![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by judy1 on July 7, 2001, at 8:55:11
Okay now that I've got your attention.... What's up with that? Transferance? Me getting slightly hypomanic? hormones? Any ideas? I am TOTALLY preoccupied with this- and this man has STEEL boundaries (probably because what happened with my ex-shrink) So if anyone wants to share if they have had the same thoughts and what you did about it- I'm here :-) Thank you!
Posted by dreamer on July 7, 2001, at 9:22:08
In reply to Sexual fantasies and shrinks, posted by judy1 on July 7, 2001, at 8:55:11
> Okay now that I've got your attention.... What's up with that? Transferance? Me getting slightly hypomanic? hormones? Any ideas? I am TOTALLY preoccupied with this- and this man has STEEL boundaries (probably because what happened with my ex-shrink) So if anyone wants to share if they have had the same thoughts and what you did about it- I'm here :-) Thank you!
Be careful hey I just told someone I loved them I'm outa control on this quest for passion but my brains in my naughty areas when hypo.
Saying that now I spilled the beans and he said it's rediculous and I'm not his type and old enough to be my father and well it's stopped me focusing on him [exuse spelling]
Now I feel silly bit sad but suppose was under some delusion that he felt same way as me.
I'm screwed up with loving relationships two weeks ago I thought I was definately gay next week I'll think I'm an alien. I do try to laugh about it but that can be hard alot of the time
You may wish to tell him /her how you feel and ask If they think it's all in your head.
I explained my feelings whilst laughing and being crude,bad news.
good luck.
Posted by annalaura on July 7, 2001, at 10:28:32
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks, posted by dreamer on July 7, 2001, at 9:22:08
> > Okay now that I've got your attention.... What's up with that? Transferance? Me getting slightly hypomanic? hormones? Any ideas? I am TOTALLY preoccupied with this- and this man has STEEL boundaries (probably because what happened with my ex-shrink) So if anyone wants to share if they have had the same thoughts and what you did about it- I'm here :-) Thank you!
>
> Be careful hey I just told someone I loved them I'm outa control on this quest for passion but my brains in my naughty areas when hypo.
> Saying that now I spilled the beans and he said it's rediculous and I'm not his type and old enough to be my father and well it's stopped me focusing on him [exuse spelling]
> Now I feel silly bit sad but suppose was under some delusion that he felt same way as me.
> I'm screwed up with loving relationships two weeks ago I thought I was definately gay next week I'll think I'm an alien. I do try to laugh about it but that can be hard alot of the time
> You may wish to tell him /her how you feel and ask If they think it's all in your head.
> I explained my feelings whilst laughing and being crude,bad news.
> good luck.Hi all
i've been yours shoes some years ago.
I don't think i was delusional at all: the guy liked me; he never took adantage of it 'cause he was a very serious/straight guy (appreciated that a lot: i thought it was a sign he cared, i think that was the right attitude).
I think we both knew about that but we never talked about it.
I remember one Summer afternoon: i was his last patient. He took the keys, locked his office and we walked out of the building together. He asked me if i wanted to get on his bike for a ride. I was puzzled: i wasn't expecting such an explicit thing. In the midst of the confusion/astonishment there were mainly three questions running in my mind :first, he was engaged and i didn't want to hurt his fianceé. (My father left my mother for another woman and i swore i would not do that for any reason whatsoever)
second, back then i felt quite fine, but what if i'd have crushed down again, needing his help, and he wouldn't help me any longer because he had the guilty feeling of having trespassed the professional rules so that he'd have redirected me to another pdoc?
Third subject: i thought that i felt excited because of the summer, hormones going on and stuff like that, so i told myself: the world is full of men, why should i hunt for this particular one who, besides of all, is engaged?
So, when he asked me if i wanted to take a ride with him on his bike my answer was no.
