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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on March 24, 2005, at 19:46:50
In reply to Re: could someone xplain what happened to fallen4myt?, posted by rainbowbrite on March 24, 2005, at 19:44:48
Apparantly they are getting there...
Posted by Dinah on March 24, 2005, at 19:47:06
In reply to Re: could someone xplain what happened to fallen4myt?, posted by rainbowbrite on March 24, 2005, at 19:44:48
They are going to happen. Just as soon as Dr. Bob gets a chance.
Posted by rainbowbrite on March 24, 2005, at 19:54:16
In reply to Re: could someone xplain what happened to fallen4myt? » rainbowbrite, posted by Dinah on March 24, 2005, at 19:47:06
Posted by ed_uk on March 24, 2005, at 21:09:03
In reply to Re: could someone xplain what happened to fallen4myt?, posted by rainbowbrite on March 24, 2005, at 19:44:48
How will these 'private rooms' work?
Ed.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 24, 2005, at 21:56:34
In reply to Re: ????????, posted by ed_uk on March 24, 2005, at 21:09:03
You might want to have a look through the archives over on admin...
Or you might not want to...
I guess we don't really know until they come into being.
There was a bit of brain storming etc.
And a lot of opposition.
Some people feel strongly against them.
There was a lot of hurt feelings and upset over them.
I don't know if people want to bring that up again...
And besides which, we won't really know until we see...
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 24, 2005, at 22:46:56
In reply to Re: ???????? » ed_uk, posted by alexandra_k on March 24, 2005, at 21:56:34
some of us may view the " babble party" as a private event..
i will bow out aswell if we are seperated in yet another stipulation..
i deleted most of my post!
weouldnt want to upset the apple cart..
jyl
Posted by alexandra_k on March 25, 2005, at 2:55:44
In reply to Re: ????????, posted by justyourlaugh on March 24, 2005, at 22:46:56
> some of us may view the " babble party" as a private event..
I still don't understand how...
Everybody was invited.
It it true that not everyone is able to go
But that doesn't change that everyone was invited.(((jyl))) I am sorry that this is hard for you.
Posted by sunny10 on March 25, 2005, at 7:14:12
In reply to Re: ???????? » justyourlaugh, posted by alexandra_k on March 25, 2005, at 2:55:44
when you issue invitations, you already know who can attend.
If you send a wedding invitation to your Aunt Frieda in Timbuktu and you live in Cleveland, you already know her reply will be "no"...The only difference here is that only the wealthy could attend from anywhere outside of the surrounding three states...
I DO understand where jyl is coming from. An "open invitation" is truly only open to a select group of people in this case.
I am not having as difficult of a time with this; maybe because I am mostly disappointed in everything these days- it just gets heaped in with the rest of the disappointments, for me...
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 25, 2005, at 9:38:04
In reply to Re: ???????? » alexandra_k, posted by sunny10 on March 25, 2005, at 7:14:12
> when you issue invitations, you already know who can attend.
> If you send a wedding invitation to your Aunt Frieda in Timbuktu and you live in Cleveland, you already know her reply will be "no"...
>
> The only difference here is that only the wealthy could attend from anywhere outside of the surrounding three states...
>
> I DO understand where jyl is coming from. An "open invitation" is truly only open to a select group of people in this case.
>
Thanks for speaking for me again : )I'm not having much difficulty either, I am happy for those who get to go, but I too can certainly understand where JYL is coming from.
An invitation for a 500.00 a plate dinner could be extended to everyone in the poorest neighborhood in town, as well as the richest but it hardly makes things equal.
Posted by ed_uk on March 25, 2005, at 11:00:44
In reply to Re: ???????? » ed_uk, posted by alexandra_k on March 24, 2005, at 21:56:34
Hi!
Thanks for your help :-)
Ed.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 25, 2005, at 15:45:27
In reply to Re: ???????? » alexandra_k, posted by sunny10 on March 25, 2005, at 7:14:12
> when you issue invitations, you already know who can attend.
