![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on March 31, 2007, at 0:31:23
I get all mixed up about why I am there and if it is even worth all the angst. I'm not attached in anyway to the group, except intellectually. I missed last week and didn't even think about it. So why do I go?
1) I started going to dilute my dependency with my therapist. That didn't happen. If anything, I'm more attached than ever.
2) I go to practice "telling."
3) I went looking for a shortcut through all these feelings -- like someone else might have a magic answer. They didn't
4) I'm trying to not be so together but rather more vulnerable with people.
So I know pretty clearly that group could be good for me. But the truth is, I feel excluded a lot of the time. The therapist for the group seems to not really know what to do with me, she says, "that makes sense to me" a lot. I share, but then I have my own insights and strategies so there is no real need for "help." I've told the details of one abuse episode only once. From that I learned that I don't want "gee that was awful" feedback. What I need is "we believe you and it wasn't your fault." It was hard to tell them that but I did. But since then I haven't shared again, even though we agreed to take turns and no one has asked me to share anything. It is hard not to read that as "your story was too hard to hear" OR "what the heck are you complaining about, that was nothing." (Amazing how my brain works, isn't it?) And then one of our group members (we are currently a very small group of three plus the therapist since we've lost two) told us that she and her individual therapist have decided that she needs to not be so immersed in abuse "stuff" so she is letting it go and allowing forgiveness into her life/heart. I'm really glad for her, I want her to find peace. Our therapist said, "you are experiencing healing." I felt upset, like I'm doing it all wrong because not only do I not feel forgiveness, I don't want to. I'm angry and I want everyone to know I'm angry.This week I did about a 10 minute check in (at the most) and then someone else talked for like 1/2 hour. There was a lot of back and forth between her and the therapist. (She said, "makes sense to me" when I summed up). After that, another group member talked about how hard it is to be herself when she feels vulnerable. The therapist actually turned to another group member and asked her what she thought about that and essentially the three of them talked about it. I was sort of stung, particularly since I said during my own check in that I was struggling with wanting to be vulnerable with someone but it felt terrifying to want that. And then about 10 minutes before group ended, she turns to me and says, "you've been awfully quiet tonight." You think?! I said something stupid about being able to relate.
I'm trying to sort this out. I talked it over with my therapist. I gave him the facts in as unbiased way as I could. He said he thinks I'm right, I am being left out, or "dropped" some. But he thinks I'm making myself invisible, which is something I'm really good at. And not talking about my anger, the idea that telling stories is wrong, is like not acknowledging the elephant in the room. He pointed out that this is another thing I'm good at, just going along and making it all OK. He said it is an opportunity to practice "not being so damn nice." It is possible that I present in such a way that I never look like I need help or have confidence issues. But I do.
Group is just hard. Any tips, other than running away?
Posted by zenhussy on March 31, 2007, at 2:32:35
In reply to Group therapy is hard, posted by Daisym on March 31, 2007, at 0:31:23
>>>Group is just hard. Any tips, other than running away?<<<
don't. seriously. over the time we spent in group we went as large as seven not including therapist and down to those tiny three person groups. the dynamics shifted dramatically when the group was so small.
one thing that helped in the group was the way in which the therapist ran it. much attention was paid to allocating time for each member as needed. the group would figure out depending on how many had shown up how long a turn each could take over the three hours (two? can't recall) and still have time for check ins and a final closing before end. if someone wanted to not use their turn we'd all go and then at the end we'd see if that person had changed mind so that they had chance to use THEIR time in group.
initial impression from your post is that group therapist doesn't seem to manage smaller groups as well as when the group is full. if that's incorrect--apologies.
we'd never be facing our stuff if we hadn't done group work. it was essential for us for our healing and our truths. we'd have never learned how to be vulnerable or how to ask for help if not for the examples we witnessed firsthand in group.
is there any option to sit a "round" out of group? perhaps the therapist needs to build the group back up to a more workable number to help balance the dynamics.
do not give up. we're here because others took time to let us know not to give up. several years ago we couldn't have imagined feeling as we do now........things aren't great but we're not in the horror we used to live in day and night. that is the direct result of working w/ pdoc, thearpist, group therapy, and a host of other healing modalities.
it is work. and it ain't easy but the relief from shedding the pain, guilt and shame more than make up for the long road it has been and the long road it continues to be. if we're still here and not in the hole we used to live in then anything is possible.
how funny after several years of reading these boards we come across the same thing from folks.......never, won't, can't, NO to a variety of things that might be able to help them.....and after several years of struggling and still more denial many have 180'd into treatments that have improved their lives in ways they never dreamt.
don't run. maybe stroll for a bit. please don't shut the door on group just yet....especially if you're making yourself invisible. staying merely to address that is worth it as it can help you understand more about the ongoing unanswered whys.
