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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kid_A on October 25, 2001, at 11:34:14
(long) sorry......what do you do when you freak someone out by saying that you want to kill yourself if you loose their friendship, and then they pull away because of that... doesnt that seem like the wrong thing to do... in theory i can't question this person's judgement, i can't even fathom why someone would be reading this based on my wacked out message title, but hopefully somebody is... ive been consulting w/ my doctor over the fone, and these conversations i've had w/ my friend... we are still friends, but now it is in limited contact... and still when we see each other out (we usually have a blast) it is said to be still the same... but still, what i wanted the most was someone to talk to... unfortunately, as always, i've over judged our friendship, and though i think due to the complex dynamic of what has happened with this person and me over several months, i may have mutated, i think now that it is something totally different, and where i felt that i had a confidant, now it is more of a 'friend' in quotes...
i've done this before, talked to much to the point where people just can't take it anymore and they pull away, im smarter now and i keep my mouth shut, thats what i pay my f'ing therapist for... but i happened to be stupid and in the moment, i felt so bad that i wanted to kill myself, and when you feel that way you say it... im sure somebody understands that... weather you do it or not is no matter... its an ideation and we all have had them, its just the ammount that you express this to others, which i have learned, unless you are talking to someone who has had similar feelings or someone in a hospital, or the guy in the chair who gets 150.00 per 50 minutes to talk to you (thank you 15.00 copay).... its best to keep your moth shut... this little utterance basically protracted our friendship to a point that makes me feel horrible, even worse... so thats what i don't understand... she is doing it for herself i think... but in the end it makes me feel horrible...
been on the fone w/ pdoc... upped xanax lately per pdoc recomendation... just going day to day... it feels dead to loose a friend in the capacity that you can talk to them at all... basically they want to sever communications to a minimal level... maybe this is best for me too... basically i was told that i had overestimated our friendship to begin with, which i think may be true now, but i think it mutated over time... i was in love with them, and then love settled for friendship, i almost ruined a friendship over it as well, its a complicated triangle if you understand... my unadulterated desire out of control that brought me to this moment right now...
doc thinking of putting me on inderal, not too fond of that idea, id rather not get *more* depressed... ugh ugh ugh...! every time i get emotional on somebody i wind up pushing them away, i was in the middle of a nervous breakdown... you say stupid things in a nervous breakdown... you sometimes believe the words afterwards...
loss loss loss... i hate it.
Posted by kid_A on October 25, 2001, at 11:36:25
In reply to 2nd bad vilbel- 2nd scepe- 2nd scout- 2nd peng , posted by kid_A on October 25, 2001, at 11:34:14
Posted by Roo on October 25, 2001, at 12:11:03
In reply to 2nd bad vilbel- 2nd scepe- 2nd scout- 2nd peng , posted by kid_A on October 25, 2001, at 11:34:14
Kid--I don't really know what to say. I have definitely
felt that way--that I get too intense, start opening
up to another person...I feel like they give me signals
that they're open to me and who I am in all my vulnerability,
so I open up even more, and then I have felt, at times,
like I get rejected. It hurts REALLY bad. And it feels
humilating too--because I showed them who I was, and it's
like they looked and said "oh...get away..."...sooner or
later, though, I realize that it's their problem, not mine.
That I wasn't WRONG for sharing myself, that maybe this person
has their own issues that makes them unable to handle someone
else's vulnerability. It scares them. Sometimes it seems like
there's people who come along and you bond to them really quickly--
and reveal alot and then realize it was too much, too soon. I
had that happen with a co-worker. I had just started my
job and was in a really unhappy time in my life, and felt really
insecure about the job, and I felt really close to her and like
she would understand and so I confided in her, and cried, etc.
She later told me that she had felt I'd been unprofessional and
that I made her uncomfortable. It's understandable I guess. But
And I was embarrassed. But I stopped beating myself up about it, because
the more I learned about her, the more I learned she had very strong
issues herself about being emotionally open. She was a very guarded
person. Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with this....I just
know how you feel, and I've been there. With regarding suicide, I don't
know....I've been tempted to tell people sometimes that I feel like
killing myself, but I'm afraid to. I'm afriad they'll think I'm being
melodramatic or just trying to get attention. In a way I wish I
COULD be that open with someone, that trusting. I'm sorry that this
girl couldn't handle it. But you haven't done anything wrong.
