![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Penny on February 4, 2004, at 15:31:52
How do you do it?
As I've said before, I don't date. I've been on a handful (maybe) of dates, but, for the most part, I don't date.
And I'm pretty darn close to convincing myself that maybe, just maybe, I don't even care if I date or not. Or if I ever get married. Or ever have children. And so on.
But deep down, I know that's not true. Because even if I never marry (and I know it's not the end-all and be-all of life), I do want to have kids, but I don't want to have kids when I've never overcome this paralyzing fear I have of being involved with someone. Of opening up to someone. Of actually accepting that maybe (and I can't even believe I'm going to write this) someone might be (gasp) attracted to me.
And I know - I KNOW - that it all boils down to the fact that I just plain don't like myself. I don't like myself now, I didn't like myself when I was 10, I didn't like myself after losing 35 lbs. I just don't like myself. And, even worse, I don't love myself either.
My T claims this is changable. My former T did as well, and my pdoc seems to agree. So how, might I ask, is it changable? Because I'll be darned if I can get a straight answer from anyone. And no positive self-talk responses, please... (Actually, feel free to respond however - it's just that I don't really think repeating 'You're lovable' over and over to yourself works.)
Thanks, all.
P
Posted by pegasus on February 4, 2004, at 15:44:51
In reply to Learning to like yourself, posted by Penny on February 4, 2004, at 15:31:52
Well, I'm no expert here, but maybe one first step is to notice the negative self talk. I've struggled with this myself, and before therapy, I never even noticed the totally mean things I say to myself about myself. I mean, I'm willing to say things to myself that I would never say to another person. And it's been a little helpful to think that through - why does that seem ok to me?
I know the positive self talk seems so artificial, and stopping negative self talk is hard. But that has helped me some.
Frankly, another thing that has helped is meditating. It just helps me be more aware of what's going on in my mind, and recognizing what's the basic reality, versus what's all the reaction and judgement that I lay on top of it. If you're interested, I can recommend some resources for getting started.
-p
Posted by Karen_kay on February 4, 2004, at 15:58:20
In reply to Learning to like yourself, posted by Penny on February 4, 2004, at 15:31:52
Well, I know I used to hate myself during high school. And I mean hate. I took a break before college and I got away from my mother, who I overheard telling my father, "I hate her. I wish she'd never been born." (Now, she didn't say it to me, she didn't intend for me to hear it at all.) I grew up hating myself because I was surrounded by people who weren't equipped with effective coping skills, and instead took it out on their children.
When I moved out on my own, I realized, "Hey there's more to life than that crap!" I constantly told myself, "I look cute today." I would call my sister and tell her, "Hey, I look cute today." And he would answer, "I know you do!" And she meant it. Even if I didn't believe I was cute, I still told myself I was. And eventually I did believe it. It takes a while, but I started from believing I wasn't even human to thinking I'm absolutely gorgeous (most of the time).. I even tell my boyfriend, "Aren't you lucky to have such a cute girlfriend?" And he always answers, "Yes I am."
*I think that starting with a part that you like (AND EVERYONE loves a natural red head, believe me!!!!) and go from there.... Sorry, but the positive self-talk crap works..... It did for me. It takes a while, but the pay-off is worth it! And also having reinforcement helps as well.... I don't even mind my flaws anymore. I think they kind of add character. Sure, I complain about them, but I'm a complainer. Take after my mother (who I LOVE dearly), you know :)
I'm sure you're beautiful. If your looks are anything like your intelligence or sincerity, then I'm amazed by your beauty!
Also, a tip. I always sit up straight. I walk in a straight line and wiggle my butt (sounds silly, I know, but it helps make me feel sexy, it really does!!), with my chin up. I accept the fact that I'm clumsy, because it adds to my uniqueness. ****Most importantly, do the things that make you feel beautiful! And accept the things that make you unique. Don't try to change them. That's what makes a person beautiful, the fact that we are all unique!
Posted by Dinah on February 4, 2004, at 17:52:23
In reply to Learning to like yourself, posted by Penny on February 4, 2004, at 15:31:52
Penny, I hate to say this, but it calls for acting "as if". If you act "as if" you like yourself for long enough, you'll likely get enough positive feedback that you might just possibly actually believe it.