Do you think Dr Bob had a little list in mind when he issued the invite???
> If you send a wedding invitation to your Aunt Frieda in Timbuktu and you live in Cleveland, you already know her reply will be "no"...
Well... I guess you figure it is unlikely that she will be able to attend... But she might. She just might... Would you be upset if she turned up, or pleased?
> The only difference here is that only the wealthy could attend from anywhere outside of the surrounding three states...Sure. But even within those three states some people won't be able to make it because they have prior committments (work) or because their SO won't let them or whatever..
> I DO understand where jyl is coming from. An "open invitation" is truly only open to a select group of people in this case.What do you want him to do? Pay for everyone to get there? Even Babble isn't open for those without internet connections. Do you think the party should be called off because some people can't go?
> I am not having as difficult of a time with this; maybe because I am mostly disappointed in everything these days- it just gets heaped in with the rest of the disappointments, for me...((((Sunny)))) I am sorry that it is hard for you. I felt the same way about the chat function for a long time. I use my uni account for babble and they have blocked online chat. So I can't do it.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 25, 2005, at 15:48:35
In reply to Re: ????????, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 25, 2005, at 9:38:04
> An invitation for a 500.00 a plate dinner could be extended to everyone in the poorest neighborhood in town, as well as the richest but it hardly makes things equal.
Equal with respect to attendance, no probably not.
Equal with respect to the invites, yes it does.I don't know.
Do you think the $500 dinner thing would be glad if someone poor managed to scrape the funds together and get there? Or do you think in that case the $500 thing is designed so that only a 'certain kind of person' can attend???
IMO that is the difference.
Quite a significant one...
Posted by Susan47 on March 25, 2005, at 17:11:40
In reply to could someone xplain what happened to fallen4myt?, posted by alesta on March 24, 2005, at 18:45:56
Hi Alesta,
Fallen seems to be doing really well. She's quite happy last time I had contact with her, a few weeks ago. Do you have her email addy? Maybe I can help you get in touch.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 25, 2005, at 17:43:52
In reply to Re: ???????? » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on March 25, 2005, at 15:48:35
> > An invitation for a 500.00 a plate dinner could be extended to everyone in the poorest neighborhood in town, as well as the richest but it hardly makes things equal.
>
> Equal with respect to attendance, no probably not.No, but it's not something unexpected is what I'm saying. You could count on the fact that people who were from the poorer neighborhood couldn't go. If I had rich friends and poor ones, and sent out an invitation to an expensive restaurant to celebrate, I would *know* that I was all but excluding the the poorer ones, and not be surprised if they were hurt, or angry.
> Equal with respect to the invites, yes it does.
>
> I don't know.
>
> Do you think the $500 dinner thing would be glad if someone poor managed to scrape the funds together and get there? Or do you think in that case the $500 thing is designed so that only a 'certain kind of person' can attend???In this case I truly don't think Dr Bob planned things so that only a few could go. I don't think it was anything more than a nice idea on his part. However, just as I said before, I can understand why people would be hurt nevertheless. Hurt is hurt--it just *is*
It can't always be rationalized, especially when people are already feeling downtrodden.It doesn't mean it was a plot, but the fact that many of us cannot afford to go, and feel a bit left out certainly can't be a surprise. I'm not taking it personally at all though, (unlike the party analogy I used for myself, which is more personal)
I think the posters who are going would be thrilled if everyone could attend, and I think they deserve to.
> IMO that is the difference.
> Quite a significant one...
>
That's how *you* feel though, I don't think peoples feelings should have to be up for debate.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 25, 2005, at 19:27:01
In reply to Re: ???????? » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 25, 2005, at 17:43:52
I wasn't trying to debate peoples feelings...
Sorry I gave that impression :-(
I was just worried that peoples were getting mad at Bob for him having the party.
And maybe getting mad at the people who were able to make it by extension.