Posted by susan C on October 25, 2001, at 14:59:48
In reply to 2nd bad vilbel- 2nd scepe- 2nd scout- 2nd peng , posted by kid_A on October 25, 2001, at 11:34:14
Ping back at ya:
oh, sorry kida I had a wonderful babble going on about reflections of fifty years and how there are ranges of sensitivity and how you aren't wrong and some people just aren't like us and how that is why i come here because I can be sure nomatter how i feel, everyone here knows ...then dr-bob made me take the test...i think it is all a plot, all part of his research to make sure you if you want to participate atleast know how to use or navigate a little of the computer. My brain is dead, time for a nap...don't think about 'doing anything' I want a copy of your book and not post humonously.
I am out here in left field for ya
mouse with a baseball mitt
susan C
Posted by dreamer on October 25, 2001, at 15:45:36
In reply to Re: 2nd bad vilbel- 2nd scepe- 2nd scout- 2nd peng , posted by Roo on October 25, 2001, at 12:11:03
Hi K,
My posts lately brief but I am kinda going thru same -opening up my whole life/sex/dreams and the universe in 40 mins luckily I aint paying.
I usually ask "can I bore you for a while to psycho.....anyway ive fallen ALOT and stalking i just about resist.
What I'm trying to say I think is that I may be reading wrong signals but when im higher than god I can't stop. Suppose I'll be posting here of my misjudgement later.
I once threatened suicide on one obsession -long ago- he turned round and said well go ahead and do it then. Pissed me off. Well we're now occasional friends and I moved on to a fresh prey.
Real love between two only xperienced by so few , love yourself and meds help with that.Be save.....dreamer by name/nature.
Posted by kid_A on October 25, 2001, at 16:59:04
In reply to Re: 2nd bad vilbel- 2nd scepe- 2nd scout- 2nd peng , posted by dreamer on October 25, 2001, at 15:45:36
my problem is that i rely on other people for my own strength... strength that should ultimately come from me... i let it slip that i 'need' people, as soon as casuals feel that they are 'neeeded' they feel crowded... they don't know how to react... nobody casual wants to feel necisary to someone elses happiness... but truth be told, i enjoy all my friends, they contribute to my happiness... its just some i enjoy more than others...the fact is, in life you have to play the game with the cards held close to your chest, and make no moves... i miss the way she could shriek in delight at a song she loved, or the positive criticism she gave my writing... when you find special things about someone, you tend to put them on a throne, especially if you were at once (once, still, perhaps), in love w/ them...
finding this board has been a great outlet for me, and there is so little that you need to 'explain'... so many people here know how it feels, and im so gratefull there are people who can understand....
thanks everyone for the responses... pdoc upped my xanax dosage today after mental breakdown... hooray... nothing like xanax to round of the edges of a saber pawed porcupine...
...
...to be in your eyes...
to be in your eyes...
to be in your eyes...
Posted by jay on October 25, 2001, at 19:31:29
In reply to 2nd bad vilbel- 2nd scepe- 2nd scout- 2nd peng , posted by kid_A on October 25, 2001, at 11:34:14
oyyyy..ooyy..man sounds like the last 25 friendships I have had.. heh. OK..one of the first things you want to do is get yourself *safe*. Is that possible...can you even call somebody..or even a hotline number to have someone to talk to?
On one hand it seems like they are doing what is for their own good...but they are doing nothing for you... but on the other it makes us feel even *worse*...horrible..and creates a whole new set of anxieties, fears, sadness...etc..etc.
I find the anxiety *debilitating*..it's like I have been in a car accident and am crippled...emotionaly crippled. What meds are you on..and has/would you and your pdoc consider a low dose of one of the new atypical antipsychotics? In particular, they work excellent with an antidepressant.
Your emtions are on high-speed...and when we get to that point, we need something first to knock that fever-pitch anxiety and pain down a notch or two. Yes, taking more Xanax will help, but I have found it to be only quite temporary.
Can you get yourself somewhere safe? That is *really* so important right now. Please...
Sincerely,
Jay
>
> (long) sorry......
>
> what do you do when you freak someone out by saying that you want to kill yourself if you loose their friendship, and then they pull away because of that... doesnt that seem like the wrong thing to do... in theory i can't question this person's judgement, i can't even fathom why someone would be reading this based on my wacked out message title, but hopefully somebody is... ive been consulting w/ my doctor over the fone, and these conversations i've had w/ my friend... we are still friends, but now it is in limited contact... and still when we see each other out (we usually have a blast) it is said to be still the same... but still, what i wanted the most was someone to talk to... unfortunately, as always, i've over judged our friendship, and though i think due to the complex dynamic of what has happened with this person and me over several months, i may have mutated, i think now that it is something totally different, and where i felt that i had a confidant, now it is more of a 'friend' in quotes...