Or... You can think of the things you actually can say to yourself that are true. One thing about EMDR lady was that she overstretched on the positive cognitions. I might not believe that I am beautiful, but I *could* believe that I was earnestly effortful and quizzical, as Tabitha said.
Maybe you could work with your therapist for a list of believable nice things about yourself. I'll start with some things I like about you.
You have lovely red wavy hair.
You behave in a caring manner towards others.
You are well educated and write well.
You have an inquisitive mind.
You care about animals and treat them respectfully and lovingly.
I'm sure there are zillions others. And as you start believing the smaller good things about you, you can stretch a bit farther each time.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 4, 2004, at 23:29:30
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself, posted by Karen_kay on February 4, 2004, at 15:58:20
>Even if I didn't believe I was cute, I still told myself I was. And eventually I did believe it. It takes a while, but I started from believing I wasn't even human to thinking I'm absolutely gorgeous (most of the time).. I even tell my boyfriend, "Aren't you lucky to have such a cute girlfriend?" And he always answers, "Yes I am."
I love this approach. Can your boyfriend teach my husband to do this? I'm so glad this worked for you.
>
> Also, a tip. I always sit up straight. I walk in a straight line and wiggle my butt (sounds silly, I know, but it helps make me feel sexy, it really does!!), with my chin up. I accept the fact that I'm clumsy, because it adds to my uniqueness.That's right. Fake it til you make it!
****Most importantly, do the things that make you feel beautiful! And accept the things that make you unique. Don't try to change them. That's what makes a person beautiful, the fact that we are all unique!
You've come a long way baby, based on the beginning of your post. I'm happy for you. What you described about your parents really made me hurt for you. But by the end I was cheering you on.
You go! You are beautiful!
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on February 4, 2004, at 23:36:57
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » Penny, posted by Dinah on February 4, 2004, at 17:52:23
Pen,
I like Dinah's suggestions as well. I keep a file with positive things in it. Little notes from people that reinforced something I was proud of, good evaluations or comments from teachers or other important people. It's like my little ego boost folder. It reminds me that others found something good about me that also feels right to me. So I get reinforcement for feeling proud.I also love the idea of meditation, that pegasus suggested. It's a really good way to get to your core self.
What kind of therapy are you doing right now? If it is more CBT oriented, then noticing the negative and substituting more positive is a good approach. Actually, it's always good, regardless of your T's orientation. If your T is more psychodynamic, then you will learn to love yourself as you work through transference and break through defenses. As you discover your authentic, genuine self versus the one with the defenses, you will love that person. I guarantee you. Because it will be YOU! Something will just click.
A lot of people in this type of therapy get to a point where they are afraid of that true self they might discover. This is because it has been hidden for so long. The unknown is scary. But others can already see, at least I can here on PB, that you are a beautiful person. And when you find that self as well, you will be awed by and proud of your beauty!
gg
Posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 8:14:03
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » Karen_kay, posted by gardenergirl on February 4, 2004, at 23:29:30
> Fake it til you make it!
GG,No offense - but pleeeeze don't make this your therapy mantra! When I was in a hospital outpatient program summer before last, "Fake it til you make it!" was the T's favorite saying! And it drove me crazy!
I guess it might work for some - but when I have, in the past, faked it, it has made me feel worse. Not that we should all wallow in self-pity, but...oh I don't know.
anyway...I just found it a bit amusing that you would include that when I heard it non-stop for four weeks summer before last. Now, the T that led my group was wonderful - reminded me a great deal of my personal T, actually, so I really liked her. And the "Fake it til you make it!" saying has stuck in my head. argh...
:-b
P
Posted by gardenergirl on February 5, 2004, at 8:28:42
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » gardenergirl, posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 8:14:03
Penny,
That's funny about how it was the mantra there. I remember way back in family therapy when my brother was in rehab, we had a counselor we named "My Guess is, Marcie" as she always said "my guess is..." before she would make a comment. Drove us crazy!I actually am not fond of that statement (I'll spare your ears this time). I heard another T use it and thought, "vomit", but sometimes it slips out when it seems like it fits.
