Posted by Solstice on December 13, 2010, at 21:25:41
In reply to Re: clarity???, posted by muffled on December 13, 2010, at 20:37:16
> >"But my suggestion that Council be able to set aside blocks altogether met resistence. And that's ok. It may really be better to just get Council off the ground as simply as possible - and see how it goes. Refining can always be done later. "
>
> *ok, this is where I get freaked....
> 'met resistance....'
> 'refining can always come later'....
>
> See this is just what I am worried about.
> Refining likely WON'T happen later. What the council wants will quite likely be 'met with resistance'....Ok Muff... I can see that I did not do a good job making it clear! I should have specified that the resistence I met was from other Community members. I remember Dinah not liking it - but I think there were others as well.
As for refining - EVERYthing refines, Muff. YOU refine. So refining is a good thing - and much of the time it happens just as a matter of course. :-) I was specifically talking about it being important to get the basic structure of a Council in place - as simply as possible - to see how it works, and then work the kinks out of it as we go along. Anything new will always need kinks worked out.
I hope that helps!
> I mean, see how much clarity we have gotten from Bob so far??? and this has been talked about for quite awhile....
> Its very important to us. How did the chat go? I understand he was late....so it was short...No - he was on time - a few minutes early actually, if I remember correctly. There were some with comuputer questions for him that took some time. There were people coming in the room for a little while, so it takes time to get everyone 'gathered' and present. I think he was the one who finally initiated the conversation about Council.
> WE are making alot of effort here.....Yes, we are - but I genuinely think Bob is as well.
> I hate to sound like SUCH a negative pain here....but Bob is a friggin ROCK I say. Trying to make him chnge is like trying to chip away at a rock with a rubber mallet.
I don't know if that's really fair, Muff. Bob has made changes... changes that were of benefit to the community. In particular I'm thinking of his agreeing to ask for rephrasing and apologies and then allowing time for a response before handing out blocks. That is a significant change.
Bob won't be able to make all the changes every different person would like to see. That's an expectation impossible to fill. I think it's important for us to give it a chance - and to understand that baby steps are still steps. :-) Maybe, Muff, you can think of it in terms of your parts. What if some of your more fragile parts were demanding that the higher functioning part of you let them run the show? You wouldn't be able to meet all of their demands. You have to have a part - hopefully the best functioning part - that is in control and calling the shots. I remember you describing yourself as having to sometimes sit those more unruly parts down and tell them they are going to have to wait for your attention. Did I remember that correctly? So maybe think of this in those kinds of terms. Bob will not be able to meet every expectation that is here in the Community. But that does not mean that he is not genuinely trying to put something together that will be in the best interests of the whole Community. It's not about making everyone 'happy' - as much as it's about making this place as safe as it can be, while still giving it room to be as thriving as it can be.
> I think the council *could* be a good idea, but ONLY if Bob gives it the ability to DO things.He said he will give Council the power to shorten blocks, and the power to release those blocked posters.
> Only if Bob is willing to chnage blocks etc as I mentioned above.
Not 'only if' Muff. He can block someone for a year - and use any formula he wants. And if Council thinks its excessive, and that the blocked poster is working to stick with civility guidelines, then they can cut that block all the way down to the minimum if that's what the majority of them vote to do.
> All I am seeing is alot of reluctance on Bobs part..., alot of rather passive resistance to change....I don't think so, Muff. The only reluctance I'm seeing right now is his reluctance to change the method of seating Council. Other than that, I think he's been exceedingly generous.
> I feel badly always narcking away at Bob, but the fact of the matter is, this is HIS SITE and if he is not on board, nothing will truly change....I think you're afraid - because blocks have been traumatic for you. It is his site, but he has made a decent number of changes - which means he is willing to make changes. I think things will continue to evolve (or 'refine' :-)
> If he won't change some things before the board is implemnented, if he doesn't show some good faith....well, I for one sure wouldn't walk into it....He has made changes (asking for rephrasing & apologies before issuing blocks). I think he has shown good faith by making his proposal for turning power to release blocks over to a Council chosen by the community. And you don't have to walk into anything. It would warm my heart to see you allow yourself to coast along right now and let yourself trust those of us here that you have faith in to push this thing along to a better place than it has been. There are lots of really good folks here Muff. I know you know that. Please don't let yourself fret. Let some of the others of us carry the fretting for a while. We will fret on your behalf. What you can probably count on, is that it can't get worse here - it can only get better. It might not happen tomorrow - but I really do think that it will eventually happen. It is hard to wait.. but we are going to have to wait until we get it put together. Remember - baby steps ARE STILL STEPS!
> As someone said, it still sounds rather like a slightly more complex(more work) deputy position....and as people who have been here any length of time, well, we know how little influence they had on Bob.It's nothing like deputies. Banish that thought!
Solstice
poster:Solstice
thread:965628
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101201/msgs/973486.html