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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LOOPS on June 6, 2005, at 13:03:50
Hi people -
just thought I'd keep you all informed on a regular basis on my progress - don't mean to rant on - just thought my own experiences might prove useful to people in the future.
So I've been continuing with a relatively high dose of mixed fish oil - I'm afraid I'm not too regular with the dose, although it is always 3g + of EPA/DHA - with more EPA.
I'm also taking wheatgerm oil for vitamin E, lecithin (1-2 caps a day) and various other things, including spirulina, brewer's yeast, kelp, siberian ginseng and occasional zinc/EPO. Also I take a hangover formula which includes NAC, thiamin and vit C for those excessive weekend nights of drinking I'm still trying to eliminate (and which works surprisingly well!).
Anyway, recent things I've noticed (I went away on *holiday* to see my family in England for a month recently - so coming back I am noticing changes) - are, my weight, which originally went up after first going on the fish oil, for some reason has at last come down again. My appetite seems to be normal - even slightly less than before, although I eat frequent meals and with plenty of protein. Note I have suffered from an off-and-on bulimia problem, and before that anorexia - recently my obsession with food has become much less. Actually the last couple of months have been so smooth and food-obsession free I have only had 2 problematic days when I forgot to eat for a long time and suffered low blood sugar. This particular improvement gives me a tremendous sense of freedom - I hope this continues.
I feel more flexible mentally than ever before. My mood is certainly more stable; no more crying fits over little things, but also no euphoric highs - which I do miss a little; one big difference is in my reaction to alchohol - I don't get the good feeling rush when I drink it on an empty stomach that I used to (even one beer). This is very helpful in abstaining/cutting down on alchohol.
However I still feel capable of feeling both relaxed/happy and also motivated/alert, which is also good.
I still feel on some days a smallish amount of anxiety, and my sleeping patterns are still a bit hit and miss. However I don't panic if I don't get enough sleep, because these days I am not thrown into feeling emotionally awful if I don't get enough sleep. I feel then that I can cope with less sleep, although would rather have more.
My eczema is much, much improved. This effect did take quite awhile to kick in; but it has been a fair few weeks that I have not had to take antihistamines at night or apply lots of creams during the day. Skin is basically less dry and irritable. I still have a slight problem with rosacea around my eyes, but that seems to come and go very quickly depending on what I've eaten (discovered spinach is very bad).
So I am looking forward to this good reaction continuing. I was quite surprised at how I reacted to my family when visiting them. Usually it takes a day or so for me to withdraw /become argumentative, as they are very highly strung and we have a lot of communication problems. HOwever I was very patient and didn't get at all upset, despite the usual triggers coming up.
Well there we go - if anything major happens I will post - if it stops working etc. However I have a feeling this is good stuff for me and something my body/brain is finally happy with.
Take care
Loops
Posted by Ktemene on June 7, 2005, at 9:26:59
In reply to New update on my progress with fish oil etc...., posted by LOOPS on June 6, 2005, at 13:03:50
Thanks, Loops. Your updates are very helpful.
Do you still have the sense that wheat germ is giving you more energy?
Posted by LOOPS on June 7, 2005, at 20:37:23
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by Ktemene on June 7, 2005, at 9:26:59
Hi Ktemene -
yes, I still have that feeling, although it's still been such a short time to really know if it is that. I'm a bit perplexed about the whole vitamin E issue to be honest. If I take 200 IUs of 'natural mixed tocopherols' I seem to break out more (acne). This hasn't happened with the wheat germ - although I'm aware the quantity of vit E is probably much lower - more like 50Ius or something like that.
Loops
Posted by Ktemene on June 9, 2005, at 20:49:15
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by LOOPS on June 7, 2005, at 20:37:23
Hi Loops,
I am glad that fish oil has worked so well for you. I have been taking it for almost a year, and I have noticed a change for the better.
I know what you mean about being perplexed concerning Vitamin E. One of the reasons I was interested in wheat germ oil is that it is supposed to be a good source for Vitamin E, and taking fish oil is supposed to lower the body's store of Vitamin E.