Don't worry. It is nowhere near becoming my mantra. Although I don't know if I have one yet. Perhaps something about sensitivity? I'll have to work on my T shtick.
gg
Posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 8:33:47
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself, posted by pegasus on February 4, 2004, at 15:44:51
> Frankly, another thing that has helped is meditating. It just helps me be more aware of what's going on in my mind, and recognizing what's the basic reality, versus what's all the reaction and judgement that I lay on top of it. If you're interested, I can recommend some resources for getting started.
Actually, that would be great! I'm definitely interested in learning more.
Thanks!
P
Posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 8:35:33
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself, posted by Karen_kay on February 4, 2004, at 15:58:20
> ****Most importantly, do the things that make you feel beautiful!
I guess that's the problem - I don't know of anything that makes me feel beautiful. I don't feel comfortable in my own skin. I go out of my way to avoid drawing attention to myself. I would rather remain a shadow - it's more comfortable.
P
Posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 8:37:44
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » Penny, posted by Dinah on February 4, 2004, at 17:52:23
Dinah,
Thank you so much. Have I told you lately how wonderful you are?
I'm taking your post with me to therapy today - I hope you don't mind?
P
Posted by Dinah on February 5, 2004, at 8:46:10
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » Dinah, posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 8:37:44
Posted by Angielala on February 5, 2004, at 9:23:01
In reply to Learning to like yourself, posted by Penny on February 4, 2004, at 15:31:52
Penny, I want to know too. Let me tell you- I have found the love of my life and have great friends, and I STILL can't figure out how to like myself. I still fear that I never will like myself. I don't understand why other people like me so much... I wanna know how to like, maybe even love, myself too. :(
> How do you do it?
>
> As I've said before, I don't date. I've been on a handful (maybe) of dates, but, for the most part, I don't date.
>
> And I'm pretty darn close to convincing myself that maybe, just maybe, I don't even care if I date or not. Or if I ever get married. Or ever have children. And so on.
>
> But deep down, I know that's not true. Because even if I never marry (and I know it's not the end-all and be-all of life), I do want to have kids, but I don't want to have kids when I've never overcome this paralyzing fear I have of being involved with someone. Of opening up to someone. Of actually accepting that maybe (and I can't even believe I'm going to write this) someone might be (gasp) attracted to me.
>
> And I know - I KNOW - that it all boils down to the fact that I just plain don't like myself. I don't like myself now, I didn't like myself when I was 10, I didn't like myself after losing 35 lbs. I just don't like myself. And, even worse, I don't love myself either.
>
> My T claims this is changable. My former T did as well, and my pdoc seems to agree. So how, might I ask, is it changable? Because I'll be darned if I can get a straight answer from anyone. And no positive self-talk responses, please... (Actually, feel free to respond however - it's just that I don't really think repeating 'You're lovable' over and over to yourself works.)
>
> Thanks, all.
> P
Posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 9:25:16
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself, posted by gardenergirl on February 4, 2004, at 23:36:57
I don't think my therapy leans really one way or the other - my T does whatever works at the time, whatever is suitable. She touches a little on recognizing cognitive distortions and thought changing, but only a little. We work some on childhood issues, some on day-to-day stuff, some on body image, and so on. I think eclectic would best describe her...
You said something in another post about being raised in an invalidating household with narcissistic parents - that pretty much sums up my childhood. My parents have been married for 28 years. They love each other very much, but my mom is codependent and my dad is highly narcissistic and they both smoked pot when I was growing up and, in general, I was the 'adult' in the household. Oddly enough, in the past year or so, my parents seem to have changed a great deal - they have become more caring, concerned and supportive. And it's weird, but I take everything with a grain of salt. It's nice to get support from them (finally!) but I still don't trust them much at all.
I never had a problem seeing myself as intelligent - school was always my safe haven - I was a 'teacher's pet', most of my teachers really liked me (a few didn't, of course). I was in chorus for years - so I knew I could sing, which was another of those good things about myself. So I guess it's not as though I didn't have things about myself I was proud of.