Sorry.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 27, 2005, at 9:33:26
In reply to Re: ???????? » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on March 25, 2005, at 19:27:01
> I wasn't trying to debate peoples feelings...
>
> Sorry I gave that impression :-(
>After the first two posts questioning why we felt the way we did, and giving reasons why we shouldn't it did start to feel like a debate. Sometimes it's nice just to be able to say how you feel. I realize you're concerned about Dr. Bob, but if people get angry.. they get angry, it happens sometimes, and sometimes that's the way people learn things, doctors included.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 14:43:00
In reply to Re: ???????? » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 27, 2005, at 9:33:26
> > I wasn't trying to debate peoples feelings...
> > Sorry I gave that impression :-(> After the first two posts questioning why we felt the way we did, and giving reasons why we shouldn't
I wasn't trying to give reasons why you shouldn't. I was trying to give reasons why you didn't have to feel that way. There is a difference...
>Sometimes it's nice just to be able to say how you feel.
Sure.
>I realize you're concerned about Dr. Bob, but if people get angry.. they get angry, it happens sometimes, and sometimes that's the way people learn things, doctors included.
I was more worried about people feeling bad for being able to go than about Dr Bob. He can handle himself.
I am sorry.
I didn't mean to be invalidating.
Sometimes I don't put the thought into posts that I probably should.By the way
>sometimes that's the way people learn things, doctors included
So you think he shouldn't do things / make decisions that may result in people feeling hurt?
Maybe we should just leave this.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 14:55:02
In reply to Re: ???????? » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 14:43:00
Yeah. Lets just leave this. I had a look back through the thread and I don't really see where I said anything objectionable.
Saying you feel hurt or whatever is one thing.
Saying Dr Bob will 'learn' from this whole situation implies that he did something wrong or that he didn't forsee the consequences.
Sometimes in life we have to make decisions that do result in people feeling badly. And there isn't an alternative way around that.
If you purposely chose to have a party at an expensive resturant when there were cheaper alternatives available then I think your poorer friends would understandably be pissed off with you for having made such a poor decision.
No matter where the babble meet is held - the problem remains.
It is a choice between having it or not having it.
If the idea was never mentioned I suppose there would never be a problem.
WOuld you have preferred it to go that way?
The other option is to have it anyway and realise that some people will be upset they can't go. To consider that the benefit to those who can is worth it.
The very idea of an online chat site is exclusionary to those without internet connections. To those who come to lose it or their computer or whatever. What are you supposed to do? Never start up the site because some people will feel excluded?
If you are sad you can't go
If you feel hurt or whatever
Then that is how you feel.But considering what the alternatives are might just mean that you aren't so mad at particular people. That you don't think they have made a bad decision or need to learn a lesson or whatever.
It it up to you how you choose to see it.
You can still feel hurt.And now I am just talking round and round.
This is starting to sound just like the thread on VSG's to me...That may well be why it is best to leave it.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 27, 2005, at 15:03:15
In reply to Re: ???????? » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 14:43:00
>>
> I wasn't trying to give reasons why you shouldn't. I was trying to give reasons why you didn't have to feel that way. There is a difference...I think after several attempts at explaining and still being questioned, it feels more to me like an attempt to change my feelings rather than simply an alternate viewpoint being offered for me to ponder.
>
>> >I realize you're concerned about Dr. Bob, but if people get angry.. they get angry, it happens sometimes, and sometimes that's the way people learn things, doctors included.
> I am sorry.
> I didn't mean to be invalidating.
> Sometimes I don't put the thought into posts that I probably should.I don't think you need to be sorry, I'm just saying how it comes across to me.
> By the way
>
> >sometimes that's the way people learn things, doctors included
>
> So you think he shouldn't do things / make decisions that may result in people feeling hurt?
>No, not at all, that would be impossible anyway.