Posted by TherapyGirl on March 31, 2007, at 10:21:28
In reply to Group therapy is hard, posted by Daisym on March 31, 2007, at 0:31:23
It *is* hard. And I know what you're talking about. When I was in group, the ending came when there were three of us left and we spent each week watching one of us have individual therapy (the same one each week). I'm sorry, I just don't see how that's helpful for anyone -- not even the one who was getting all the attention because she didn't have to give anything back or hear anyone else's struggles.
I like the way Zen described her group and the way they allocated time. This makes sense and seems fair to me, rather than winging it.
What your T said about you makes sense, too, but in this kind of group, shouldn't the group T be aware that some people present that way and do what she can to include you???
As you can probably tell, this pushes my buttons. But maybe a different group would be a better fit. I don't know. I do know it's hard and you have my respect for trying.
Posted by frida on March 31, 2007, at 10:59:13
In reply to Group therapy is hard, posted by Daisym on March 31, 2007, at 0:31:23
Dear Daisy,
I haven't been in group..
I hear you how hard and painful it is for you..
especially to feel left out and invisible.I would feel just as hurt.
I think the T should try to include you..She knows why you are there for, and part of your history...so she should know how hard it is to reach out, to talk, and how easy to minimize things and feel worthless.
I would feel very hurt.Maybe that would be a good place to start? Just walk in and tell them that you are feeling in pain because you feel invisible? just like back then :-( waiting for someone to notice...
I admire you for having the strength to even try this.
about forgiveness...I share your views...
I don't want to forgive someone who never ever regretted or apologized and would hurt me all over if he wasn't dead now because he enjoyed seeing me in pain.I hope you can tell them how you truly feel. Maybe that would be helpful to you and the T could change her way of managing the group?
or at least ask you more...sending you support,
Frida
Posted by sunnydays on March 31, 2007, at 11:29:26
In reply to Group therapy is hard, posted by Daisym on March 31, 2007, at 0:31:23
I don't know. I'm in a group now, and I've had some of the same problems. I feel like I can't relate a lot of the time (I'm the youngest there, so a lot of people have had experiences like marriage that I just simply haven't had). And it feels a lot of the time to me like no one knows what to say to me, even the therapists (one's a trainee, so we have two for a group of six). I finally figured out that part of my problem is that I feel like I have to be given permission to talk, so someone has to ask me something for me to say something. Other people it seems like can just jump in and talk with no prompting, which I don't know how to do. I haven't been able to talk to my therapist about it yet (see post above), so I don't quite know what to do about it.
My therapist knows the group leaders, so he can tell them some things. But he wants me to just keep trying different things to see what works to make me feel connected. Like maybe saying that I don't feel connected when there's period of silence, or saying what I want people to say to me, even if it feels contrived.
I'm glad you posted this Daisy. Makes me feel like maybe it's not an uncommon problem in groups. My therapist told me he was proud of me for sticking with it, even though I could easily have decided I wasn't ready or didn't like it or something. I'm proud of you too. You keep going, even though you don't have to. Keep trying different things is my advice, I guess. But I totally get how hard that can be, and how lonely you can feel in a group of people.
sunnydays
Posted by cubic_me on March 31, 2007, at 16:23:09
In reply to Group therapy is hard, posted by Daisym on March 31, 2007, at 0:31:23
Daisy I understand exactly where you're coming from, I had very similar experiences in group.
> I get all mixed up about why I am there and if it is even worth all the angst. I'm not attached in anyway to the group, except intellectually. I missed last week and didn't even think about it. So why do I go?
