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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 13:30:45
Today, I am feeling like going back to my old T, and saying sorry for whatever I put him through. Tell him I didn't mean it. Tell him that I understood that he never meant to hurt me - not even a bit. Tell him that all that hurt and disappointment and frustration was really about my dad and not about him. Tell him that all my attraction towards him was all what was caused by my dad's inappropriate behaviour towards me and that I just projected everything on to him.
I just want to apologize to him for making my therapy with him more than he was ever willing to give it to me.. and just trying to hang on hang on to him, when he said so many times to find someone else nearby who I could visit and be on face to face with. I feel like I just kept pushing me on to him all these years and I was just trying to stretch him to the US model when I should have understood his style in India was totally different.
Posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 13:36:28
In reply to Wanting to apologize to my ex T, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 13:30:45
It is the t's role to be understanding. It is tribute to your character that you want to apologize, but your behavior, emotions, and actions are all okay. You did nothing wrong.
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 14:06:13
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T, posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 13:36:28
Thank you. My T has never blamed me - not even once so far.
Only I feel like he didn't have any resources at his disposal to understand all that what I was going through.. he didn't have so much access to internet, they don't teach about all these transference in his college in India, they don't talk about transference especially sexual transference, he didn't have even access to good book stores in the remote town where he was in India. He has never been to the US, and doesn't have any idea of how therapy is done here.I had access to all these. I was aware of both the cultures, have been in both the places. Had endless access to internet and such discussion boards. I could have understood things little earlier instead of hurting myself so much over him. Or I could have atleast gone to someone here long back. I didn't do any of it. Instead I just ended up getting hurt hurt hurt, and kept asking me to help me out. I am just thankful he didn't think of me as just trying to flirt with him. Anybody else in India would have straight away concluded that I was behaving like a slut.. they would never understand all these transferences and projections and everything. I should have been aware of it.
Posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 14:12:23
In reply to Wanting to apologize to my ex T, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 13:30:45
I can totally understand that you want to contact him, especially after you have had these new insights (although I don’t think you need to apologise for anything). The idea might give you a sense of closure. But I’m not 100% sure that sharing your insights with him will help you feel that way you want to feel. If he doesn’t reply, will you be devastated?
Do you think the transference might still be at work in this wish to contact him? Do you think it’s maybe a way of still hanging onto him? Might you be able to talk to your new T about your insights and your desire to share them with your old T?
Just a thought; maybe I’m off the mark. I know this is really tough for you. I miss my ex-T too, and today has been one of my hard days.
(((((pinkeye)))))
Tamar
Posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 14:26:29
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 14:12:23
You did nothing wrong. Yes, I'm saying it again. You felt how you felt and you do not need to make excuses for it. You are a normal human being. You feel. You don't always have to be soooo understanding to everyone and always be the mediator, especially to the detriment of yourself. You are allowed thoughts and feelings and reactions, too.
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 14:29:37
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 14:12:23
Tamar, I think that strikes a chord. What you have said is possibly true. Maybe that is what I am trying to do - somehow still hang on to him.
And now that you said it, I am thinking it possibly is a phenomenon I had with my dad as well. It may not be true with my ex T, but with my dad, I always assumed more responsibility than I should have taken. That is what my new T keeps saying. That I should let others acknowledge their own mistakes instead of always acting on my behalf and their behalf. I always tried to defend my dad, never letting him down. And to a good extent, I do that with my husband also.. Somehow keep thinking that I should have been able to make a difference. I think it is possible that it is the same transference that I am now projecting on to my ex T.
Thanks for pointing that out. My God, this transference is really a huge issue.. I need to be very careful .. it tries to manipulate me into all different ways of thinking.
Posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 14:29:41
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T » PM80, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 14:06:13
one more thing: It sounds like he (your indian t) was a good man who truly cared. I would put money on the fact that he NEVER thought of you as a slut.
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 14:33:30
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T, posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 14:26:29
Why do I have this urge to cover everything up, and assume responsibility for everything? I am having tears in my eyes as I read your post. It is not that I am trying to be even good.. but I have this almost irresistible urge to take responbility and fix things. I always always feel that I am the one in charge, and I should be able to make things right.. I always feel that I am responsible for everything.
