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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AdaGrace on September 21, 2005, at 15:44:32
Of course I will begin by "I don't mean to be uncivil or offensive to others".
But really, didn't jyl just speak out and say something without thinking and haven't we all done that? Posting drunk, well that's fine and good, I've done that many times. I'm not condoning her either way, but I'll tell you something, we all have sensitive areas in which we can become offended by another's actions whether it be deemed uncivil by others or not. I have had my feelings hurt more than once on here and it went unnoticed, I got over it. As in life. Sh*t happens, people are mean, rude, insensitive, and say things that they either don't mean or don't intend to be harful. Sometimes they mean to be that way, and sometimes they don't.
Can any one of us say that we have never at some point in out life said something to or about someone that was hurtful? Did we all get our hands spanked? If anyone answered NO to that question they are more perfect than me and of course will redeem their rewards in the afterlife much quicker than I.
Civility schmillity. Is that what the world is in reality?
It's like road rage, I've had a few. I'm not talking about when soemthing horrible happens and someone shoots someone else, but mild everyday road rage where a hor gets honked at the stoplight because the car in front doesn't go forward fast enough, or the bird gets flipped when another car cuts you off on the freeway. Woudln't it be lovely if everyone on the streets and highways were perfect little gentlemen and ladies and always said thank you and please and of course NEVER pulled out in from of another car? Yeah right.
SNAP OUT OF IT PEOPLE!! This is the real world. There are consequences for actions that harm others, of course there are, and noone wants to be told something negative about themselves or be talked to in a negative tone. But let's face it, that's life. Doesn't make it right, but it's life.
Suport, that's what this site is all about isn't it. But the fact remains that it is open to the public in a matter of speaking. We all have good days and bad days and as a result of that, we sometimes say or do things that might be considered innapropriate. Is it being supportive to not try to figure out the problem and try to resolve it, but rather instead issue a PBC or a block? Gives that person time to cool off certainly, but a spankin is a spankin. Noone likes them, and there are serious discussions out there regarding corporal punishment.
I said something about welfare recipients (a generalized statement) and was blocked, and of course my thread which strayed from it's original theme died a quick death and as a result, I never got the chance to appologize appropriately because it was moved to freakin politics where it ran it's course regarding things other than what I was trying to say. Right now there is a post on Writing in which someone said they "dread my posts" (a very specific post directed towards me). Well Wahhhhh, that hurts my feelings. But I don't need a mommy stepping in and telling that person to go sit in the corner. I got over it, and realized after reading that particular post exactly what the poster was saying and understood it was not negatively driven.
Good grief, this just seems to be overly done. I completely agree that there has to be a line and when posts become threatening or extreemly offensive in language then things need to be cut off. But otherwise they might just work themselves out.
Of course this will get moved to admin, go for it, I don't care. I have seriously grown tired of this site. It's not helping me, and I am so sick of the "please be civil" malarky. How about we just all grow up and grow thinker skins.
AdaGrace
Posted by Nickengland on September 21, 2005, at 15:44:35
In reply to Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do?, posted by AdaGrace on September 21, 2005, at 8:46:18
Hi AdaGrace
>SNAP OUT OF IT PEOPLE!! This is the real world.
Yes there is the real world, but the internet is seen as a virtual world or a virtual reality ~ so a virtual world in certain repects.
In a virtual world i.e posting in an internet mental health forum written rules are made by the owner ~ that being Dr Bob.
>Civility schmillity. Is that what the world is in reality?
This internet forum is based on civility rules ~ So this worlds reality, or "vitual reality" is. The real world is something else, although people being civil to one another does make it more peaceful I think where possible.
>Suport, that's what this site is all about isn't it.
Apart from the Administration board, which isn't for support and education from what i'm aware of.
>Of course this will get moved to admin, go for it, I don't care.
Did you post it on social because you was seeking support from others?
>I have seriously grown tired of this site.
I'm sorry to hear that.
>It's not helping me, and I am so sick of the "please be civil" malarky.
Back in the real world over here, there is a similar thing people can recieve if they're not considered to act civil in real life. Its called an Anti Social Behaviour Order or ASBO for short which is issued by the Government, just another reason why I hate England, although no one likes anti social behaviour but there are others ways of dealing with it but it depends on how one wants to enforce their rules and laws.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docs/asbocont.html
>How about we just all grow up and grow thinker skins.
? I'm okay, thanks.
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 21, 2005, at 15:44:35
In reply to Re: Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do?, posted by Nickengland on September 21, 2005, at 9:48:51
> Hi AdaGrace
>
> >SNAP OUT OF IT PEOPLE!! This is the real world.
