Posted by ElaineM on January 22, 2007, at 23:23:58
In reply to Re: helping, posted by Dr. Bob on January 22, 2007, at 16:08:25
[I'll separate my responses so that one can be put to rest]
>>>>>>>Thanks for giving this some thought. Maybe they wouldn't just *think* you were worth saving, but *tell* you that, too. What if they didn't know who to call, what would you want them to do then?
Thanks for saying you appreciate my contribution. But are you really asking me to clarify this :) cause I can't tell? -- I'll assume so, cause in my other post I thought it went without saying.... Well, I'm sure my friends would know either my parents or my sister's number (or boyfriend's, if I had one). [I'm talking friend, not just aquantance] If not (and for the sake of your argument, were thoroughly isolated from me in terms of common relations, and distance), I'm sure they could manage calling the police -- my baby cousin even knows 911.
People who are concerned and motivated, to protect themself or another's life, try to make the attempts they feel would most likely be successful.
Have you not even searched someone through obtaining an ISP number before?...or something like that, it's been referred to somewhat recently on the admin pages but I'm not familiar.
Maybe I'm confused, but have you not also contacted police before too?
If a patient called you and said they were suicidal would you tell them to go and call a friend instead?But back to your question, Yes I agree, considering that we only had phone or computer contact, I suppose my friend *would* tell me multiple times that I was worth saving - who doesn't say that to someone who makes such an outcry? Plus, I don't think suggesting IRL help has ever been the *only* words offered in a thread before, without other statements of friendship or concern. But in terms of preventing someone in such a desperate mental state, interms of human life, I'd like to rely on *real-life* action rather than far away professions of friendship. Tunnel vision typical of a true suicidal state often traps sufferers in their own process and thoughts. When people are suicidal they usually are only thinking about ending their own pain at that moment -- it's against human instinct to not fight for survival, it takes an awful lot of emotional and psychological distress for someone to reach that place....But Bob, you know this! People who kill themselves can often be aware that taking their own life would be hard for those who care about them to take -- they write goodbye notes for example -- and then follow through anyways. Infact, every pamphlet and website *I've* ever seen on suicide says that if you have a friend who is suicidal to take them seriously and tell someone appropriate (I've even read "They may resent you in the moment for betraying their confidence, but it's to save their life. You can argue about it later. Better safe than sorry").
Plus, what if my friend had already told me many many times that she cared for me? What if I hung up the phone? What if I lied and said, "Thank's for the word hugs, I'm fine now, don't worry, I love you back" and then I went off and did it anyways. How can anything but IRL help be the *best* defense, and so, the automatic suggestion?! I'm not saying talk can't also be involved, but this other part must always be included in such circumstances.There have also been *multiple* other posters who engage in various forms of self-harm who have been told by *multiple* other fellow posters in the thread to call crisis lines, their T, or take themself to the ER if they thought they could follow through. It's not a unique scenario. I bet there's only a handful of threads (if that) where someone posting to communicate to others, mentions thinking of some form of self-injury and they are NOT told one, if not all, of those three suggestions -- suggestions that have often been *repeated* additional times to posters whose urges peak again at a later date.
First of all, trying to convince a psychiatrist this makes me feel like I'm in the twilight zone -- It almost makes me feel like you're taking part in this aspect of the debate tongue-in-cheek. Cause I kinda can't believe that you're trying to talk us out of saying that, as a given, suicidal people and those talking of overdosing should be told to call professionals - and you're trying rather hard too. I can't imagine any other doctor promoting the same thing as you. I really really can't understand. Are you differentiating crying-wolf and true suicidality in your head? though I prefer to take all outcries seriously. Or perhaps you sometimes blur non-suicidal emotional upset, with suicidality? I've been wondering if that could be part of the reason why you and several of us other posters aren't meeting eye to eye on this. Those are the only possible rational explanations I can think of. But, I don't want to repeat myself anymore, or this generally-accepted-by-others-in-the-helping-professions advice, any additional times. I'll just agree to disagree, and accept that you have a somewhat controversial stance on how laymen should react when someone brings up feeling suicidal, or confesses that they are at risk of being a danger to themself.
Done.
Sorry - Can't help being verbose when I feel strongly about something.
[*sleepy*]
thanks, El
poster:ElaineM
thread:724710
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061228/msgs/725455.html