And frankly, I don't know how else to feel.
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 14:36:01
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T, posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 14:29:41
That is true. He was an extremely good man. I know that. I don't know what he thought of me, but I do know that he is a gem of a person. That makes me feel all the more that I am to be blamed for everything. And my dad was the same.. He was also a very good person at heart.
Posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 14:48:19
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T » PM80, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 14:36:01
Yeah, I understand the wanting to fix everything. You have tears in your eyes because there are so many emotions tied up in your wanting to fix everything, at least that's my guess. And because you generally feel that no one understands, but here you get that glimmer of connection and it is so wonderful. It's scary to hold onto (and belive in) a beautiful thing if you might irretrievably lose it. It seems easier to just assume that things can never be that good. Do I make sense or am I too abstract? I do that a lot with myself - think abstractly. I think this touching home for me too. Okay, now I'm starting to babble...
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 15:04:29
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T, posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 14:48:19
You are too abstract. I don't understand what you mean. Care to explain more?
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 15:17:07
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T, posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 14:48:19
Actually at the same time, I have been told that I am not taking any responsibility and control of things also. I have been told both - that I take over responsibility, and that I don't take any responsibility... That I behave like a kid, and behave like an overgrown adult - at the very same time.. And it is confusing to me.
Posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 15:32:42
In reply to Wanting to apologize to my ex T, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 13:30:45
Just a question: can you be sure your T didn’t understand about transference? I would be very surprised, despite the culture differences. Perhaps I’m wrong in making this assumption, but psychology depends very heavily on Freud, especially historically. And transference was one of Freud’s key ideas. People don’t necessarily agree with every word that Freud wrote, but I would assume that Ts all over the world would have encountered the idea of transference during their training. But maybe I’m wrong in making that assumption. Though I suppose that even if your T knew all about transference in Freudian theory, he was practising in a sociocultural context that’s very different from the US, and maybe the theory is interpreted and critiqued differently in different contexts.
> I need to be very careful .. it tries to manipulate me into all different ways of thinking.
Oh yes - I do the same thing myself. That’s how I recognise it! ShortE caught me at it the last time I felt that way. I think most of us have experienced it from time to time.
> It is not that I am trying to be even good..
I sometimes wonder if we have problems precisely *because* we want to be good. If we didn’t care about being good, we wouldn’t worry about failing, and we wouldn’t have the emotional depth to experience profound mental suffering. The world needs more people like us!
> That I behave like a kid, and behave like an overgrown adult - at the very same time.. And it is confusing to me.
About being responsible: I wonder if that’s a job your mother should have done when you were growing up, but you ended up having to do it because your father delegated your mother’s responsibilities to you (presumably without your mother’s permission). So instead of your mother taking responsibility for adult relationships with men, you had to do it, when you were too young to be ready for it. It’s hardly surprising that you try to live up to the expectation of responsibility and simultaneously try to evade it. Just a hunch; I could be wrong. But letting go of that demand for responsibility /control is hard to do! I’m still working on it :)
> And my dad was the same.. He was also a very good person at heart.
It’s great that you recognise your dad’s goodness, even though you acknowledge the pain of some of his parenting mistakes.
You’re doing some hard work: hang in there!
Tamar
Posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 15:57:39
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T » PM80, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 15:17:07
Sorry. I think I was probably talking about myself. When things are going well and I think I've found someone I can trust, I have had things really fall through. So I am sometimes afraid to believe in good things, supportive people, that come my way. If it feels so good when they are there; the contrasts when I learn the truth that I cannot trust them is so sharp. I so want their support, but it can be such a sharp razor to the heart if they are undeserving of my trust.
Anyway, give yourself some room to breathe. You do not have to be perfect.
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 16:14:54
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 15:32:42
My T did know about transference. But I am guessing he didn't have the full relevance of it taught to him. I knew about transference 2 and a half years back itself, but I didn't realize the full power of it till now. That is what I meant.