I bought a bottle of wheat germ oil today. Would you mind saying how much you are taking? I am not sure about the dosage. Also, I seem to remember your posting something last year about tryptophan. Are you still taking tryptophan, and is so is it still helpful?Thanks,
Ktemene
Posted by LOOPS on June 10, 2005, at 15:02:41
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by Ktemene on June 9, 2005, at 20:49:15
Hi ktemene -
I read somewhere a tablespoon of wheatgerm oil contains about 50IUs of vitamin E - not that much. However I am not sure exactly how much one would actually need relative to the amount of fish oil. I've heard so many different things - from 200 - 800IUs per day - which does seem a lot. But then taking so much fish oil doesn't seem that natural anyway, unless of course you are an eskimo!
I like the wheatgerm oil because it does indeed seem to help with energy levels and endurance in sport. I probably wind up taking a couple of teaspoons per day.
Regarding the tryptophan I dropped it after it seemed to stop working for insomnia and was giving me some weird shaky sweaty feelings - which I'd never had off 5htp. I went back onto 5htp, which at that point had become useful again - kept on with that for a few months, then recently came off it altogether, feeling that my sleep wasn't benefitting that much anymore. The 5htp in the end would make me sleepy but then I'd be waking up at 3/4am and not able to go back to sleep.
I still occasionally take melatonin for sleep when I'm feeling very awake last thing at night.
I guess I just don't feel the need for the tryptophan/5htp as much as I used to, which is good news.
How does the fish oil make you feel after a year?
Loops
Posted by Ktemene on June 13, 2005, at 18:01:33
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by LOOPS on June 10, 2005, at 15:02:41
Hi Loops,
Thanks for the dosage information. A few days ago I started taking wheat germ oil at about the same dosage as you use- a couple of teaspoons a day. I agree with you that it does seem to increase energy. I heard a doctor say this a long time ago, but I had forgotten about it, and I hadn't read anything about it. But my experience the last few days has been that wheat germ oil increases energy without increasing anxiety, which is terrific.
I wonder about Vitamin E as well. I have heard that taking fish oil increases one's need for Vitamin E. After the results of that meta-study came out last November in the Annals of Internal Medicine I have stopped taking high Vitamin E supplements. I was taking as much as 800mg per day. But according to the meta-study taking more than 400mg a day increases one's all cause mortality by 10%. On the other hand, the meta-study showed decreases mortality for people taking less than 150mg per day. Since then I have kept my Vitamin E supplementation under 150mg. Of course, there were a lot of problems with the meta-study, which the article itself pointed out. But it makes sense to me that it is possible to overdo something like Vitamin E, and 150mg is still a lot over the recommended daily allowance.I have been using tryptophan in the last couple of weeks or so mainly to deal with stress and irritation on the job. I have found that it works pretty well for that, but it may just be the old placebo effect.
I used to take melatonin for sleep, but it made me more depressed the next day, so I stopped taking melatonin. But I didn't throw away the bottle. Someone told me that there were studies that showed that topical melatonin improved the pelts of animals, so I started opening the melatonin capsules and mixing the contents with water and rubbing a bit of it into my scalp at night. I figured that I would be absorbing a little melatonin that way, which might help me sleep, but that would not be enough to make me depressed the next day. I don't know whether the topical melatonin is helping me sleep, but my hair does seem to be lots healthier looking!
When I first started taking fish oil about a year ago, I did not feel the strong antidepressant effect I was hoping for. But it did get rid of the ectopic heartbeats that I have always had, so I kept taking the fish oil just for that. Now, a year later, my sense is that the fish oil is having an antidepressant effect, but it is kind of subtle. I guess I feel more stable and that I have more resilience or something like that. I am also taking magnesium supplements and I think that helps reduce the ectopic heartbeats and anxiety levels. I think that fish oil and magnesium work well together.
I know from reading your posts that fish oil has helped you a lot, and I am really happy for you that you found something that is working so well for you. And thanks so much for the tip about wheat germ oil!
Ktemene
> Hi ktemene -
>
> I read somewhere a tablespoon of wheatgerm oil contains about 50IUs of vitamin E - not that much. However I am not sure exactly how much one would actually need relative to the amount of fish oil. I've heard so many different things - from 200 - 800IUs per day - which does seem a lot. But then taking so much fish oil doesn't seem that natural anyway, unless of course you are an eskimo!