I was the same, I was interested from a theoretical point of view, but didn't feel involved, or that any real emotion was invested in the group like it was with my T. Perhaps because there are so many more people than the intense one on one relationship with a T, perhaps because the group just wasn't working for me (or you) at that time.
>
> 1) I started going to dilute my dependency with my therapist. That didn't happen. If anything, I'm more attached than ever.I had to trade my T in for group (the center only did one or the other), so I don't have personal experience of this, but I can see how if you're having a hard time in group you might need more support when you see your T. Group is meant to be like testing out things before you do it "for real" in the outside world, and if it's not working, that can be pretty scary and some validation can really help. Though I may be way off the mark here.
>
> 2) I go to practice "telling."I went for that reason too, plus a few others, but found most people in the group had difficulty socialising in general, which wasn't a problem for me.
>
> 3) I went looking for a shortcut through all these feelings -- like someone else might have a magic answer. They didn'tDon't we all, you think maybe if you just try one more thing you'll feel better.
>
> 4) I'm trying to not be so together but rather more vulnerable with people.I suppose that goes with the being able to "tell", but also about showing emotions generally. I can see why group can help some people with that.
>
>
> So I know pretty clearly that group could be good for me. But the truth is, I feel excluded a lot of the time. The therapist for the group seems to not really know what to do with me, she says, "that makes sense to me" a lot. I share, but then I have my own insights and strategies so there is no real need for "help."I can really relate to this, it makes you think you don't need to be there, like there's no point. But Have you thought about why you might be excluded? Are you different from the other group members in any particular way? Are they working on different things to you? Or something else?
> I've told the details of one abuse episode only once. From that I learned that I don't want "gee that was awful" feedback. What I need is "we believe you and it wasn't your fault." It was hard to tell them that but I did. But since then I haven't shared again, even though we agreed to take turns and no one has asked me to share anything. It is hard not to read that as "your story was too hard to hear" OR "what the heck are you complaining about, that was nothing." (Amazing how my brain works, isn't it?)
I also shared only once, about my self harm. The subject was glossed over and never discussed again, while when other people disclosed it felt that they at least got 10mins of discussion about the topic. It was a massive thing for me to talk about, but getting no feedback made me even less likely to disclose outside of group. I don't think it's anything to do with you (or me) that they didn't respond in the way which you would've liked, they're in therapy for a reason too, and perhaps they don't relate to people too well, or find it hard to say the right things. I think that in my situation people may not have wanted to discuss it further because they didn't understand it or were scared for my safety, though at the time I felt rejected. After that episode (about a month in) I didn't really speak again.
>And then one of our group members (we are currently a very small group of three plus the therapist since we've lost two) told us that she and her individual therapist have decided that she needs to not be so immersed in abuse "stuff" so she is letting it go and allowing forgiveness into her life/heart. I'm really glad for her, I want her to find peace. Our therapist said, "you are experiencing healing." I felt upset, like I'm doing it all wrong because not only do I not feel forgiveness, I don't want to. I'm angry and I want everyone to know I'm angry.Geesh that's hard to hear when you're having such a tough time. It's hard when those emotions build up inside when you're in the group, but you just can't express them.
>
> This week I did about a 10 minute check in (at the most) and then someone else talked for like 1/2 hour. There was a lot of back and forth between her and the therapist. (She said, "makes sense to me" when I summed up). After that, another group member talked about how hard it is to be herself when she feels vulnerable. The therapist actually turned to another group member and asked her what she thought about that and essentially the three of them talked about it.
I was sort of stung, particularly since I said during my own check in that I was struggling with wanting to be vulnerable with someone but it felt terrifying to want that. And then about 10 minutes before group ended, she turns to me and says, "you've been awfully quiet tonight." You think?! I said something stupid about being able to relate.That sounds like very poor time management on the group leader's part, but better than the one I had (we had no check ins, and no allocated time, people just talked when they wanted to). The longer it goes on, the more excluded you'll feel and the less you'll talk (and the circle goes on), is there any way you could confront it now? Perhaps in your check in by saying you've felt a little left out recently and would like to find a way to feel more included? I know it's hard, but I wasted a year of group because I felt excluded from week 4, 1.5hrs a week for 52 weeks is a lot of time in my life that I could've used better, even if I was intellectually interested in the concept of group therapy!!