Posted by judy1 on July 7, 2001, at 13:45:07
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks, posted by dreamer on July 7, 2001, at 9:22:08
Well I'm pretty open with him about my feelings- he just says I'm manic when I do that. Maybe he's right. Take care, Judy
Posted by judy1 on July 7, 2001, at 13:47:27
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks, posted by annalaura on July 7, 2001, at 10:28:32
You sound really together, thanks for the input- Judy
Posted by NikkiT2 on July 7, 2001, at 14:53:42
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks » annalaura, posted by judy1 on July 7, 2001, at 13:47:27
*grinning* So you reccomend I tell my pdoc what a cute ass he has on my next appoinment then!! :)
> You sound really together, thanks for the input- Judy
Posted by dreamer on July 7, 2001, at 17:15:49
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks » judy1, posted by NikkiT2 on July 7, 2001, at 14:53:42
> *grinning* So you reccomend I tell my pdoc what a cute ass he has on my next appoinment then!! :)
>
>
> > You sound really together, thanks for the input- JudySorry about the subject title Nikki . How was the holiday?
Did you go near the coast anywhere I could really do with a secluded beach and the waves massaging my troubled mind .
Posted by NikkiT2 on July 7, 2001, at 17:20:05
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and hi nikki, posted by dreamer on July 7, 2001, at 17:15:49
We stayed virtually on the beach!!! :argest on island, but still small!!! And went to a few secluded ays for sorkelling.. was heavenly, really was!!! I spent alot fof time alone and chilling (and falling over / off moped alot!!!) Laying in the waves was wonderful.. did it as the sun rose one mornng and everything was perfect!!!
Nikki x
> > *grinning* So you reccomend I tell my pdoc what a cute ass he has on my next appoinment then!! :)
> >
> >
> > > You sound really together, thanks for the input- Judy
>
> Sorry about the subject title Nikki . How was the holiday?
> Did you go near the coast anywhere I could really do with a secluded beach and the waves massaging my troubled mind .
Posted by dreamer on July 7, 2001, at 17:41:10
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and hi nikki » dreamer, posted by NikkiT2 on July 7, 2001, at 17:20:05
> We stayed virtually on the beach!!! :argest on island, but still small!!! And went to a few secluded ays for sorkelling.. was heavenly, really was!!! I spent alot fof time alone and chilling (and falling over / off moped alot!!!) Laying in the waves was wonderful.. did it as the sun rose one mornng and everything was perfect!!!
>
> Nikki x
>
> > > *grinning* So you reccomend I tell my pdoc what a cute ass he has on my next appoinment then!! :)
> > >
> > >
> > > > You sound really together, thanks for the input- Judy
> >
> > Sorry about the subject title Nikki . How was the holiday?
> > Did you go near the coast anywhere I could really do with a secluded beach and the waves massaging my troubled mind .
Posted by JennyR on July 7, 2001, at 21:34:24
In reply to Sexual fantasies and shrinks, posted by judy1 on July 7, 2001, at 8:55:11
I think it's totally normal to have all kinds of loving feelings toward therapists. They represent all sorts of things to us, and they treat us with a lot of kindness and empathy.
I am often pre-occupied with my feelings for my therapist, although they are not sexual feelings - that feels taboo. But I am definitely preoccupied with him. In a way that feels like love.
But I think that's okay as long as the boundaries are firm, and the work gets done without trying to impress him so he'll like me more.
Posted by sar on July 8, 2001, at 23:37:10
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks, posted by JennyR on July 7, 2001, at 21:34:24
Hey Judy,
You've been with this doc for awhile, right? Are you comfortable with this, or do you think it would help to see a female doc? (or are you bi?)
I always choose female psychologists because I feel like they'd not think about me in a sexual me (nor me towards them)--I want to be so brutally honest in the office that I don't want any room for flirtation. Also, 'cos I have Issues with Men, I like speaking with a Woman. I like for my psychologist to be kind of life a professional girlfriend/doctor all wrapped up into one.
The way I feel about my femal psychologist though, is--well, I'm envious of her education, clothes, community respect, expertise, etc--not a crush, but admiration.
This is a sticky topic, I know, but didn't you endure some sexual abuse? Do you feel comfortable speaking with a man about this?