>
> I like the wheatgerm oil because it does indeed seem to help with energy levels and endurance in sport. I probably wind up taking a couple of teaspoons per day.
>
> Regarding the tryptophan I dropped it after it seemed to stop working for insomnia and was giving me some weird shaky sweaty feelings - which I'd never had off 5htp. I went back onto 5htp, which at that point had become useful again - kept on with that for a few months, then recently came off it altogether, feeling that my sleep wasn't benefitting that much anymore. The 5htp in the end would make me sleepy but then I'd be waking up at 3/4am and not able to go back to sleep.
>
> I still occasionally take melatonin for sleep when I'm feeling very awake last thing at night.
>
> I guess I just don't feel the need for the tryptophan/5htp as much as I used to, which is good news.
>
> How does the fish oil make you feel after a year?
>
> Loops
Posted by LOOPS on June 14, 2005, at 9:27:44
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by Ktemene on June 13, 2005, at 18:01:33
Hiya -
I originally was thinking about bumping up my vit E after reading the studies posted on oilofpisces.com that some people's levels of vitamin E were found to be very low after ~high fish oil dosing. Well once more, every time I do this, my skin seems to break out like crazy (even with 200IUs of natural mixed). Ah, I just can't win really.
I have a multi in my cupboard which contains 133IUs of E per pill - but I haven't been taking it because it contains such huuuge quantities of beta-carotene - not that I'm really that bothered or neurotic about taking synthetic vitamin A, but in attempting to go a more natural way I only want to take what I really need right now.
How much fish oil do you take on a daily basis and how much vitamin E now? I'm thinking of getting hold of some droppable vitamin E so I can measure out a lower dose to have with the wheatgerm oil - say 40-50 extra IUs - feel this is more reasonable.
Loops
Posted by Ktemene on June 14, 2005, at 14:19:41
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by LOOPS on June 14, 2005, at 9:27:44
Hey Loops,
The brand of fish oil I use is Carlson's (the liquid, not the capsules) and it already includes some Vitamin E. I have a bottle of Vitamin E with an eyedropper-type thingy that lets me add just a drop or two at a time to my fish oil- just what you were thinking of. I think it works quite well. Somehow I feel better about being able to control the amount of Vitamin E I am taking. Since I'm adding a drop or two of liquid Vitamin E to the fish oil, I'm getting a little extra Vitamin E, but less than 150mg per day. But I also try to use lots of olive oil on salads and veggies, and to eat lots of almonds, since olive oil and almonds are both high in Vitamin E and it is better absorbed from a natural source.
I was taking one or two teaspoons of fish oil a day, but I have decided to make a point of taking three teaspoons a day and see if I notice a difference. I guess that means I'll be taking three teaspoons of wheat germ oil a day:)
I'd be really interested to hear why wheat germ oil has this dramatic effect on energy levels. When Larry is feeling better I am going to ask him.
By the way, are you still taking vinpocetine?
Ktemene
> Hiya -
>
> I originally was thinking about bumping up my vit E after reading the studies posted on oilofpisces.com that some people's levels of vitamin E were found to be very low after ~high fish oil dosing. Well once more, every time I do this, my skin seems to break out like crazy (even with 200IUs of natural mixed). Ah, I just can't win really.
>
> I have a multi in my cupboard which contains 133IUs of E per pill - but I haven't been taking it because it contains such huuuge quantities of beta-carotene - not that I'm really that bothered or neurotic about taking synthetic vitamin A, but in attempting to go a more natural way I only want to take what I really need right now.
>
> How much fish oil do you take on a daily basis and how much vitamin E now? I'm thinking of getting hold of some droppable vitamin E so I can measure out a lower dose to have with the wheatgerm oil - say 40-50 extra IUs - feel this is more reasonable.
>
> Loops
Posted by LOOPS on June 14, 2005, at 15:56:46
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by Ktemene on June 14, 2005, at 14:19:41
Hi -
no, no more vinpocetine for me. I still have a bottle, but quit taking it just because it sometimes made me a bit hyped. Also feeling more balanced with the fish oil I started taking less things anyway. I might save it for really mentally demanding situations though!