>
> i've done this before, talked to much to the point where people just can't take it anymore and they pull away, im smarter now and i keep my mouth shut, thats what i pay my f'ing therapist for... but i happened to be stupid and in the moment, i felt so bad that i wanted to kill myself, and when you feel that way you say it... im sure somebody understands that... weather you do it or not is no matter... its an ideation and we all have had them, its just the ammount that you express this to others, which i have learned, unless you are talking to someone who has had similar feelings or someone in a hospital, or the guy in the chair who gets 150.00 per 50 minutes to talk to you (thank you 15.00 copay).... its best to keep your moth shut... this little utterance basically protracted our friendship to a point that makes me feel horrible, even worse... so thats what i don't understand... she is doing it for herself i think... but in the end it makes me feel horrible...
>
> been on the fone w/ pdoc... upped xanax lately per pdoc recomendation... just going day to day... it feels dead to loose a friend in the capacity that you can talk to them at all... basically they want to sever communications to a minimal level... maybe this is best for me too... basically i was told that i had overestimated our friendship to begin with, which i think may be true now, but i think it mutated over time... i was in love with them, and then love settled for friendship, i almost ruined a friendship over it as well, its a complicated triangle if you understand... my unadulterated desire out of control that brought me to this moment right now...
>
> doc thinking of putting me on inderal, not too fond of that idea, id rather not get *more* depressed... ugh ugh ugh...! every time i get emotional on somebody i wind up pushing them away, i was in the middle of a nervous breakdown... you say stupid things in a nervous breakdown... you sometimes believe the words afterwards...
>
> loss loss loss... i hate it.
Posted by kid_A on October 26, 2001, at 9:08:33
In reply to Re: 2nd bad vilbel- 2nd scepe- 2nd scout- 2nd peng » kid_A, posted by jay on October 25, 2001, at 19:31:29
yes. at least i do have some people to talk to... money is a little tight right now so im not going to my therapist for a few weeks, but there are people that i know who are familiar with all the characters involved in the plot... talked to them yesterday and im feeling better... in fact this person i talked to was also 'dumped' by the same friend... for a little more extreme a reason, but nonetheless we are both a little on the out with the same person in question...what meds do i take... the laundry list is:
(effexor) 112.5 - 150mg per day
(geodon) 20mg at night
(ambien) 5/10mg as needed at night
(remeron) 15mg only sometimes...
(xanax) .75mg three times dailyi really did find the geodon to be most helpfull in flatening out the spikes of my emotions... right now im not feeling utterly depressed, and im trying not to think of all the things that happened this week.
yes, i think they are doing whats right for them, but at the same time it feels like im being pushed away, or moreso, it feels like i was never close to begin with... its a really complicated web anyways, but they were someone i felt lullled into a sense of understanding with... i think that all changed after one dramatic event that occured much prior to this... there was kissing, which was wrong, considering she was going out w/ my best friend... from that point its all been a rollercoaster of up and down, friends, not friends... i grew so attached to her, i thought she could answer some of my questions... in the end i realised that she had changed from the person she was, to somewhat of a casual aquaintance... it's hard to let go of someone that you loved, then just were happy to be friends with... plus there is guilt and treachery and mending bad feelings w/ your best friend who you betrayed... its what originally threw me into meds, and what recently has made me up my dose of xanax per day...
i've got a big weekend comming up, a friend's going away party combined w/ a friend's birthday party, at the bar i dj at... i'll have fun, i may even see her out... im looking forward with a open heart, and clear eyes... im not going to try to carry that dog inside me that keeps snapping snapping at my heart...
dogboy
woof woof
Posted by Marie1 on October 27, 2001, at 9:08:03
In reply to Re: 2nd bad vilbel- 2nd scepe- 2nd scout- 2nd peng » jay, posted by kid_A on October 26, 2001, at 9:08:33
Kid,
You know, sometimes people get freaked out by others expressing their vulnerability, maybe because they can relate? Anyway, it doesn't matter why, it could be that your friend needs some time to sit back and assess your friendship. She may realize she misses you as much as you miss her. Hope it all works our for you.Marie
>
> yes. at least i do have some people to talk to... money is a little tight right now so im not going to my therapist for a few weeks, but there are people that i know who are familiar with all the characters involved in the plot... talked to them yesterday and im feeling better... in fact this person i talked to was also 'dumped' by the same friend... for a little more extreme a reason, but nonetheless we are both a little on the out with the same person in question...