Posted by judy1 on July 9, 2001, at 3:10:14
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks, posted by sar on July 8, 2001, at 23:37:10
Hi Sar!
My shrink just told me I'm manic, he said whenever I start talking about having sex with him, I'm manic. I guess it's pretty clear cut although I don't feel manic just sexual, so who knows?
Anyway, I do see him for therapy and meds (1and 1/2 years now- good guess) and I feel like I can say anything to him (or as you put it be brutally honest) I do see a female therp in addition (who happens to be a lesbian, but no I'm not bi) and she's the one who's an expert in child abuse and SIV (self inflicted violence) She's really good and I felt comfortable with her right away so none of that sexual tension I have with my shrink (but there's lots of issues there like my ex-shrink who crossed boundaries) so actually he can really help me work through those issues by keeping his strong boundaries. So far nobody's ego has been affected (quite amazing with a shrink involved :-) and I really feel like they both want to help me and each brings a different perspective. I hope all of this made sense and I hope you're doing well - Judy
Posted by Anna Laura on July 9, 2001, at 3:14:28
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks, posted by sar on July 8, 2001, at 23:37:10
> Hey Judy,
>
> You've been with this doc for awhile, right? Are you comfortable with this, or do you think it would help to see a female doc? (or are you bi?)
>
> I always choose female psychologists because I feel like they'd not think about me in a sexual me (nor me towards them)--I want to be so brutally honest in the office that I don't want any room for flirtation. Also, 'cos I have Issues with Men, I like speaking with a Woman. I like for my psychologist to be kind of life a professional girlfriend/doctor all wrapped up into one.
>
> The way I feel about my femal psychologist though, is--well, I'm envious of her education, clothes, community respect, expertise, etc--not a crush, but admiration.
>
> This is a sticky topic, I know, but didn't you endure some sexual abuse? Do you feel comfortable speaking with a man about this?
This is going to be a sticky topic too. I hope you guys are not going to judge me.
Yes, i am narcisistic, i like talking about myself (who doesn't ?). But writing this mail down has been very difficult for me, believe me, cause i feel uncomfortable about this topic, feeling kind of "vulnerable" when i talk about it.
I was abused by my mother as a child, plus i always had sexual identity problems (i don't know if these things are connected somehow). My mother told me that when i was two-years old i wanted to be a male and i used to say i used to be a boy before they cut my genitals off.
My moher was very worried since her mother was homosexual and thought it was a genetic kind of thing (she actually thought the sexual identity "problem" skipped a generation and i was going to be a lesbian like her mother). She tried to buy me dolls and female dressing which i destroied/ripped them off everytime. "My name is Anno, not Anna, i'm a boy" - i shouted.
As i grew up i was hanging out with guys throughout all my teen-age years; i tried to get in touch with women, but they always were a kind of mistery to me, didn't understand them at all. I tried and tried, but i always ran away at the end: they scared me.I was sexually molested as a child, but still, men were somehow "better" then women to me.
As i hit my twenties things began to change: i began to feel comfortable about being a woman, but still had "rejections crisis" during which i cried and used to say i was trapped inside a female body. As i turned twenty-one i met two wonderful women i was comfortable with. One of the two had become my best friend.. Still, i felt kind of uneasy with women, especially when they used to say phrases like: "men are different from us" and stuff like that. I never felt that way. I still don't know exactly what being female is about.
That's why i prefer male pdocs: i'm more comfortable with them. If i feel attracted by them as it happened with my former pdoc years ago, therapy comes first and i never, never flirt with them, believe me, 'cause the urge of feeling better is so strong that's actually surpassing the flirtation b******t. Moreover, the thing i talked about in my previous post actually took place at the end of the therapy : throughout the years of therapy he was like a good mother sort of.