I'm still debating multivitamins as I'm not sure how they make me feel - sometimes I think they make me a bit hyped up, but that could just be me. I guess it's pretty impossible to get lots of vitamins/minerals from just food. Still taking the brewer's yeast and some vitamin C, but I don't want to get deficient in zinc EVER again like I once was (had a test), and even brewer's yeast doesn't really have very much zinc.
Gonna get that vitamin E in drops though - then I can see how much triggers acne. I think Solgar does a good one.
I heard Carlsons too was very good. I read on some website how people suffering from eczema should take heaps of high quality fish oil to get over inflammation. I still have some annoying patches - nowhere near as bad as before, but still getting rosacea round my eyes (damp house + food allergies yuk).
What do you think of multivitamins?
Loops
Loops
Posted by Ktemene on June 17, 2005, at 17:37:05
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by LOOPS on June 14, 2005, at 15:56:46
Hi Loops,
Solgar is the brand of liquid Vitamin E that I use. I haven't tried any other brand of fish oil apart from Carlson's . I started using it because I had read here on Psycho-Babble that it was a reliable brand, and because you can buy it in liquid form. I can't stand to take fish oil in capsule form- the fish oil aftertaste is too much for me, baby that I am. But a teaspoon of Carlson's liquid fish oil can be mixed with tomato juice and wheat germ oil :) and it tastes just fine and there is no aftertaste at all.
I take wheat germ as well. In fact, I actually like the taste! Mixing wheat germ and whey into milk makes a great milkshake.
About multivitamins, I really don't know. I stopped taking them some time ago because I couldn't find a brand that didn't include something that I didn't want to take, e.g. too much iron, or too much Vitamin A or too much Vitamin E etc. So now I take a B vitamin, a C vitamin, a D vitamin, and zinc and selenium, all in separate pills! It is a lot of pills to take, but what with all the depression medications I have tried over the years, that does not bother me very much.
The things that have helped me the most recently, apart from wheat germ oil, are whey and creatine. Larry says somewhere in one of his posts that whey always makes him feel better. In fact, a number of people have said that, and someone speculated that it might be because whey protein, or some whey protein at any rate, has a disproportionately large amount of tryptophan in it. So I found a brand of whey that had a fair amount of tryptophan (the different brands usually have something on the back of the container that breaks down the amount of each of the amino acids in their whey). And I do feel better when I take it. Of course, it may not be because of the tryptophan- Lotus has another explanation in the thread on whey below. But for whatever reason, it helps. Recently I have been added three grams of creatine to the whey, fruit and yogart mixture I have for breakfast every morning. I read in a post of Raybakes that it helps to take TMG with creatine because creatine can use up methyl or something like that, so I take TMG as well. Anyway, my impression is that creatine does give me more energy and lifts my mood a bit.
Ktemene
> Hi -
>
> no, no more vinpocetine for me. I still have a bottle, but quit taking it just because it sometimes made me a bit hyped. Also feeling more balanced with the fish oil I started taking less things anyway. I might save it for really mentally demanding situations though!
>
> I'm still debating multivitamins as I'm not sure how they make me feel - sometimes I think they make me a bit hyped up, but that could just be me. I guess it's pretty impossible to get lots of vitamins/minerals from just food. Still taking the brewer's yeast and some vitamin C, but I don't want to get deficient in zinc EVER again like I once was (had a test), and even brewer's yeast doesn't really have very much zinc.
>
> Gonna get that vitamin E in drops though - then I can see how much triggers acne. I think Solgar does a good one.
>
> I heard Carlsons too was very good. I read on some website how people suffering from eczema should take heaps of high quality fish oil to get over inflammation. I still have some annoying patches - nowhere near as bad as before, but still getting rosacea round my eyes (damp house + food allergies yuk).
>
> What do you think of multivitamins?
>
> Loops
>
> Loops
Posted by LOOPS on June 18, 2005, at 12:57:46
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by Ktemene on June 17, 2005, at 17:37:05
Hi -
interesting about the whey protein. Never tried it, but I might. Right now I'm pretty happy with the wheatgerm oil, and I've managed to find a level of GLA that doesn't pull my mood down, but does completely anhialate (sp?) residual anxiety that the fish oil does not completely take care of. Must be my hormones - because this month I had no PMT and I had just added back in 3 caps of 500mg epo a day. I still rave about lecithin in combo with fish oil. I even seem to be able to tolerate a few caps of flax seed oil without it sending me into mixed-emotion-land - as long as I take the GLA.