>
> I'm trying to sort this out. I talked it over with my therapist. I gave him the facts in as unbiased way as I could. He said he thinks I'm right, I am being left out, or "dropped" some. But he thinks I'm making myself invisible, which is something I'm really good at. And not talking about my anger, the idea that telling stories is wrong, is like not acknowledging the elephant in the room. He pointed out that this is another thing I'm good at, just going along and making it all OK. He said it is an opportunity to practice "not being so damn nice." It is possible that I present in such a way that I never look like I need help or have confidence issues. But I do.I think he's right to a point. But it's not going to do you any good if you keep revealing things and keep getting a response that upsets you. I think you need to broach the subject of how people responding makes you feel before you make those disclosures, so it can be a bit easier on you.
>
> Group is just hard. Any tips, other than running away?I used to fantasize about running away, or jumping out the window, or hiding under my chair. Sometimes I was moments away from doing it, but I never would, I'm too "good" (!)
Do you get on with the group therapist? Do you think it *could* work? Does your T think it could work? If you really don't think this group is for you, admit it and move on, but if you think there's a chance of it working it's worth giving it your best shot. Even saying hardly anything I got quite a bit out of group, and it was a good way to change from weekly T sessions to noting at all, like a tapered transition.
Posted by Daisym on April 1, 2007, at 23:27:46
In reply to Re: Group therapy is hard » Daisym, posted by zenhussy on March 31, 2007, at 2:32:35
Thanks for the encouragement. I agree that the same things float round and round. I'm trying not to be invisible, but it is so hard for me. The well-functioning, capable Director-me shows up and could run the group very well. I just can't run the group and be in the group, if you understand what i mean. The parts that need the group are the parts that become invisible. But since I look like I'm still there, no one knows. *sigh* It is just hard to be brave, I think.
Posted by Daisym on April 1, 2007, at 23:39:41
In reply to Re: Group therapy is hard » Daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on March 31, 2007, at 10:21:28
My own therapist thinks I might be a bit intimidating to the other group members. Not because I'm scary or anything but because I'm prety psychologically sophisticated - meaning I have my own insights and read a lot. So perhaps any kind of group would present the same challenges.
I think it has turned into individual therapy with others watching in some ways. There have been times when we all chime in about a topic, but it seems lately that has been rare. It is a survivor's group so in theory it shouldn't matter that we are all pretty different - it is about how the abuse continues to haunt our lives. Somehow we keep getting away from this.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Did you ever try again?
Posted by Daisym on April 2, 2007, at 0:08:34
In reply to Re: Group therapy is hard » Daisym, posted by frida on March 31, 2007, at 10:59:13
You know, I think it is more me than her style of running the group. I know I have to put myself out there if I want to get anything back but it is so, so hard.
I think you are right, it does feel old when noone sees my pain. But that is what we are so good at doing, aren't we?
I think I'm the only one in my group whose abuser is still alive. Which makes the whole foregiveness thing even tougher.
Posted by Daisym on April 2, 2007, at 0:24:00
In reply to Re: Group therapy is hard » Daisym, posted by sunnydays on March 31, 2007, at 11:29:26
My therapist says the same thing, "hang in there and keep trying different things." If nothing else, it stirs up lots of stuff for us to talk about. I recognize it as a pattern of mine - supporting everyone else and then feeling kind of sad that I'm not being supported, but not giving anyone the opportunity to help me.
I know that in most group, lots of old sibling stuff crops up. I sure hope this isn't that!
Posted by Daisym on April 2, 2007, at 0:42:05
In reply to Re: Group therapy is hard, posted by cubic_me on March 31, 2007, at 16:23:09
I can't believe you went a whole year without saying much! If things don't get a lot better soon, I won't stay. There is no reason to keep putting myself through this. But I really want to figure out how to relate on a different level. It isn't working to be in charge all the time, even around this stuff. Or maybe especially around this stuff.
I get along OK with the group therapist. She is a very nice woman, although she has a very different style than my therapist. I think she may even be a survivor herself. I think I just need to speak up. But that is so much harder than it sounds, as you know.