Posted by judy1 on July 9, 2001, at 9:41:51
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks Sar, posted by Anna Laura on July 9, 2001, at 3:14:28
Hi,
I really like how honest you are with your posts, I find them extrememly helpful I'm curious if a history of abuse has any bearing in sexual identity problems- or has it been proven to have no effect? I agree that the really good male pdocs can be very helpful with these type of issues although at times confusing since my abuse was at the hands of a manic depressive father. You sound very brave and obviously have done a lot of work (something that I'm having a great deal of difficulty with- I dissociate and SI when things get 'sticky') Thank you for sharing and take care- Judy
Posted by susan C on July 9, 2001, at 19:53:07
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks Sar » Anna Laura, posted by judy1 on July 9, 2001, at 9:41:51
In my manic wanderings of the web to find out about bipolar and genetics. I found a comment which does show familial connection (for me, my father and my brother, possibly my paternal great grandfather. That confirmed my pdocs dx. I also read somewhere, about twin studies, that a genetic study showed male twins had a high rate of sharing homosexuality, but for girl twins it wasn't.
> Hi,
> I really like how honest you are with your posts, I find them extrememly helpful I'm curious if a history of abuse has any bearing in sexual identity problems- or has it been proven to have no effect? I agree that the really good male pdocs can be very helpful with these type of issues although at times confusing since my abuse was at the hands of a manic depressive father. You sound very brave and obviously have done a lot of work (something that I'm having a great deal of difficulty with- I dissociate and SI when things get 'sticky') Thank you for sharing and take care- Judy
Posted by sar on July 10, 2001, at 0:49:45
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks Sar, posted by Anna Laura on July 9, 2001, at 3:14:28
Anna Laura,
I appreciate your honesty, too. Do you really feel like a man? Are you attracted to women at all? Were you sexually abused by a man or woman?
Women have always been a a mystery to me too. Most of my friends have always been guys, not only because I feel more comfortable around them, but because they seem to accept me more than women do. I always feel like there's some sort of feminine secret that no one told me. I don't know how to act around women. I feel like if I had a male psych I'd either turn all flirty on him (if I felt attracted to him) or (if defintely *not* attracted to him I'd probably feel resentful and mistrusting...this may have to do with my physically/verbally abusive father, and my having worked as a topless dancer and cocktail waitress in stripjoints and compiling a lot of--mixed feeling about men.
I wonder if most girls wonder if there's a Girls' Club that they've not been let into?
I'm glad you've found something that works for you, Anna Laura. My male docs have flirted w/ me (one asked me, when i was 18, on a date! and he was married) which makes me resent them.
It's all a matter of personal choice, if you feel more comfortable with X, be it man or woman, go with X.
Are you Italian? Your English is really god, and you sound like a tough chick. (amazing girl, if your slang isn't up to par.)
love,
sar
Posted by Anna Laura on July 10, 2001, at 7:49:07
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks annalaura, posted by sar on July 10, 2001, at 0:49:45
> Anna Laura,
>
> I appreciate your honesty, too. Do you really feel like a man? Are you attracted to women at all? Were you sexually abused by a man or woman?
>
> Women have always been a a mystery to me too. Most of my friends have always been guys, not only because I feel more comfortable around them, but because they seem to accept me more than women do. I always feel like there's some sort of feminine secret that no one told me. I don't know how to act around women. I feel like if I had a male psych I'd either turn all flirty on him (if I felt attracted to him) or (if defintely *not* attracted to him I'd probably feel resentful and mistrusting...this may have to do with my physically/verbally abusive father, and my having worked as a topless dancer and cocktail waitress in stripjoints and compiling a lot of--mixed feeling about men.
>
> I wonder if most girls wonder if there's a Girls' Club that they've not been let into?
>
> I'm glad you've found something that works for you, Anna Laura. My male docs have flirted w/ me (one asked me, when i was 18, on a date! and he was married) which makes me resent them.
>
> It's all a matter of personal choice, if you feel more comfortable with X, be it man or woman, go with X.
>
> Are you Italian? Your English is really god, and you sound like a tough chick. (amazing girl, if your slang isn't up to par.)
