Posted by muffled on December 13, 2010, at 23:56:06
In reply to Re: For my dear Muffled..., posted by Solstice on December 13, 2010, at 21:25:41
> > I hate to sound like SUCH a negative pain here....but Bob is a friggin ROCK I say. Trying to make him chnge is like trying to chip away at a rock with a rubber mallet.
>
> I don't know if that's really fair, Muff. Bob has made changes... changes that were of benefit to the community. In particular I'm thinking of his agreeing to ask for rephrasing and apologies and then allowing time for a response before handing out blocks. That is a significant change.*but have you noticed, that the changes are always what HE wants. And then he tries to push them on us, and then blames us when we don't do what he wants....? :(
Bobs doing what he must to keep his site alive, but his concessions on the real big ticket item hasn't really moved much...and hence, the site flounders...I goto say, you are a WAY better person than I. I would not put the huge effort forward that you are Solstice, to help Bob when he just sits there and lets you do the work. Or are you in communication w/him via email? Which doesn't bother me, but would make more sense to me as to how you seem to be so sure as to where the mysterious Bob is 'at' in his thinking????? I know I never ever understood him, tho beleive me, I tried...
> Bob won't be able to make all the changes every different person would like to see. That's an expectation impossible to fill. I think it's important for us to give it a chance - and to understand that baby steps are still steps. :-) Bob will not be able to meet every expectation that is here in the Community. But that does not mean that he is not genuinely trying to put something together that will be in the best interests of the whole Community. It's not about making everyone 'happy' - as much as it's about making this place as safe as it can be, while still giving it room to be as thriving as it can be.*I don't even understand what 'safe' IS to Bob.... :(
When I was a regular poster here at babble, it was not other posters I was afraid of...it was Bob :(
I agree, that we can't make everyone happy, we are human, and presumably , given the nature of the site, have issues.
So ya, there will be probs from time to time. I would expect that. But at this site, the biggest prob is the punitive blocks, the fear of blocks, the shame of them, the not understanding the why of them....
> > I think the council *could* be a good idea, but ONLY if Bob gives it the ability to DO things.
>
> He said he will give Council the power to shorten blocks, and the power to release those blocked posters.*so then, Bob will still be doing the blocking? Or will blocks be looked at by council and council be given the power to decide if a block is even merited?
> > Only if Bob is willing to chnage blocks etc as I mentioned above.
>
> Not 'only if' Muff. He can block someone for a year - and use any formula he wants. And if Council thinks its excessive, and that the blocked poster is working to stick with civility guidelines, then they can cut that block all the way down to the minimum if that's what the majority of them vote to do.*what is the minimum???clearly many want to know this...
So....I think somehow I am having troubles digesting this.....so councils role would be to refute Bobs descions? And Bob would be ok with this? He would go along with majority council rule? Cuz in the past, he didn't always listen to the majority of poaters, or majority of deps either.
>
> > All I am seeing is alot of reluctance on Bobs part..., alot of rather passive resistance to change....
>
> I don't think so, Muff. The only reluctance I'm seeing right now is his reluctance to change the method of seating Council. Other than that, I think he's been exceedingly generous.*ok, we'll have to agree to disagree on THAT! :)
> > I feel badly always narcking away at Bob, but the fact of the matter is, this is HIS SITE and if he is not on board, nothing will truly change....
>
> I think you're afraid - because blocks have been traumatic for you. It is his site, but he has made a decent number of changes - which means he is willing to make changes. I think things will continue to evolve (or 'refine' :-)
*we shall see.
> > If he won't change some things before the board is implemnented, if he doesn't show some good faith....well, I for one sure wouldn't walk into it....
>
> He has made changes (asking for rephrasing & apologies before issuing blocks). I think he has shown good faith by making his proposal for turning power to release blocks over to a Council chosen by the community.* I have seen this repeated over and over.....I would need more...he hurt alot of people...
>And you don't have to walk into anything. It would warm my heart to see you allow yourself to coast along right now and let yourself trust those of us here that you have faith in to push this thing along to a better place than it has been. There are lots of really good folks here Muff.
*I AM allowing you guys to carry the ball. I am just asking questions so that everyone has some clarity here...
There were always good folks here...Bob flipped them off...he didn't care about them or their concerns...just cares about 'The Masses' or something...
>I know you know that. Please don't let yourself fret. Let some of the others of us carry the fretting for a while. We will fret on your behalf. What you can probably count on, is that it can't get worse here - it can only get better. It might not happen tomorrow - but I really do think that it will eventually happen. It is hard to wait.. but we are going to have to wait until we get it put together. Remember - baby steps ARE STILL STEPS!*It can't get worse.....oh yes it can. ALOT of people could get hurt again....:(
I hated it before and I will hate to see it again should it happen, which is why I ask questions.
> > As someone said, it still sounds rather like a slightly more complex(more work) deputy position....and as people who have been here any length of time, well, we know how little influence they had on Bob.
> It's nothing like deputies. Banish that thought!*well, it's people volunteering to work under Bob....
Its people expected to take Bob in good faith(its what you want them to do...)
Its people 'thinking' they know wassup...but that may not be the reality, cuz as usual, Bob is being about as clear as mud...
Its people who will find they may well be treated very differently than they were before....there may well be a loss there...
Nope, can't banish the thot...
poster:muffled
thread:965628
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101201/msgs/973510.html