>
> what meds do i take... the laundry list is:
>
> (effexor) 112.5 - 150mg per day
> (geodon) 20mg at night
> (ambien) 5/10mg as needed at night
> (remeron) 15mg only sometimes...
> (xanax) .75mg three times daily
>
> i really did find the geodon to be most helpfull in flatening out the spikes of my emotions... right now im not feeling utterly depressed, and im trying not to think of all the things that happened this week.
>
> yes, i think they are doing whats right for them, but at the same time it feels like im being pushed away, or moreso, it feels like i was never close to begin with... its a really complicated web anyways, but they were someone i felt lullled into a sense of understanding with... i think that all changed after one dramatic event that occured much prior to this... there was kissing, which was wrong, considering she was going out w/ my best friend... from that point its all been a rollercoaster of up and down, friends, not friends... i grew so attached to her, i thought she could answer some of my questions... in the end i realised that she had changed from the person she was, to somewhat of a casual aquaintance... it's hard to let go of someone that you loved, then just were happy to be friends with... plus there is guilt and treachery and mending bad feelings w/ your best friend who you betrayed... its what originally threw me into meds, and what recently has made me up my dose of xanax per day...
>
> i've got a big weekend comming up, a friend's going away party combined w/ a friend's birthday party, at the bar i dj at... i'll have fun, i may even see her out... im looking forward with a open heart, and clear eyes... im not going to try to carry that dog inside me that keeps snapping snapping at my heart...
>
> dogboy
> woof woof
Posted by wendy b. on October 27, 2001, at 15:28:30
In reply to garbagemx piobmx19 bronchusevemx24 vletrmx21 , posted by kid_A on October 25, 2001, at 16:59:04
>
> my problem is that i rely on other people for my own strength... strength that should ultimately come from me... i let it slip that i 'need' people, as soon as casuals feel that they are 'neeeded' they feel crowded... they don't know how to react... nobody casual wants to feel necisary to someone elses happiness... but truth be told, i enjoy all my friends, they contribute to my happiness... its just some i enjoy more than others...
Hi Kid: Yes! We depend on other people for our happiness! In a real world, with real feelings, I think this is totally natural. We all want to feel complete in someone else's eyes - the goal I think is the way we feel about ourselves, that ought to be proud and full and confident. That we are complete already.Kid, you are complete already. Look at the beauty of your voice in your writing... There is a confident, heart-full man, with something to say...something he has to express. It takes a lot of courage to do what you're doing. And all in the middle of a breakdown. (We should have another thread about 'Breakdowns' and what that means...)
Xanax is good. It is also great you have the doc at the other end of the phone-line. Interesting that Geodon works well for you. I should look that up for myself.
> the fact is, in life you have to play the game with the cards held close to your chest, and make no moves...
I know how this feels, I have always said this to myself. 'Shut up! Don't talk so much. Don't reveal anything...' But I know it's wrong. Especially for creative people, people who rely on their creativity for the way they deal with or live in the world... When you write poetry, you can't hold your cards close to your chest, it doesn't work.Sometimes I think: we pick the wrong people over and over again. I feel that I have done that all of my life. That everything I have revealed to anyone, with my whole heart and soul, has always come around to bite me in the ass. When all is said and done. They throw your failures and your faults in your face and use it cruelly against you. Blaming you for the whole problem.
Maybe SHE was the problem, Kid. Maybe you made a mistake in trusting her. Or like others have said, maybe she has some intense stuff that she's dealing with, and can't express, and is frightened. That's how I feel about them, they get frightened easily, their own anxiety is at least some of the problem.
>i miss the way she could shriek in delight at a song she loved, or the positive criticism she gave my writing... when you find special things about someone, you tend to put them on a throne, especially if you were at once (once, still, perhaps), in love w/ them...
Yes, I think those of us who cannonize our loves, have probably had a serious problem with the parent of the opposite sex, and that the issues are unresolved. I think it's throwing onto our lovers what we wished we had gotten from our fathers or mothers. That it all goes back to that elemental, primary relationship.
> finding this board has been a great outlet for me, and there is so little that you need to 'explain'... so many people here know how it feels, and im so gratefull there are people who can understand....
Yes, that's the best thing. You can freak out here, and no one judges you about it. You are still an esteemed member of the 'clan,' so to speak. Susan is right, though (as usual), mentioning that now you have to have enough stability and mental acuity to pass the new little test. I guess informed conset means you have to have at least some wits about you, even through the fog of depressive/bipolar/whatever illness...