>
> love,
> sar
When i feel better, i feel more "like a man". I mean, it's more like a "mental" rather then a physical kind of thing. I usually find more like-minded men then women, plus i feel kind of trapped inside this female body. I usually like it, but when i'm under stress or some kind of pressure this old uncomfortable feeling shows up again. It's difficult to explain, i guess my male parts of personality are preponderant. I'm not attracted to women though. I do notice the beautiful ones as i walk on the streets, but it's more an aesthetic kind of thing: it's like watching an art work I think it's because i appreciate beauty, so i'm looking at them as i were watching a picture, a flower, or a beautiful sunset etc....When i was 21 i wanted to figure out if i was a lesbian or not : i was telling myself that it might have been an unconscious thing and that i wasn't aware of it, rejecting it because of social stigma, so i tried to have sex with a woman: i didn't feel anything whatsoever and my female friend got hurt because of that. I told her it was nothing personal, that she was beautiful, but i couldn't feel anything: couldn't help myself : i liked men.
Unfortunatly, my male part is vanished: i miss it so terribly!
I think the root cause of it lies on the long lasting depression that robbed me of the aspects/qualities of my old self year after year. I had to adjust to get along with my female part only as a consequence; it's awful: when i miss my" male part", which it used to cover something like 80% of my personality, I feel kind of "crippled" and my female part is not adequate enough to face everyday tasks and problems, i feel kind of "uncomfortable", not brave enough, i feel like this is not me, plus i can't do sex too, 'cause i feel so vulnerable that the all sex thing gets kind of "disgusting" (i feel as i'm being raped/assaulted somehow). When i regain my male part i manage do to almost anything, i'm never scared :i.e. i'm not scared about walking alone in the strees by night, feel invincible (and this is absolutely not a manic/unreal thing because i've been assaulted and fought back in a way i made the guy got so scared he ran away from me). Sexual life is good, and i feel very strong and energic, self confident, want to socialize, i become entrerprising, willing to explore all sides of life.Unfortunately, it has been a long time since i felt that way: rmy male part is missing right now, mourning over it 'cause it made me feel so good!
My grandmoher used to be" manly" but in a different way: first, she liked women, second she had such violent rage bouts she looked like a mafia guy;(did you see Joe Pesci in "Good Fellaws"?) she was a teacher: when she shouted she was so powerfult everybody ran away/hid under the desks. My mother is that way also, she can definetely be scary: she was a District Attoney years ago (she is a judge in the Italian Court of Appeals right now) : when she was inquiring the prison inmates they were so scared that they didn't want to see her again. They used to shout: "i don't want to talk with that woman anymore!!!" before she came in. She got a nickname because of that : "the jails' terror". I was abused by her, that's why i was so scared of women.I'm glad you've found something that works for you, Anna Laura. My male docs have flirted w/ me (one asked me, when i was 18, on a date! and he was married) which makes me resent them.
Unfortunately the pdoc i used to get along with he moved to another city, so that i have to find another one. Moreover, i did meet him months ago, and i was dismayed to learn he changed; he got very cynical, lost his humanity. I think it depends on the fact he is a state asylum pdoc: i guess you grow indifferent by facing pure madness and despair every single day, otherwise you get a burn out. He was very much involved with his patients so i guess growing cynical it has been a way to protect himself. I miss the person he used to be.
Are you Italian? Your English is really god, and you sound like a tough chick. (amazing girl, if your slang isn't up to par.)
Yes i am italian living in Italy, thanks for your compliment! I really apreciated it.
Posted by Anna Laura on July 10, 2001, at 7:58:57
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks Sar » Anna Laura, posted by judy1 on July 9, 2001, at 9:41:51
> Hi,
> I really like how honest you are with your posts, I find them extrememly helpful I'm curious if a history of abuse has any bearing in sexual identity problems- or has it been proven to have no effect? I agree that the really good male pdocs can be very helpful with these type of issues although at times confusing since my abuse was at the hands of a manic depressive father. You sound very brave and obviously have done a lot of work (something that I'm having a great deal of difficulty with- I dissociate and SI when things get 'sticky') Thank you for sharing and take care- Judy
Hi Judy,You told me about being curious if a history of abuse had any bearing in sexual identity problems: a psychologist whose name is Charles Whitfield talks about this issue on his book "The child within".Sure the guy
is no Freud nor Lacan: still, he has simple but deep insights I've bought the book years ago and i found it helpful. It's a very very simple book, but i believe it to be an accurate and truthful portrait of people who have been abused.