>
Snap out of what? Most people were really understanding of J.Y.L's position..
The real world is created by people and people's attitudes, and that means us, no need to blindly accept that what "is" is right.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 21, 2005, at 17:20:52
In reply to Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do?, posted by AdaGrace on September 21, 2005, at 8:46:18
Hurting people often lash out at others.
That is true enough.
The trouble comes when A is hurt and lashes out at B and then B is hurt and lashes out at A and then other people get all protective and start lashing out too and before you know it things have degenerated rather.The rule here is fairly simple (in the majority of cases) and it is supposed to stop the above process at the first step.
Yeah, nobody is perfect.
But there are still consequences for infractions.
And the consequences DO have an affect on our future behaviour too.If there weren't consequences for Jyl's post then there would be an implicit message that it is acceptable to post the things she did about other posters here.
But that is not okay.
And if that sort of behaviour was acceptable here then I would leave.
Because the civility rules help keep me safe from other people lashing out at me.
I think that people here tend to be fairly sympathetic when people are hurting.
But it is hard to sympathise with someone when they are lashing out.
Its about learning to express ones hurt appropriately in a way that doesn't result in hurting another.
Posted by crushedout on September 21, 2005, at 17:54:53
In reply to Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do?, posted by AdaGrace on September 21, 2005, at 8:46:18
> SNAP OUT OF IT PEOPLE!! This is the real world.I agree with what gabbi said, but I also want to point out that this actually isn't the real world. This is babbleland. In some ways it's better than the real world and in other ways, I suppose, it's worse. But we have to live by the rules, and everyone who's been here for a while knows it. Sometimes we violate them even though we know it. But that's part of the fun of it. Or whatever.
Point is: not real world. Stupid point i guess.
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 21, 2005, at 18:08:45
In reply to Re: Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do?, posted by crushedout on September 21, 2005, at 17:54:53
I don't think it's a stupid point.
If it was the same as everything else in the "real world" what would be the point of being here?I mean, you don't go to a prayer group meeting and say "Why the hell is everyone here praying?"
Well.. I don't anyway : )
Posted by crushedout on September 21, 2005, at 18:10:28
In reply to Re: Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do? » crushedout, posted by Gabbix2 on September 21, 2005, at 18:08:45
you're so funny, gabbi. i've missed you. (sorry, back to being administrative!)
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 21, 2005, at 18:16:43
In reply to Re: Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do? » Gabbix2, posted by crushedout on September 21, 2005, at 18:10:28
Besides
You can't just have it one way .. in order to be more like "the real world".. lashing back at JYL would have to be an expected response and people would have to be expected to be thick skinned about that too.. no?
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 21, 2005, at 18:17:15
In reply to Re: Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do? » Gabbix2, posted by crushedout on September 21, 2005, at 18:10:28
>
> you're so funny, gabbi. i've missed you. (sorry, back to being administrative!)I've missed you too babe!
Posted by AdaGrace on September 21, 2005, at 20:20:27
In reply to Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do?, posted by AdaGrace on September 21, 2005, at 8:46:18
Well, it would seem that I was moved without a little 'note' to tell me so.
I just wanted to say that I found my original post interesting, yet disturbing. And right now I am drunk. Whereas this morning, when I was ranting, I wasn't drunk. Go figure.
And since I didn't click the little thingy about including the original post that I am following up to, I will just have to go by memory.....
the word "har" or "hor" however in the world I spelled it, was meant to be "car".
So be it.
It is as before, my point is easily lost due to specific notations to certain words or sentences in my post. I still feel the same way.
Of course, noone directly noted the fact that I repeatedly said that there should be rules, and that I believed in them. But apparently, my point got misunderstood. The point, which I will restate, is this, doesn't it come just a little too quick to issue a PBC or a Block before the issue gets worked out.
We get our spankin, we come back contrite, and all is better and we get ice-cream. Isn't that just a tad superficial?
How many of you believe that being blocked really teaches someone a lesson?
I agree, sometimes it needs to happen, but other times, it just seems to isolate the individual and make things worse. Take me for instance. I am seriously pissed that I was blocked. I was misunderstood, and wasn't given the chance to rephrase, or when I did, it was misunderstood again, anyway I had no clue gardenergirl was a deputy. So when that PBC came, I thought, Okay, I'll try again. But I guess I didn't explain myself well enough. I guess what I said was offensive to some, and I seriously did not mean it that way, but it doesn't matter, because now I feel as if I am deemed a welfare recipient hater, and of course I am not. So I feel put down myself. But I'll deal with it without tattling to the teacher or sitting back smiling while someone gets their punishment. But the thing is, the thread, because I was blocked, was not able to work itself out.