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 2, 2007, at 17:35:42
In reply to Re: Group therapy is hard » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on April 1, 2007, at 23:39:41
No. I just stuck with individual. But I'm really not much of a group person anyway. I grew up in a group -- four brothers -- and I think I used up all my group tokens then. :-)
Posted by Daisym on April 5, 2007, at 0:28:16
In reply to Re: Group therapy is hard » Daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on April 2, 2007, at 17:35:42
So I reread all your posts and then I screwed up my courage and when it was my turn tonight I said, "I want to talk about how I'm feeling invisible in here." Our therapist was obviously surprised, but she really worked with me to try to get a picture of what I was saying. It is a hard thing to articulate without it sounding like, "you never pay attention to me" which isn't what I meant at all.
It made me cry to hear the responses. I was right, they really did/do see me as super-together and competent. One of the group members said, "you are so hard to read, I never know what you are thinking. You always look so calm." Another said she really didn't know that I needed them or that I was in so much pain. She said, "I know why you are here and that it is hard for you to talk about your memories, but I don't think of you as needing our support for your life." I said I needed their support for my healing.
I said I knew this was a pattern of mine - making myself invisible by being "fine"-- but I didn't want to do this anymore. I guess I'm trying to learn what Zen has learned - ask for help and let people listen. It is really hard. I'm so much better at fixing them.
Interestingly, but not surprisingly, the group therapist talked about what she did and didn't do last week. She got it wrong, she said she didn't extend an invitation to me to talk, but she did, at the very end. It was framed as, "you are awfully quiet tonight." I didn't argue with her though. She seemed a little bit defensive while trying not to be. She offered to help me enter into conversations if I can figure out how to indicate that I'd like to do that. So I'll think about that.
And at the end, everyone told me how brave I was, how they could never have been so vulnerable with their needs and how good it was that we all talked about this. Blah. Isn't that just what I didn't want to hear? I mean, yeah, I'm glad they didn't all get mad at me for bringing it up. But isn't this kind of still the original problem? They think I did the right thing - the hard thing that no one ever wants to do or actually does -- so I'm great. I'm an overachiever, again.
I cried when I got to my car. Relief, stress, frustration. It isn't group, or the therapist or anything. It is just me. I want to do something really, really insane and bad. I want to be wrong. I want someone to tell me I'm wrong and then fix me. I'm tired of the being a good girl.
It is too hard to keep being this good. Feels like I'm on a very high, very thin rope, with no net. I wish someone would push me off.
Posted by sunnydays on April 5, 2007, at 9:13:17
In reply to Re: Group Update, posted by Daisym on April 5, 2007, at 0:28:16
((((((((Daisy))))))))
I'm sorry it didn't go as well as you had hoped. I do find that such a problem. It floored me when the group therapist said to me, "Well, maybe others can't see your pain because you talk in such a matter-of-fact way. Well, I shouldn't speak for the others, maybe it's just me." I kind of thought it was her job to see my pain even if I was matter-of-fact, but it did make me realize that people just can't see it and I have to try really hard to be more vulnerable.
I don't know what advice to give you, except we are the net for you. Even if you fall off the rope, we are here to catch you, and so is your T. Keep trying... and know you have support and we can see and feel your pain.
sunnydays
Posted by zenhussy on April 5, 2007, at 13:06:57
In reply to Re: Group Update, posted by Daisym on April 5, 2007, at 0:28:16
Posted by zenhussy on April 5, 2007, at 13:10:23
In reply to Re: Group Update, posted by Daisym on April 5, 2007, at 0:28:16
Posted by Daisym on April 5, 2007, at 14:03:07
In reply to Re: Group Update, posted by sunnydays on April 5, 2007, at 9:13:17
Isn't it interesting -- I think it did go very well, so why do I feel so rotten? I've been asking myself what I was hoping for. Perhaps I was hoping I was wrong and I wasn't reading the group right. Or maybe knowing I need to change myself is just so darn hard.
Thanks for being my safety net. My therapist is always so impressed with how honest we can be here and how much support we give and get. He calls it my "real" group. :)
Posted by TherapyGirl on April 5, 2007, at 19:07:50
In reply to Re: Group Update » sunnydays, posted by Daisym on April 5, 2007, at 14:03:07
I'm glad you did what you did, Daisy. I know how hard it must have been.