Posted by NikkiT2 on July 10, 2001, at 8:08:13
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks Sar, posted by Anna Laura on July 9, 2001, at 3:14:28
Wow, that was really open and honest of you.. and made wonderful reading. I was always a "tom boy", always ahd short hair, and all my close friends, until a year ago, were male. I felt women too manipulative, and I didn't understanmd them. All my relationships have been based on a great friendship and liking the same things, rather than a passionate love.
But, over the past 2 years, actually coinciding with my enegagement and marriage I have stated to become alot more "girlie". Recently I have been building close friendships with a couple of females, and have a real girlie side coming out - I wear dresses at times, make up, and shock* have discovered a love of bright pink!! *LOL*
Maybe this is all part of me growing up? (I'm 26)... I'd never thought of it like that!
Nikki x
Posted by caroline h. on July 12, 2001, at 23:42:39
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks » sar, posted by judy1 on July 9, 2001, at 3:10:14
> Hi Sar!
> My shrink just told me I'm manic, he said whenever I start talking about having sex with him, I'm manic. I guess it's pretty clear cut although I don't feel manic just sexual, so who knows?
> Anyway, I do see him for therapy and meds (1and 1/2 years now- good guess) and I feel like I can say anything to him (or as you put it be brutally honest) I do see a female therp in addition (who happens to be a lesbian, but no I'm not bi) and she's the one who's an expert in child abuse and SIV (self inflicted violence) She's really good and I felt comfortable with her right away so none of that sexual tension I have with my shrink (but there's lots of issues there like my ex-shrink who crossed boundaries) so actually he can really help me work through those issues by keeping his strong boundaries. So far nobody's ego has been affected (quite amazing with a shrink involved :-) and I really feel like they both want to help me and each brings a different perspective. I hope all of this made sense and I hope you're doing well - Judyjudy: it sounds like your p-doc is too uncomfortable with this to deal with it therapeutically, and hence, for you it just festers. but it also sounds to me like you want something sexual to happen between you--if not his "nerves of steel" would be irrelevant. but ascribing your sexual feelings- i think, very natural, in therapy- to your mania is just a cop-out. you could be manic (i don't know about this,) but even if you are, there's something to be learned here, good lessons for you in dealing with strong feelings towards inappropriate people.if this strikes a nerve, maybe you should bring it up with him in this vein. if it doesn't, there's gotta be some other therapeutic value, but i'm guessing that he's getting the message you want to sleep with him, so he's brushing you off.
i'm talking from my own experience here.i have a history of seeking relationships with unavailable men and crossing boundaries to get them. what my shrink, as he calls himself, got me to see was that his "nerves of steel" were simply his self-respect, and that once i had more self-respect, i too would have "nerves of steel." there's no question that we're both attracted to each other--but he values his license more than sex with me, and i value him more as a therapist than as a lover. so we occasionally flirt; we laugh; tell each other when the other looks particularly nice; have a standing joke about his cologne, and hugs are allowed, at my request, in particularly troublesome situations. we both agreed that if we had met each other at the grand union, more would be going on--but we didn't so there's not.
there's nothing wrong with having sexual fantasies about your shrink, particularly if he's someone you'd be attracted to in another setting, and given anyone's vulnerability in therapy. there's only something wrong with acting on them.
