Posted by fallsfall on October 28, 2003, at 9:12:37
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob - » sb417, posted by Elle2021 on October 28, 2003, at 4:04:50
This post is written to Kristen (when I say "you", I mean Kristen), but I'm hoping that other posters will read it and try to understand what I am trying to say...
I hear very clearly that you are in a lot of pain. I wish that I (or anyone else) could wave a magic wand and make that pain go away for you. I wish that I could offer you lots of assistance and support, but I am limited in what I can do. I will do what I can.
In therapy right now, I am working on something that my also be applicable for you. I am finding that it is often true that my therapist will say something to me, but what I hear and understand is not what he meant. He thinks something and then translates that into words. I hear the words, but when I translate them into thought I end up with different thoughts than he started out with. This happens with EVERYONE ALL the time. Most of the time, though, the thoughts are close enough so that there isn't a real problem. Unfortunately for me (and perhaps you?) my translations are colored (distorted) by things that I learned as I was growing up. Can you believe that it could be possible that you might hear (understand) things that other people might not mean? And that they might hear (understand) things that you don't mean? For instance, if I ask you to pick up a red crayon, you might pick up a pink one (because pink is a kind of red). I might think that you picked up a maroon crayon (that's my favorite color), and suggest that you use your crayon to color the bricks in the picture. You would then look at me like I have two heads because noone would color bricks pink. We both have made valid translations (red-pink and red-maroon), but we didn't make the SAME translation.
Let's look at a sentance in your post:
"I know that a poster a while back committed suicide, and I would hate that to happen again."Let me try to guess what you might have meant by this sentance, and then I'll tell you how another person might have interpreted it. If we can just agree that there may be misunderstandings, (and that it might be possible to clear up the misunderstandings) I think that some people (including me and hopefully you) might not feel as anxious as they do now.
You said "I would hate for that (a suicide) to happen again". I think that you could mean (and I would like to know if I am guessing right) that you wish that no one on this board would ever commit suicide again. That you hope that something (you/we don't know what) can be done so that no one feels that they have no other options. And I believe, since you are a poster on this board, that you hope that you will not commit suicide. But I also think that you are scared that you might not be able to find that something (the thing that we don't know what it is yet) that would let you see that you have other options. Am I close? If I'm not, then we can talk about what I'm getting wrong so that we can understand each other. I want to understand your THOUGHT.
It is important for you, also, to realize that other people could interpret that sentance differently. Let's pretend that there is a poster named "Alphonse" (this person does not really exist - I just made him up, and I really like the name Alphonse. Is anyone here really named Alphonse?), but I just want you to see that Alphonse could REASONABLY interpret the sentance differently that what I am guessing you meant.
The two previous sentances have 7 exclaimation marks at the ends:
"Are you waiting for me to just leave???????
Why is everyone ganging up on me???????"
Alphonse COULD reasonably interpret these sentances to mean that you are very confused and feeling a little (or lot) bit desperate. If you were just "wondering" (rather than confused or desperate) Alphonse might expect you to use only 1 exclaimation mark. So Alphonse believes that you are feeling desperate (remember, this is just what Alphonse believes - it may have not be the way you are feeling at all - Alphonse could be misinterpreting what you are saying).Just above there you said:
"I looked up suicide online"Let's say that Alphonse believes that being desperate could make it so that a person might not be able to see that they have many options (that's kind of what desperate means to me - that I am feeling like I don't have any good choices, that I'm going to have to choose something that I don't like). So if Alphonse believes that you are desperate and you are researching the option of suicide, Alphonse could believe that suicide might be one of the few options that you are considering. Can you see how it would be reasonable for Alphonse to THINK that this is what you meant (even if it isn't really what you meant at all)?
Then Alphonse reads:
"I know that a poster a while back committed suicide, and I would hate that to happen again"Alphonse might believe from this that you believe that it is possible for posters to commit suicide (because you know that it has happened in the past). The next phrase "and I would hate that to happen again" COULD be interpreted by Alphonse to be "and I would hate that to happen again, BUT IT MIGHT". Even if this is not what you intended the sentance to mean, do you see how Alphonse could reasonably get that meaning from the sentance you wrote? So now Alponse thinks that you are desperate, one of your few options is suicide, and that you think that the suicide of a poster is possible. Alphonse might very well think that this means that you think it is possible that you would commit suicide. Until he read your post, Alphonse wasn't thinking that ANYONE was going to commit suicide, but now he thinks that you are considering it. Do you see how Alphonse could believe that you are threatening to commit suicide (even if this is not your intent at all)? That he might think that you believe that it is possible that you would commit suicide?
So, if my interpretation of what you were thinking is right (that you really want something to happen so that suicide is NOT your only option), and if Alphonse is thinking that suicide is a real option for you, then the two of you are not thinking alike at all! But both of the interpretations are REASONABLE based on the words that you wrote.
I know that I am having a really hard time with my therapist right now because he says something and means one thing, but I interpret it to mean something else (like I think that he's mad at me, or thinks I'm stupid). After a lot of effort, we are (just barely) getting to the point where I am looking at what I am hearing and trying to let him know how I am interpreting it. At which point he looks at me like I have two heads and says "Where did you get that? That's not what I said at all!", and I sigh and say "But that's what I HEARD!". We are starting now to go back to the words that he said, and many times now (not always...) he can explain to me what he meant to say and I can see how it is different from what I heard. I can also see how the same words can be interpreted in the two different ways. It's like he says it from HIS point of view, but I hear it from MINE. What I'm trying to learn to do, and I'm not good at it yet at all, is to hear it from HIS point of view. To hear what he meant me to hear, rather than what my life so far would interpret his words to mean.
Does this make any sense? This long winded post is hoping that both you, Kristen, and others who are reading your posts might see that it is possible that what they interpret from your words may not be what you mean, and what you interpret from their words may not be what they mean. I am thinking that BOTH sides are making incorrect assumptions about what the "other" side means.
If you and other posters think that this might be true, then let's try to take a deep breath, back up and see if we can't have a better understanding of each other.
I think that a big part of the problem is that when you are on the internet you lose a lot of information - body language, voice inflection, pauses or timing or rhythm. Those pieces of information make it much easier to understand what the other person MEANS. When you just have the black and white words it is really easy to misinterpret.
I guess that, at this point, what I would be really happy with would be if EVERYONE on this board could agree that it is POSSIBLE that ANY ONE, OR ALL OF US could be misinterpreting what someone else is saying. And perhaps that other person isn't the ogre that you think they are.
Kristen, I don't think you are an ogre. And I don't think that the posters who are angry at you are ogres either. I just think that there are different viewpoints and that there is a lot of miscommunication.
poster:fallsfall
thread:274133
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20031008/msgs/274230.html