I am surprised, though, that the group T was surprised that you weren't "all together." What the heck does she think you're in the group for? I don't know, I guess that was kind of mean. But I am always amazed by how UNintuitive some Ts are. Thank God you have your regular T and I have mine.
Please keep us posted on how things are going from week to week. You are so brutally honest and often vulnerable here -- I know you *can* do it in real life. I hope you feel safe enough to do it soon.
Posted by Iwillsurvive on April 5, 2007, at 22:13:19
In reply to Re: Group Update » sunnydays, posted by Daisym on April 5, 2007, at 14:03:07
I'm proly gonna say something stupid, but anyways I was just thinking, I think you got a little daisy don't you? Are you able to let her come round a bit in group? or mebbe she wouldn't do that? Cuz I wonder if your presenting with your competant 'safe mode' adult? Or mebbe even scientist? I dunno how it is for you like that. But mebbe its a mode thing?
I dunno if this makes ANY sense to anyone but me.
Mebbe there's other 'littles' in your group and they could interact? Dunno, mebbe that wouldn't work too good. Guess I don't know much but sometimes the dumbest people say something clever once upon a time. Wish I could do more. My heart aches for little daisy. She wants her to run free and play.
Take care
Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2007, at 10:37:21
In reply to Re: Group Update, posted by Daisym on April 5, 2007, at 0:28:16
> I cried when I got to my car. Relief, stress, frustration. It isn't group, or the therapist or anything. It is just me. I want to do something really, really insane and bad. I want to be wrong. I want someone to tell me I'm wrong and then fix me. I'm tired of the being a good girl.
>
> It is too hard to keep being this good. Feels like I'm on a very high, very thin rope, with no net. I wish someone would push me off.Oh boy, do I hear you.
And yet, for me at least, I can't bear not be the good girl. If I'm not the good girl, who am I?
Posted by annierose on April 6, 2007, at 16:16:27
In reply to Re: Group Update, posted by Dinah on April 6, 2007, at 10:37:21
Your thoughts of being the "good girl" and Dinah's response -- "If I'm not the good girl, who am I?" reminded me of something I read long ago in my college psych 101 course --- so who knows if this info still holds true today --- DECADES! later.
A young girl naturally goes through a rebellious period in her early to mid teens --- part of her seperation process from her mother. According to what I read, this is a vital step and needs to occur. I remembered as I was reading this that I never was a bad girl. I never wanted to upset the apple cart at home.
So maybe as adults, there remains this fear that if we don't behave perfectly, people won't like us anymore.I'm thinking, we need to do something wild and crazy .... and act rebellious for an evening ... hmmm....
Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2007, at 18:50:46
In reply to Re: Group Update, posted by annierose on April 6, 2007, at 16:16:27
I think it's more for me than others. If anything, I think I was disliked for those attributes. I was like a less adventurous Hermione.
My therapist says everyone deserves to have one thing about them that is better than the average. I wasn't pretty or popular, but I was smart and a good girl. I guess I'm afraid if I lose that, I won't be anything at all.
That's me of course. Everyone has their own reasons.
Posted by zenhussy on April 18, 2007, at 19:43:13
In reply to Re: Group Update, posted by Daisym on April 5, 2007, at 0:28:16
wow that coffee took a long time. seems that there are limited windows of clarity to certain ways of thinking and that window passed. gonna attempt a little this evening now....
>>> So I reread all your posts and then I screwed up my courage and when it was my turn tonight I said, "I want to talk about how I'm feeling invisible in here." Our therapist was obviously surprised, but she really worked with me to try to get a picture of what I was saying. It is a hard thing to articulate without it sounding like, "you never pay attention to me" which isn't what I meant at all.<<<
that is super fantastic you spoke up and articulated feeling invisible in group. well done!
>>> It made me cry to hear the responses. I was right, they really did/do see me as super-together and competent. One of the group members said, "you are so hard to read, I never know what you are thinking. You always look so calm." Another said she really didn't know that I needed them or that I was in so much pain. She said, "I know why you are here and that it is hard for you to talk about your memories, but I don't think of you as needing our support for your life." I said I needed their support for my healing.<<<
hard to hear perhaps but eye opening to now know how others, in your support group, view you and your support needs. now that it is out there have things changed any?