The problem is more of a physical one, I guess. I know that *most* people look pretty, well, average. And I suppose I fall into that category. And for the most part, like when I'm meeting people for, well, whatever reason - business, friendship, babysitting, whatever - I don't even think about it. I brush my hair, put on makeup, make sure my breath smells nice and go. Might spritz on a little bath & body works stuff (sweet pea, anyone?), might put on a little jewelry, though rarely. I'm not a fashion queen, but I can dress appropriately for various occasions. And, as I said in another post somewhere on the board, I know I'm not horribly offensive looking or anything - people react to me pretty much the way they react to anyone else. I guess anyway. I don't get stares, I don't get children who run screaming from the room, I don't get strange whispers, and so on.
However - when it's a matter of looking to meet someone, of the opposite sex, to date, all of a sudden, I feel horribly ugly, terribly incompetent, and the list goes on. I *know* it's not all about looks. And the guys that I have been interested in are usually not the best looking or whatever - I actually really like 'smart' guys over 'really cute' guys. But I can't possibly fathom how any man could ever be physically attracted to me. The thought repulses me! I've only been on a handful of dates, with three different guys, and the third guy was the only one I found attractive. But I kept asking myself, "Why is he out with me?" I can understand, I guess, why anyone might want to be friends with me. I don't suppose I'm such a terrible person - I am generally easy to get along with. But I can't understand why any man would want to date me. And, if he did, I do nothing but think, "he could be with someone better," or "I'm not ____ enough (pretty, fun, sexy, etc.)" or "He must be completely turned off by my appearance, so...there must be something else going on".
I know that, chances are, none of those things would be true. I know that, chances are, no one is secretly thinking, "What is he doing with *her*?" or, even if they are, it's a fleeting thought and then they go back to their own issues. I know those things. Yet, I feel, and it's ingrained in me pretty well, that it's not possible for any man who is 'normal' to want to be romantically involved with *me*, and any man who would want to be romantically involved with *me* must be desperate - and I don't want to be someone he is 'settling' for.
Sorry for going on and on...
I know this probably makes no sense...
P
Posted by Tootercat on February 5, 2004, at 10:55:22
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » gardenergirl, posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 9:25:16
Geez, I feel right at home. I too have had difficulties with the concept of actually liking myself and *God forbid* loving myself. People will tell me what a kind compassionate loving person I am and I think "Well I've got you fooled". I know I'm smart and clever and witty as those are the traits that have helped me "survive" my life.
Little by little I am moving away from being so critical and angry and that is helping. I am also trying to believe more in "progress" not "perfection" and that allows me to see some of the good things which I haven't because I am not "perfect" at any of them. I never believed I was pretty because nobody was climbing mountains or crawling over broken glass to get to me like they would Tara Banks. I am realizing that I am pretty and that it is something that comes from the inside not the outside. Some days are prettier than others. :)Ultimately it seems that the more I feel comfortable with ACCEPTING myself and all of my traits the easier it becomes to be comfortable in my own skin and to love myself. I may not always like myself but do we always like even our best friends? No but we accept them. Does any of this make sense?
I don't really know any of you as you seem to know each other as I am a relative "new kid on the block" but I can certainly identify with you and I really appreciate the openess and honesty with which you share your experiences.
Hugs,
Tooter
Posted by Angielala on February 5, 2004, at 11:06:24
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself, posted by Tootercat on February 5, 2004, at 10:55:22
Toots- you may feel like the new kid on the block, but you aren't- you feel like an old friend :) You have an excellent way to view this... I never thought to focus on progress instead of perfection.. such a simple thing, yet it's never crossed my mind. Thank you for a new outlook |=8^D
> Geez, I feel right at home. I too have had difficulties with the concept of actually liking myself and *God forbid* loving myself. People will tell me what a kind compassionate loving person I am and I think "Well I've got you fooled". I know I'm smart and clever and witty as those are the traits that have helped me "survive" my life.