So, I stated my point again, and I sit here and realize that there is no "win" in an arguement like this. I have found that for the most part people are supportive on this site, and I have made some very good friends. But when it comes to discussing something other than how d*mn depressed I am, I just don't seem to do that well. It's as if there is an underlying theme here that I should follow where I just simply don't have in depth conversations because someone is bound to take it wrong and get their feelings hurt. I could say "blue" and someone would find that offensive. It's as if this site tries to make the posters feel all warm and fuzzy and perhaps that gives us all a false sense of security. I still think that we as human beings should be aware that there are things out there in this world that aren't good. There are people who might one day say something mean to us. There are situations in which we might be uncomfortable. We need to learn to deal with that on our own. At least I think I do. This isn't kindergarden. This isn't fantasy land, and this isn't the movies. People are people. People make mistakes. People hurt other people and as a result people get hurt feelings. I've got book loads of hurt feelings. But you know what? I allow those hurt feeling inside. I don't block them very well. Yet I know that it is human nature to sometimes hurt or be hurt. I also realize that given time, hurt feelings can lessen. I know, I know, I'm generalizing, and I am sitting here with a horific broken heart that I can't seem to get over, so what the h*ll do I think I am talking about. Nevermind.
We all have the same britches to get glad in that we got mad in. Twas what my Mama always said.I guess I should just talk about sewing and cooking and then things won't be so upseting. No thanks on that.
AdaGrace
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 21, 2005, at 21:26:04
In reply to Re: Moved Without Notice, posted by AdaGrace on September 21, 2005, at 20:20:27
I agree with you. I think the blocks and p.b.c's are handed out too readily as well.
I'm sorry that I misunderstood you. I too think that it's much less patronizing to allow things to be worked out, as they were in this case without the need for always blocking.
I guess though, and this is just me thinking out loud.. there has to be some set standard of "incivility " otherwise the blocks would be more inconsistant than they are, so they have to exist even when things are worked out.
Posted by sleepygirl on September 22, 2005, at 0:06:24
In reply to Didn't JYL Say Things Many of Us Do?, posted by AdaGrace on September 21, 2005, at 8:46:18
I appreciate what you have expressed, but this is a "community" and every community has certain expectations within it. Limits are not necessarily a bad thing - do they fit every situation? - no, but they offer us some consistency and boundaries and consequently some safety.
I'm quite certain the civility rules don't keep everyone from getting offended or spoken to in a rude or insensitive way, but people rise to expectations, and I suppose that's what civility rules give us- an expectation that we will consider how our words will be heard.
Personally, I've been sorry to see a number of people blocked, but at least the effect of what was said was paid some serious attention to.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 24, 2005, at 9:06:54
In reply to Re: Moved Without Notice, posted by AdaGrace on September 21, 2005, at 20:20:27
> Well, it would seem that I was moved without a little 'note' to tell me so.
Sorry, I didn't think you needed one:
> > Of course this will get moved to admin, go for it, I don't care.
> when it comes to discussing something other than how d*mn depressed I am, I just don't seem to do that well.
Maybe try working with a civility buddy?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050823/msgs/557720.html
Bob
Posted by AdaGrace on September 26, 2005, at 20:40:47
In reply to Re: Moved Without Notice, posted by Dr. Bob on September 24, 2005, at 9:06:54
> > Well, it would seem that I was moved without a little 'note' to tell me so.
>
> Sorry, I didn't think you needed one:> > > Of course this will get moved to admin, go for it, I don't care.
I was being sarcastic. Are you being facetious?
>
> > when it comes to discussing something other than how d*mn depressed I am, I just don't seem to do that well.
>That was a tongue in cheek comment.
> Maybe try working with a civility buddy?
>
Taking the time to send my posts to someone else for review would require just that, time, and would seem to me to take the sponteneaty (sp?)out of my thoughts, and create more uncertainty on my part. Not to mention disrupt my creative flow. And if I had been talking trash about someone or to someone I would know it. (Or so I thought)See, I could have taken the time to use the spell checker for that word, but really didn't feel like it.
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050823/msgs/557720.html
>
> BobYou've sidestepped my entire point by the way.
But I think I'll just go back to the writing board where apparently there is more "freedom" of speech &/or thought.
AdaGrace
This is the end of the thread.
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