>>> I said I knew this was a pattern of mine - making myself invisible by being "fine"-- but I didn't want to do this anymore. I guess I'm trying to learn what Zen has learned - ask for help and let people listen. It is really hard. I'm so much better at fixing them. <<<sure, easy to take care of the biz of others as it doesn't (directly most times) involve our own stuff. that's the rationale used when dodging our own work and own stuff. sigh. good to recognize the wanting to fix others instead of you...now you can continue on working on you!
>>> Interestingly, but not surprisingly, the group therapist talked about what she did and didn't do last week. She got it wrong, she said she didn't extend an invitation to me to talk, but she did, at the very end. It was framed as, "you are awfully quiet tonight." I didn't argue with her though. She seemed a little bit defensive while trying not to be. She offered to help me enter into conversations if I can figure out how to indicate that I'd like to do that. So I'll think about that. <<<
argh...frustrating to know what you wish to express not have it mirrored back to know the point got home. do think about ways to indicate your wishes to join in...especially when you most need to and least think you're able to.>>> And at the end, everyone told me how brave I was, how they could never have been so vulnerable with their needs and how good it was that we all talked about this. Blah. Isn't that just what I didn't want to hear? I mean, yeah, I'm glad they didn't all get mad at me for bringing it up. But isn't this kind of still the original problem? They think I did the right thing - the hard thing that no one ever wants to do or actually does -- so I'm great. I'm an overachiever, again.<<<
amazing how much we can beat the crud outta ourselves over POSITIVE attention or compliments but it is true for so many here on this board and IRL.
keep remebering that you're in group for your needs, for your learning, for your exposure to different ways of interaction in the context of a support group for survivors. you have rights and needs and your going to group isn't to facilitate the healing of the other members....it is to facilitate YOUR HEALING.
sorry if that's the harsh way of saying that but you're working on YOU and that's that! the zen way of no sugar coat on what needs saying...ionsho
>>> I cried when I got to my car. Relief, stress, frustration. It isn't group, or the therapist or anything. It is just me. I want to do something really, really insane and bad. I want to be wrong. I want someone to tell me I'm wrong and then fix me. I'm tired of the being a good girl.<<<
others posts have better addressed this good girl issue...nothing more to add from this poster.>>> It is too hard to keep being this good. Feels like I'm on a very high, very thin rope, with no net. I wish someone would push me off. <<<
you HAVE been pushing yourself. you're so "good" that you won't even allow yourself to acknowledge how much work you've done.
how's this?--BEING GOOD DOES NOT EQUAL BEING SILENT
you've not been silent for a long time and as you heal your voice keeps getting louder and gaining strength. kudos to you daisy for your hard work (and the phD! congrats)
Posted by sunnydays on April 18, 2007, at 20:16:28
In reply to Re: Group Update---looooong coffee break ;) » Daisym, posted by zenhussy on April 18, 2007, at 19:43:13
Wow - zen's post made me reread this thread, and it is so perfect to how I felt tonight. I talked in group about how I feel invisible and like I'm not connecting at the same level as other people. It was hard because they basically agreed they didn't know how to connect with me, and that I'm not approachable. Which is hard, because all I want to be is approachable. I just want people to know me and like me. But it was such a huge risk, and I still don't feel like they understand where I'm coming from. The group leader definitely does, but I'm not sure anyone else does.
sunnydays
Posted by Daisym on April 18, 2007, at 23:53:51
In reply to Re: Group Update, posted by sunnydays on April 18, 2007, at 20:16:28
It is hard to speak up but you did it. Now you have to try and leave yourself open as much as you can, so the group members can try and connect to you. And you to them. The hardest question my own therapist asked me (privately of course) was, "do you need them? Or do you just want to need them?" Ouch. Really hard to admit - I don't know how to need them or for what - and I'm scared to need them. But I need to be heard and I need to be able to be less than perfect. So I guess the question to you is, "what do you need from the group?"
Hard, isn't it?
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