I'm saying that in this case, for example, the angry reactions might make him see something he didn't before, and give him an increased understanding of how people are likely to feel in another situation.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 16:40:23
In reply to Re: ???????? » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 27, 2005, at 15:03:15
> I think after several attempts at explaining and still being questioned, it feels more to me like an attempt to change my feelings rather than simply an alternate viewpoint being offered for me to ponder.
Yeah. I just had breakfast (and my morning coffee). You know you are addicted to Babble when you check Babble before having your first coffee! (I did get a cigarette or two in, though). I was thinking about this during breakfast. Was just on my way back here to apologise. I have a lot to learn about delivery... I am sorry Gabbi.
I wasn't trying to change anybodies feelings. It has more to do with the intensity of them.
> I don't think you need to be sorry, I'm just saying how it comes across to me.I know I don't need to be :-) But you are feeling frustrated and unheard etc and I am sorry for that.
> No, not at all, that would be impossible anyway.Yeah.
> I'm saying that in this case, for example, the angry reactions might make him see something he didn't before, and give him an increased understanding of how people are likely to feel in another situation.
This situation strikes me as being very very similar to the vsg situation. And what I am doing is saying the same thing in both cases. I tried to find it from the archives - but no luck.
But that being said nobody seemed to get me then and I haven't figured out a better way to say it. So there it is.
IMO it is the same thing once more.
I never was trying to change anyones mind / feelings. Just to point out that there are different factors that you can choose to reflect on. Which ones you choose to focus on have a lot to do with the intensity of upset.
But, like I said, I don't think I can say it any better and I think peoples got offended with me last time, so there it is.
IMO Dr Bob knows people will get very very upset every now and then. I don't see a 'lesson' for him in all this - except that he could have avoided that by NOT starting Babble up, by NOT suggesting a meet up, by NOT suggesting vsg's.
I don't see him changing.
That is what the world is like. Sometimes we can't do things that we would like to do.
At least at Babble (I believe anyways) there isn't any malicious or exclusionary intent. That isn't always the case in the real world.It is easy for me to say (in this case) because I don't think I'd go - even if I could. I would lose a lot of the things that I like about Babble. That nobody responds to be on the basis of what I look like etc etc.
But maybe I just feel that way about it because I couldn't go anyway.
I don't know.
It wouldn't be so easy for me if I did really want to go.
I am sorry Gabbi.
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 27, 2005, at 17:53:27
In reply to Re: ???????? » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 16:40:23
>
> I know I don't need to be :-) But you are feeling frustrated and unheard etc and I am sorry for that.
>Not this time, really. If I was feeling hurt or unheard I probably wouldn't respond. The party isn't personal for me, I'm not that sad about not going, but even if I was I can feel a let down without feeling someone is responsible.
>
> > I'm saying that in this case, for example, the angry reactions might make him see something he didn't before, and give him an increased understanding of how people are likely to feel in another situation.
>
> This situation strikes me as being very very similar to the vsg situation. And what I am doing is saying the same thing in both cases. I tried to find it from the archives - but no luck.
>I think they got it, or I know I did, but
it's not that it's difficult to understand, it's simply that some people don't always agree with the concept... period. I think most of us here at babble especially, are very familiar with the "choosing how you feel" idea, it's one of my pet peeves as a theory but not for lack of understanding.
> IMO it is the same thing once more.
>
> I never was trying to change anyones mind / feelings. Just to point out that there are different factors that you can choose to reflect on. Which ones you choose to focus on have a lot to do with the intensity of upset.
>Okay, I think you've made a big assumption about how upset people are. Sunny said she wasn't that dissappointed, I said I wasn't that dissappointed. Actually the only thing that bothered me was the reminder of the financial situation, not the fact that I can't go. So I don't know where that came from. And I think as far as how I feel being what I focus on.. that's just such a given Maybe that's why people got offended?