> Little by little I am moving away from being so critical and angry and that is helping. I am also trying to believe more in "progress" not "perfection" and that allows me to see some of the good things which I haven't because I am not "perfect" at any of them. I never believed I was pretty because nobody was climbing mountains or crawling over broken glass to get to me like they would Tara Banks. I am realizing that I am pretty and that it is something that comes from the inside not the outside. Some days are prettier than others. :)
>
> Ultimately it seems that the more I feel comfortable with ACCEPTING myself and all of my traits the easier it becomes to be comfortable in my own skin and to love myself. I may not always like myself but do we always like even our best friends? No but we accept them. Does any of this make sense?
>
> I don't really know any of you as you seem to know each other as I am a relative "new kid on the block" but I can certainly identify with you and I really appreciate the openess and honesty with which you share your experiences.
>
> Hugs,
>
> Tooter
>
Posted by pegasus on February 5, 2004, at 12:00:11
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » pegasus, posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 8:33:47
Well, again, I've only just started this myself. But I've found getting instructions in a verbal way to be really helpful. Jack Kornfield, who is a pretty respected meditation teacher, has a CD called Beginning to Meditate. He's Buddhist, but the CD isn't about becoming Buddhist. It's just about meditating. I gave it to my mom (a Catholic) for Xmas last year, and she loved it. So that's a good place to start. You can buy the CD on Amazon or directly from Sounds True (the publisher). Jack Kornfield also did this really interesting longer audio program called The Roots of Buddhist Psychology that I found incredibly helpful. Again, I'm not a Buddhist, but a lot of Buddhist psychology makes a ton of sense to me, and I've found it to be - really - even more helpful than therapy.
Aside form that, in a lot of cities there are meditation centers that offer instruction. Shambhala is a big organization that has centers in many cities. They have a "secular" meditation instruction program as well. I've done a few of their weekends, and they were pretty good, although very scary (to me) at first just because it was so different than anything I'd done before, and there were all these other people that I was worried I wouldn't have anything in common with. But it turned out ok.
I hope that helps. Feel free to ask any questions, and I can try to answer.
-p
Posted by Karen_kay on February 5, 2004, at 16:19:08
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » Karen_kay, posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 8:35:33
You can't tell me there's not one thing you like about yourself..... Your beautiful red hair!!!!! Start with that.. If you can afford it, go and get your hair done. Now, every girl who has had their hair done KNOWS how great you feel walking out of the salon with your head held high, knowing you look absolutely beautiful. Start small. Focus on one thing at a time. Start with one thing you like.. Once you feel comfortable *knowing* and actually knowing that you have one beautiful asset about you, then move on to something else...
So, you could start with getting your hair cut or just styled and after you feel comfortable knowing that you have beautiful hair move on to your wonderfully shaped eyes, or your cute little nose, or another feature that you really like.... That's how I did it... I really can't tell you that I did it by meditating or through religion. I started by accepting a feature that I liked and once I learned how beautiful that feature was, I moved on to another. Once I ran out of features that I liked, I started with ones that I didn't hate. Take for instance the fact that I have chicken legs. Now, I can say at least I don't have meaty legs. Or at least I had the cute nick name Flamingo when I was younger. I started with things that I liked, which helped boost my self esteem. Then I accepted the things that I didn't like and found ways to turn them into positives. And I didn't even need a therapist to tell me that. I did it all on my own.
You should realize just how beautiful you are. With gorgeous red hair like that, you should be the center of attention, not lurking in the shadows hun. Oh, what I would do for hair like that...... You really couldn't imagine..
Posted by Karen_kay on February 5, 2004, at 16:22:41
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » Penny, posted by Dinah on February 4, 2004, at 17:52:23
Oh Dinah, you need to make me a list too :)
That was so sweet! And SO very accurate!
Posted by Dinah on February 5, 2004, at 20:04:29
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on February 5, 2004, at 16:22:41
But Karen, I did! I'll have to try to find the link. :)
Posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 3:05:27
In reply to Learning to like yourself, posted by Penny on February 4, 2004, at 15:31:52
> How do you do it?
