Posted by rayww on October 16, 2004, at 16:42:44
In reply to Re: faith, posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2004, at 0:04:56
You have thought-provoking insight, and I would like to respond.
> >I know that some people think that which particular religion one chooses is due to social and cultural factors rather than one hitting apon the 'right' or 'true' religion. That what religion one chooses is more a matter of socialisation - which perhaps means that ones religion, like perhaps ones morals aren't so much a 'conscious choice' but are rather accepted becuase one doesn't know any different. This is supposed to be supported by the finding that what religion people are tends to have more to do with what others in the region believe.
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I have never heard it put quite like that before. I would assume that those conclusions were drawn from people within the religions you speak of, as well as from outsiders not peeking in. May I explain why I feel that we don't fall into those categories? We have no geographical boundaries, we speak and teach in all languages, and though we began small in number, are beginning to dot the earth. We do not cluster. We mix and mingle, support local governments, attend public schools, have trades and business, and don't receive pay for church work of any kind. Humanitarian aid throughout the world, and perpetual education fund, helping people discover for themselves who God is (missionary work), genealogy, and helping preserve the traditional family are some of the things we do. If one were to categorize us (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) would you put us under disaster relief, humanitarian aid, missionaries, educational institutions, genealogy society, Christian-Love your neighbors, or salt of the earth? There are those who ignore all of the above and label us a false prophet Satanic cult. As Socrates and Christ both said, "they know not what they do".
>>There are 'clusters' of different religious faiths around the globe, rather than everyone converging on a single one (which some expect would happen if there was one true religion) or the different religions being randomly distributed if everyone made a conscious choice.<<<
Perhaps in the beginning there was only one true religion, but look what became of it. People who believe in Biblical history believe that within a few years of creation, there was already murder to get gain, secret combinations, and great wickedness, so great that God saved only 8 people and a representation of every species and baptized the earth with water. Some believe Adam and the Garden of Eden was located near Adam Ondi Ahman http://scriptures.lds.org/chphotos/10 here in America, and that as the flood waters subsided, the ark settled on a peak near the holy land, and America became known as one of the Promised Lands http://scriptures.lds.org/gsp/prmsdlndSome also believe that God set the rainbow as a sign that he would never again destroy the earth with water, and as long as the rainbow appears, the earth will not be destroyed by fire either during that year. http://scriptures.lds.org/gsf/fldtnhst
I personally think that bits and spatterings of truth have filtered down into every religion, but none (except a complete restoration) has all.> > ...... We do not just blindly follow our parents morals, and we do not just blindly follow our parents faiths. If they do not do it for us, we are likely to choose an alternative path, but if we find them satisfying then why not just consider it a choice that we have made?
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Exactly! Right on! I would like to meet one person who has blindly followed their parents morals and beliefs into adulthood. Is there one?>> I think that religion can become an escape from reality in much the same way that drugs etc can be. Both can be used to assist, and both can be used to ones detriment. I do hear you, though, that some people seem to choose a path that is likely to lead to pain and suffering. We must simply conclude (like Socrates) that they know not what they do as nobody would choose bad willingly.
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I think many do choose bad willingly. My 4-yr-old GS openly admits he wants to be the bad guy that makes everyone cry. I also think that many know better than they do, and I know there are tons who believe there is one true church, yet want no part of it. As far as using religion like one would a drug, possibly, but if so which would be the true high and which would be the counterfeit?>>I guess I would like to say that charity doesn't have to be received from god (seeing as I am an athiest), as, if I didn't say that, I would be left having to conclude that there is no charity! Maybe reflecting on ones concept of god results in a certain kind of charity, however.
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Most think of charity as the world defines it, giving to the poor, charitable donations, etc. A scripture definition of charity may have more than one interpretation as well.
> > Would the measure of your faith be your works?
> > Would the measure be found in the "why" you do what you do, and in the motivation, and in your thoughts?
> > I would have to say both of the above. I would say that the measure of faith and the measure of belief are ones practices and activities. (Including the verbal activities of reporting on what one believes and / or has faith in). Morality seems to have a lot to do with ones intentions: if I do something 'good' for evil purposes then it seems that we should indeed take intention into account with respect to deciding what is moral.
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Well stated. Our discussion makes me wonder if Mormons (aside from our belief in God) have more in common with athiests than with other Christians. Is there a religious organization called Athiest? (poor question)I know from your dialogue here that you have very strong beliefs. Whether you have discovered them for yourself, or have been taught by good parents, it doesn't matter. You seem to be comfortable and confident in your chosen path. All the best to you.
poster:rayww
thread:401057
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040914/msgs/403901.html