I'll put it this way. Suppose I really want children, and good friends of mine are celebrating having a baby, I'd be happy for them, and also feel a bit sad. Ít doesn't mean I don't think they should be allowed to have children. If I was sad and someone said " you can choose to focus on something else" I'd feel like saying "f*ck off" Who isn't doing that consciously already? It's probably why most of us aren't suicidal all the time. Hurt doesn't have to be justified, and I don't believe we can *choose* how we feel all the time, I never will. If you had said that what helps you when you are upset is focussing on something else, I would take that in an entirely different way.
> But, like I said, I don't think I can say it any better and I think peoples got offended with me last time, so there it is.
>
> I don't see him changing.I didn't say change once, and I didn't mean to say it.
I said learn, and how I meant that was maybe sometime in his life he'll have another group of various means that he would like to invite somewhere, now he'll have another factor to take into consideration. Does it mean he has to? no!
Sometimes though, if a person is used to living a certain way they can forget that it's not that way for everyone. What he does with it is entirely up to him.
> That is what the world is like. Sometimes we can't do things that we would like to do.Yeah, I already said that verbatim in a prior post on the subject which is why I'm wondering why you think I'm very upset, or upset at people.
> At least at Babble (I believe anyways) there isn't any malicious or exclusionary intent.That isn't always the case in the real world.
>
So true..
Posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 18:36:03
In reply to Re: ???????? » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 27, 2005, at 17:53:27
>I don't know where that came from.
Exclusionary
Inconsiderate
ThoughtlessI thought these words were starting to occur to people.
> it's simply that some people don't always agree with the concept... period.
How do you feel if you reflect on the above way of seeing it?
>as far as how I feel being what I focus on.. that's just such a given. Maybe that's why people got offended???
But then at other times people don't seem to like the idea (as you said) - so it isn't a given after all.> I'll put it this way. Suppose I really want children, and good friends of mine are celebrating having a baby, I'd be happy for them, and also feel a bit sad.
Of course.
>Ít doesn't mean I don't think they should be allowed to have children.
Absolutely.
>If I was sad and someone said " you can choose to focus on something else" I'd feel like saying "f*ck off"Absolutely :-)
>Who isn't doing that consciously already?
Well, someone might get into a rage about it. That it is 'just not fair'. That they shouldn't have done that. That it was inconsiderate of them etc. If the latter happened then my guess would be that they weren't doing that consciously already and then there could be some use in them thinking about the way they are viewing it and about how that is fueling their distress.
>Hurt doesn't have to be justified,
No, it doesn't. It just is.
>and I don't believe we can *choose* how we feel all the time, I never will.
Neither do I. I never said that. I just think that if we are very very upset then we can view things differently which results in less hurt. Not that the hurt goes away completely (though it might in some cases). Just that it lessens so that it is manageable.
> I said learn, and how I meant that was maybe sometime in his life he'll have another group of various means that he would like to invite somewhere, now he'll have another factor to take into consideration.
You didn't think that one had occured to him already??
> Sometimes though, if a person is used to living a certain way they can forget that it's not that way for everyone.
Yeah.
>which is why I'm wondering why you think I'm very upset, or upset at people.
I actually started saying this stuff in response to jyl. Other people just kind of joined in..
I have had a bad time with CBT too.
I think that people are confusing what I say with all the CBTish stuff they have been told before.I get that.
I get that I have to be very very careful.
Backpeddal from that.
Constantly.
It is hard work.Will I every learn to leave stuff alone???
Posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 18:47:50
In reply to Re: ???????? » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 18:36:03
Posted by Gabbi-x-2 on March 28, 2005, at 13:13:29
In reply to Re: waving the little white flag... (nm) » alexandra_k, posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 18:47:50
Posted by alesta on April 5, 2005, at 17:13:08
In reply to Re: ???????? » Gabbi-x-2, posted by alexandra_k on March 27, 2005, at 18:36:03
hmmm..well ain't i the last to know everything..i wonder what those would entail..guess i'll have to look up the thread when i have time..thanks for letting me know..:):)
amy :)
This is the end of the thread.
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