These fatty acids are very helpful indeed for mental health. I just wish I'd known about this combo years ago, then I could have saved myself a lot of trial and error with different supplements.
Loops
Posted by Ktemene on June 18, 2005, at 20:28:23
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by LOOPS on June 18, 2005, at 12:57:46
Hi Loops,
Wow, that sure is success! Would you mind saying what your full fatty acid intake is? I know you mentioned in your post above that you take about 3 grams of fish oil, and 1-2 caps of lecithin. How much lecithin is in the caps you take? I guess the epo you mention is Evening Primrose Oil? Is that your GLA? Or are you taking something else for GLA? I was so inspired by your post that I went out today to try to find some lecithin, but the local health food store was out of it. But as soon as they get a new shipment, I will start taking it with fish oil.
Ktemene
> Hi -
>
> interesting about the whey protein. Never tried it, but I might. Right now I'm pretty happy with the wheatgerm oil, and I've managed to find a level of GLA that doesn't pull my mood down, but does completely anhialate (sp?) residual anxiety that the fish oil does not completely take care of. Must be my hormones - because this month I had no PMT and I had just added back in 3 caps of 500mg epo a day. I still rave about lecithin in combo with fish oil. I even seem to be able to tolerate a few caps of flax seed oil without it sending me into mixed-emotion-land - as long as I take the GLA.
>
> These fatty acids are very helpful indeed for mental health. I just wish I'd known about this combo years ago, then I could have saved myself a lot of trial and error with different supplements.
>
> Loops
Posted by vitaqueen on June 24, 2005, at 12:36:44
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc... » LOOPS, posted by Ktemene on June 18, 2005, at 20:28:23
> Wow, that sure is success! Would you mind saying what your full fatty acid intake is? I know you mentioned in your post above that you take about 3 grams of fish oil, and 1-2 caps of lecithin. How much lecithin is in the caps you take? I guess the epo you mention is Evening Primrose Oil? Is that your GLA? Or are you taking something else for GLA? I was so inspired by your post that I went out today to try to find some lecithin, but the local health food store was out of it. But as soon as they get a new shipment, I will start taking it with fish oil.
>>FYI -- This product came highly recommended "Ultimate Oil" -- you can read about the components here: http://tinyurl.com/dz7dy
I would appreciate any feedback on it. I've only been on it about a week.
Posted by LOOPS on June 24, 2005, at 18:31:38
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc... » LOOPS, posted by Ktemene on June 18, 2005, at 20:28:23
> Hi Loops,
>
> Wow, that sure is success! Would you mind saying what your full fatty acid intake is? I know you mentioned in your post above that you take about 3 grams of fish oil, and 1-2 caps of lecithin. How much lecithin is in the caps you take? I guess the epo you mention is Evening Primrose Oil? Is that your GLA? Or are you taking something else for GLA? I was so inspired by your post that I went out today to try to find some lecithin, but the local health food store was out of it. But as soon as they get a new shipment, I will start taking it with fish oil.
>
> Ktemene
>
Hi -so I'm afraid my daily intake right now seems to vary a little - just because I go by intuition and am still trying to find the right ratios - and then this might change during the month anyway!
So I was just at the doctors about my rosacea (which, it turns out, isn't - plus it suddenly went down today so I didn't have much to show her! Always seems to happen that). She actually commented on how well I looked and said I seemed a lot less tense than before (I see her about once every 4/5 months about various things). So that was good to hear. She is a great supporter of vitamin E and said 200IUs is really not a large amount, and that it is more likely vitamin D that can exacerbate acne (I do take cod liver oil). I don't know about that, but I do respect her opinion on things as she is much in favour of finding natural routes to healing. She really doesn't ever push pills on me.
Anyway, that's a bit off subject.
So I think my overall EFA intake must be around 3-4g DHA/EPA plus a couple of caps flax seed oil, 1000mg evening primrose oil (90mg GLA) - although more if I've not been taking it or am feeling excessively anxious; usually a single 'triple lecithin' cap from GNC, supplying 1200mg 'high choline lecithin' aka 420mg phos. choline.