>> Oh yes - I do the same thing myself. That’s how I recognise it! ShortE caught me at it the last time I felt that way. I think most of us have experienced it from time to time.
Yeah I think our brains have a wonderful way of making things look like we want them to be :-)
> I sometimes wonder if we have problems precisely *because* we want to be good. If we didn’t care about being good, we wouldn’t worry about failing, and we wouldn’t have the emotional depth to experience profound mental suffering. The world needs more people like us!Maybe we are trying to be constantly striving for something more than what we should be.. lot of people are good, but maybe they just realize their limitations and accept their fall backs. Maybe we don't. That could be the difference. I wouldn't go as far to say that to be good, you need to have mental health problems :-)
>
> > That I behave like a kid, and behave like an overgrown adult - at the very same time.. And it is confusing to me.
>
> About being responsible: I wonder if that’s a job your mother should have done when you were growing up, but you ended up having to do it because your father delegated your mother’s responsibilities to you (presumably without your mother’s permission). So instead of your mother taking responsibility for adult relationships with men, you had to do it, when you were too young to be ready for it. It’s hardly surprising that you try to live up to the expectation of responsibility and simultaneously try to evade it. Just a hunch; I could be wrong. But letting go of that demand for responsibility /control is hard to do! I’m still working on it :)
I think you are perfectly right about this responsibility part. I think I keep swtiching myself between a child and an adult (that too an overgrown one), and people get confused of what I really am. They think I am trying to manipulate, when I am just plain incapable of behaving in a stable state. Thanks for pointing it out. You seem very wise. How old are you?
>
> > And my dad was the same.. He was also a very good person at heart.
>
> It’s great that you recognise your dad’s goodness, even though you acknowledge the pain of some of his parenting mistakes.
>
> You’re doing some hard work: hang in there!Thanks so much.
>
> Tamar
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 16:17:15
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T, posted by PM80 on April 28, 2005, at 15:57:39
Thanks PM80. We all talk about ourselves. That is how we learn things.
I have felt the same what you have written here - time and again. I think after a few trials, we just give up the ability to trust anymore.
Posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 17:12:52
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 16:14:54
> My T did know about transference. But I am guessing he didn't have the full relevance of it taught to him. I knew about transference 2 and a half years back itself, but I didn't realize the full power of it till now. That is what I meant.
Ah. I see what you mean.
> I wouldn't go as far to say that to be good, you need to have mental health problems :-)
Absolutely!
> I think you are perfectly right about this responsibility part. I think I keep swtiching myself between a child and an adult (that too an overgrown one), and people get confused of what I really am. They think I am trying to manipulate, when I am just plain incapable of behaving in a stable state.
Yeah, lots of people get a bit confused when confronted with inconsistency. But the people worth knowing make an effort to understand. And it will get better as you keep working on things.
> How old are you?
I’m 35 but I feel more like 50 :) Seriously, though, I think I just got very interested in people’s motivations when I had kids. And then I got depressed and suddenly I had to think about my own behaviour and motivations, and how my illness affects my kids.
How old are you?
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 17:20:44
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 17:12:52
I am 28. I enjoy interacting with you. Thanks for your posts for me.
With kids around, you would want to be all the more responsible. Because everything you do and say, affects them. I have told my husband strictly - whatever he wants to fight, howmuchever he wants to fight, he is do all that before we start trying for a kid. Once we have a kid, none of our differences should come into play in the house - till the kid becomes 18. I feel so protective about my kid - yet unborn, but I have such high desires - want the kid to be extremely happy and cared for. I don't care if the kid doesn't study or make it well in life, but I want it to be very happy.
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 19:07:52
In reply to Re: Wanting to apologize to my ex T » PM80, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 15:17:07
> Actually at the same time, I have been told that I am not taking any responsibility and control of things also. I have been told both - that I take over responsibility, and that I don't take any responsibility... That I behave like a kid, and behave like an overgrown adult - at the very same time.. And it is confusing to me.
I'm sort of like that too. But in my case it's very clear what's going on. I consider myself a very responsible, very precocious, very good little girl.
This is the end of the thread.
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