and his blocks. Sometimes comming out of the blue :( It seems babblers are often willing to accept others faux pas, but not Bob. Nope, screw up and be blocked. Not accepted, not nutured, but banished. And if you have struggles, then you get banished for long periods of time. I cannot see this as supportive in ANY way, only as harmful. To the banned one, and to their friends.
Bob, I don't want your love, I would just want to feel accepted by you. But I don't, its very conditional. You accept 'some' of me, but not all of me. Thats not theraputic...
> Does that scenario resonate with any of you? It reminds me again of shame and guilt:
>
> > Shame ... comes to you as a feeling so deep and so incapable of your getting a grasp on it that it seems there is nothing you can do.
> >
> > guilt is one of the great inventions of nature. For mature guilt lets you know what is unacceptable, and offers you opportunity to do something about it. ... worth can be defined by realistic possibilities, not by the un-focused and "hidden" demands of shame-making expectations.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/958778.html
>
> I've been wrong (for example, about the original Facebook/Twitter buttons) and used my power to do something about it (make them opt-out). Some blocks may be overkill, but I've never left a scar on anyone's leg. X isn't safe anywhere as long as they carry shame around inside them.*I am glad you made a concession there, but many people got hurt along the way. If you'd just listened/HEARD, from the start....:(
So, YOU DO feel some blocks are overkill???? Then why do you continue despite the fact that so many tell you that they are HARMFUL????????????????
Bob, you left a scar on my leg as surely as if you wielded the knife yourself. Maybe the SI is an innapropriate thing, but this is a mental health site and many people with MH issues have poor ways of coping. Thats why we go to T, to learn better ones. It was DIRECTLY due to my response to your overkill and very surprizing actions. You need to take responsibility for your actions cuz they DO HURT people. If your action had been less odd, then I likely would have not had such a strong reaction. It was just SO unexpected, just when I had been comming to start to trust you some.(I no longer trust you). You have power and that is a huge responsibility and should be handled with the help of the many wise people you have here. Not on your own.
> Unconditional love from me: unrealistic. 9 realistic possibilities:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101014/msgs/968845.html
>
> I hope X -- with the help of others -- chooses wisely.
>
> Bob* I choose to keep working with my T to achieve better coherence and coping skills. At this point, I choose NOT to participate on Babble, other than here because I do not feel this is a safe site to post on. I don't even moderately trust Bob to havr my best interests at heart, only his vision of babble.
I choose to continue to think the best of people unless proven otherwise.
Mostly, I am just sad.
poster:muffled
thread:965628
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101014/msgs/969246.html