I'm not sure, but thats a really good question. I would love to know the answer. I have read about a ton of self-help articles that advise us to repeat over and over, "I am worthy of praise, love, and attention." The idea here, is that if you say it and think it enough times you will start to believe it... well, it hasn't worked for me. This is where I start to think about Rod (or Bowtie) because he's always talking about learning to feel like, "enough." That is how I really want to be able to feel. I know that there are some things about myself that I just plain do not like, and may never like, but to feel enough would be so comforting. So how do we go about this? I've been thinking about that question for a long time. I think the first step is to pinpoint exactly what it is that we don't like and why (or how it came to be). That seems like the hardest part. I know for me, it's my body. I am *constantly* comparing myself to every girl that walks by me, (Is she prettier than me, better figure, etc.). I try to correct my thinking and think to myself that I have good points too. A lot of people tell me I'm pretty, but it doesn't seem to matter how many people say it, I just don't believe it. I feel so ugly on the inside, not to mention tired and worn out. I don't like my personality. I feel like I'm selfish, self-centered, rude, etc. I feel like I never say the right thing. I'm starting to ramble...but bear with me. I think this is a question I will ask my therapist next week. Hopefully she will have a good answer for us. But the only problem is, she will start asking me about my body image and what exactly I don't like, and WORST of all the question, "What do you like?" I always feel compelled to give her some answer to that one, but I can't ever come up with anything. Ugh. Well, I let you know what happens.
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 3:25:10
In reply to Re: Learning to like yourself » gardenergirl, posted by Penny on February 5, 2004, at 9:25:16
> However - when it's a matter of looking to meet someone, of the opposite sex, to date, all of a sudden, I feel horribly ugly, terribly incompetent, and the list goes on. I *know* it's not all about looks. And the guys that I have been interested in are usually not the best looking or whatever - I actually really like 'smart' guys over 'really cute' guys. But I can't possibly fathom how any man could ever be physically attracted to me. The thought repulses me! I've only been on a handful of dates, with three different guys, and the third guy was the only one I found attractive. But I kept asking myself, "Why is he out with me?"
You have just described my feelings perfectly. Seriously. I can deal with comparing myself to other women, and I can even think that I am maybe cuter than someone else. BUT, when it comes to men, I can't see how they can be attracted to me in the least. And, honestly, when one of them tells me that they think I'm pretty or compliments me I am utterly shocked. I can't believe it and I don't know how to respond. And BTW, I am way more attracted to smart guys then cute guys. There's something really awesome about a guy who knows a little bit about everything... I love listening to my male teachers lecture... :)
Elle
Posted by Penny on February 7, 2004, at 15:07:28
In reply to Makes perfect sense to me » Penny, posted by Elle2021 on February 7, 2004, at 3:25:10
Yep - I've always had a thing for smart guys, and was always getting crushes on profs and TAs. There was this TA for my intro psych class when I was a sophomore...sigh...and my astronomy lab TA my freshman year... :-)
But they were all 'safe' guys - so I didn't have a problem being infatuated. And that's all it ever was - I knew it would never be reciprocal, and I never would have shared my feelings anyway!
I told my T pretty much what I posted in this thread on Thursday night. Of course, I waited until the end of the session to blurt it all out. I had told her some of it before, but I don't think I went into as much detail. When I finished, she closed her eyes...and I laughed, and then she opened them and said, "Well, THAT'S definitely on our agenda!" I said, "Well, that's what I want you to help me with - because I know that feeling like I am unworthy (for whatever reason) of being the object of someone's affection isn't a good thing."
I think she's going to have some interesting insight. I said that I felt like my former T touched on it a bit, but she tended to look more at the positive thinking exercises as the answer, but, while I think that has to be part of it, I don't think it's the thing that's going to fix my issues. My T agreed, she said, "Yes, it goes much deeper than that."
So, I think she gets it. Now, what will she tell me to do about it? I think therapy is about to get really interesting...
P
Posted by Dinah on February 7, 2004, at 15:12:20
In reply to Re: Makes perfect sense to me » Elle2021, posted by Penny on February 7, 2004, at 15:07:28
Penny, I'll bet that some pretty productive stuff will come of that discussion. And if it will help, email me and I'll send you a picture of my grandma and grandpa. To remind you that you don't have to be a supermodel to be beautiful to someone.
This is the end of the thread.
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