Um - what else - well the wheatgerm oil I think contains a bit of ALA and obviously LA, octacosanol and vit E.
Today I took the plunge and had 200IUs of mixed tocopherols, and also 2 large Solgar 'Earth Source Multinutrients' pills - which kinds of disses my original 'no multi' thing. However I was kind of drained this afternoon, so there was no likelihood of feeling hyped up. Also I've I can't really be bothered with the whole anti-multi thing I was starting to buy into - I don't think it does much harm really and I should just relax about it (spend my time worrying about other things perhaps).
Lecithin I originally started taking for concentration in tennis. A few things on this: when I was only taking fish oil and lots of GLA (EPO and borage oil) I did descend back into depression land, and my tennis was awful (ah the woes of my life!).
AS soon as I dropped the GLA dose to much lower and added in the lecithin I noticed my concentration was very good on the court and everything just seemed to 'flow' better. I can't believe it's all just placebo as I'm a very cynical person.
Well enough waffle.
Oh, I also notice the lecithin makes me more chatty, so it's good to take before going out if I'm not in such a sociable mood (too much GLA can make me antisocial as well, but the right amount whatever that is just calms me a bit).
I'm very interested in whether GLA has an effect on serotonin. I'm pretty sure fish oil has an effect on both dopamine and serotonin, maybe more dopamine slightly, and lecithin - well, this should be dopamine if it makes me more sociable - but it doesn' make me wired, which extra dopamine should.
???
Loops
Posted by LOOPS on June 24, 2005, at 18:37:29
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by vitaqueen on June 24, 2005, at 12:36:44
> > Wow, that sure is success! Would you mind saying what your full fatty acid intake is? I know you mentioned in your post above that you take about 3 grams of fish oil, and 1-2 caps of lecithin. How much lecithin is in the caps you take? I guess the epo you mention is Evening Primrose Oil? Is that your GLA? Or are you taking something else for GLA? I was so inspired by your post that I went out today to try to find some lecithin, but the local health food store was out of it. But as soon as they get a new shipment, I will start taking it with fish oil.
> >>
>
> FYI -- This product came highly recommended "Ultimate Oil" -- you can read about the components here: http://tinyurl.com/dz7dy
>
> I would appreciate any feedback on it. I've only been on it about a week.
>
>Hi -
I would probably take the ultimate oil in addition to fish oil as it has the flax and GLA, and a bit of vit E - just depends what you're looking for I guess. Some people don't seem to need much EFA to make a big mental difference and some do very well on flax seed oil as sole omega-3 supplement. I wouldn't be surprised if it's good to take flax and fish oil together because both do some different things.
Good luck with finding the lecithin. I really like the gel caps- they feel stronger than the granules etc.
Loops
Posted by buddhi on July 22, 2005, at 12:00:12
In reply to Re: New update on my progress with fish oil etc..., posted by LOOPS on June 14, 2005, at 15:56:46
> Hi -
>
> no, no more vinpocetine for me. I still have a bottle, but quit taking it just because it sometimes made me a bit hyped. Also feeling more balanced with the fish oil I started taking less things anyway. I might save it for really mentally demanding situations though!
>
> I'm still debating multivitamins as I'm not sure how they make me feel - sometimes I think they make me a bit hyped up, but that could just be me. I guess it's pretty impossible to get lots of vitamins/minerals from just food. Still taking the brewer's yeast and some vitamin C, but I don't want to get deficient in zinc EVER again like I once was (had a test), and even brewer's yeast doesn't really have very much zinc.
>
> Gonna get that vitamin E in drops though - then I can see how much triggers acne. I think Solgar does a good one.
>
> I heard Carlsons too was very good. I read on some website how people suffering from eczema should take heaps of high quality fish oil to get over inflammation. I still have some annoying patches - nowhere near as bad as before, but still getting rosacea round my eyes (damp house + food allergies yuk).
>
> What do you think of multivitamins?
>
> Loops
>
> LoopsI'm adding something to my first message about vinpocetine....my email adress Amy@pause.com again what brand of vinpocetine did you use and what brand of fish oil?????? thanks again buddhi!
This is the end of the thread.
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