> thanks everyone for the responses... pdoc upped my xanax dosage today after mental breakdown... hooray... nothing like xanax to round of the edges of a saber pawed porcupine...
>
> ...
> ...
>
> to be in your eyes...
> to be in your eyes...
> to be in your eyes...
Anne Sexton, "The Fury of God's Good-bye"
One day He
tipped His top hat
and walked
out of the room,
ending the argument.
He stomped off
saying:
I don't give guarantees.
I was left
quite alone
using up the darkness.
I rolled up
my sweater,
up into a ball,
and took it
to bed with me,
a kind of stand-in
for God,
that washerwoman
who walks out
when you're clean
but not ironed.When I woke up
the sweater
had turned to
bricks of gold.
I'd won the world
but like a
forsaken explorer,
I'd lost
my map.__________
with love and hope,
Wendy
Posted by kid_A on October 29, 2001, at 10:28:39
In reply to Re: garbagemx piobmx19... » kid_A, posted by wendy b. on October 27, 2001, at 15:28:30
> Hi Kid: Yes! We depend on other people for our happiness! In a real world, with real feelings, I think this is totally natural.
The problem is, is that some people feel that you must be a completely autonomous unit, completely independant and that the best strategy is not to rely on anyone at all... I guess if you do that you will walk away with your feeling in tact, but isn't better to have -some- faith in people, that they won't let you down...
> Kid, you are complete already. Look at the beauty of your voice in your writing... There is a confident, heart-full man, with something to say...something he has to express.
thankyou... sometimes i feel like im writing to save my life... on the weekend of my breakdown i wrote six poems in one day... now ive been slowing down... need to regather my strength to begin writing again... in the end, all my feelings come out on paper, good or bad...
> Xanax is good. It is also great you have the doc at the other end of the phone-line.
yeah, im lucky that i have a pdoc that actually helps rather than just forcing you into whatever routine they choose as best for you...
> Maybe SHE was the problem, Kid. Maybe you made a mistake in trusting her.
In many aspects she doesn, she's also on AD's, shes got her share of faults... It's a complicated situation though, and in the end I knew that it might end this way... I got too attached to her, and it wound up pushing her away... it doesnt help that she was my best friends girlfriend... and that she + I kissed... Sometimes we see people the way we want to see then, but not as they really are...
> Yes, that's the best thing. You can freak out here, and no one judges you about it.
That's what is great, a friend read a poem I wrote the other day and said "is that really how you feel? jeez..." But you can say things here and people seem to understand, because they have been here... when we talk about our problems it's not so much that we are looking for answers, because all the answers come from within, but it helps to know that at least a few other souls out there can relate to what we say, our own little group of empaths.....
hope is good, love is best, trust is beauty~~~
Anne Sexton - "The Addict"
Sleepmonger,
deathmonger,
with capsules in my palms each night,
eight at a time from sweet pharmaceutical bottles
I make arrangements for a pint-sized journey.
I'm the queen of this condition.
I'm an expert on making the trip
and now they say I'm an addict.
Now they ask why.
WHY!Don't they know that I promised to die!
I'm keeping in practice.
I'm merely staying in shape.
The pills are a mother, but better,
every color and as good as sour balls.
I'm on a diet from death.Yes, I admit
it has gotten to be a bit of a habit-
blows eight at a time, socked in the eye,
hauled away by the pink, the orange,
the green and the white goodnights.
I'm becoming something of a chemical
mixture.
that's it!
My supply
of tablets
has got to last for years and years.
I like them more than I like me.
It's a kind of marriage.
It's a kind of war where I plant bombs inside
of myself.
Yes
I try
to kill myself in small amounts,
an innocuous occupatin.
Actually I'm hung up on it.
But remember I don't make too much noise.
And frankly no one has to lug me out
and I don't stand there in my winding sheet.
I'm a little buttercup in my yellow nightie
eating my eight loaves in a row
and in a certain order as in
the laying on of hands
or the black sacrament.
It's a ceremony
but like any other sport
it's full of rules.
It's like a musical tennis match where
my mouth keeps catching the ball.
Then I lie on; my altar
elevated by the eight chemical kisses.
What a lay me down this is
with two pink, two orange,
two green, two white goodnights.
Fee-fi-fo-fum-
Now I'm borrowed.
Now I'm numb.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Script revised: February 4, 2008
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