how would you feel, particularly given what happened with your prior p-doc, if you slept with this one, and stuff ended badly??? you need more trauma in your life?? this would be smart for you to do?? and smart for him to risk losing his license and gaining a malpractice lawsuit?? there's no payoff here.if you're at all like me, many of these fantasies are heightened cuz he's forbidden fruit. they're also very safe becuz he's forbidden--nothing emotionally scary can happen with someone forbidden and unavailabe until they become available. my sexual fantasies towards my shrink were obcessions. as i realized in therapy how really devastating acting on those fantasies would be for me, and that my shrink's "nerves of steel" were just his self-respect, i would not allow myself to have the fantasies. now i allow myself the fantasies sometimes, but i know they're a substitute for life, and i just hope i meet a guy i'll respect as much as i do my shrink.
all this took about three of my four years in therapy with the guy. i would imagine, with your history, that you're a real hot potato for your p-doc, which is why he brushes off your comments to mania. i would think that if you can show him how obcessed you are with your fantasies, how much they bother you, and that it would help you to learn to deal with them better, he should take your comments more seriously. working this through with him probably would strengthen your therapeutic relationship.
i know that working through this issue with my shrink, for me, has helped my therapy and growth in other areas. we have a kind of shorthand that lovers have, and i feel safer with him than with anyone else. but for our mutual health, we're not going to bed.
hope this helps. good luck. i know it can be agonizing.
caroline h.
Posted by judy1 on July 13, 2001, at 12:45:39
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks:judy1 (long), posted by caroline h. on July 12, 2001, at 23:42:39
Wow, thank you for all your insight. I can tell that you most definitely have been 'here'. I am happily married, so I find all of this extremely confusing- although I agree his unavailability is definitely a pattern with me. I guess I never questioned his theory that my mania is the cause of these feelings, while I certainly am not as vocal or demonstrative when I'm not manic, the feelings remain. He does hug me at the end of sessions, I told him I felt like a leper when he didn't. You certainly gave me a lot to think about, and when and if I ever get comfortable about talking about it to him, I will. Thank you so much for all the thought you put into your post. Take care, judy
Posted by caroline h. on July 13, 2001, at 20:28:00
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks:judy1 (long), posted by caroline h. on July 12, 2001, at 23:42:39
> > Hi Sar!
> > My shrink just told me I'm manic, he said whenever I start talking about having sex with him, I'm manic. I guess it's pretty clear cut although I don't feel manic just sexual, so who knows?
> > Anyway, I do see him for therapy and meds (1and 1/2 years now- good guess) and I feel like I can say anything to him (or as you put it be brutally honest) I do see a female therp in addition (who happens to be a lesbian, but no I'm not bi) and she's the one who's an expert in child abuse and SIV (self inflicted violence) She's really good and I felt comfortable with her right away so none of that sexual tension I have with my shrink (but there's lots of issues there like my ex-shrink who crossed boundaries) so actually he can really help me work through those issues by keeping his strong boundaries. So far nobody's ego has been affected (quite amazing with a shrink involved :-) and I really feel like they both want to help me and each brings a different perspective. I hope all of this made sense and I hope you're doing well - Judy
>
> judy: it sounds like your p-doc is too uncomfortable with this to deal with it therapeutically, and hence, for you it just festers. but it also sounds to me like you want something sexual to happen between you--if not his "nerves of steel" would be irrelevant. but ascribing your sexual feelings- i think, very natural, in therapy- to your mania is just a cop-out. you could be manic (i don't know about this,) but even if you are, there's something to be learned here, good lessons for you in dealing with strong feelings towards inappropriate people.if this strikes a nerve, maybe you should bring it up with him in this vein. if it doesn't, there's gotta be some other therapeutic value, but i'm guessing that he's getting the message you want to sleep with him, so he's brushing you off.
>
> i'm talking from my own experience here.i have a history of seeking relationships with unavailable men and crossing boundaries to get them. what my shrink, as he calls himself, got me to see was that his "nerves of steel" were simply his self-respect, and that once i had more self-respect, i too would have "nerves of steel." there's no question that we're both attracted to each other--but he values his license more than sex with me, and i value him more as a therapist than as a lover. so we occasionally flirt; we laugh; tell each other when the other looks particularly nice; have a standing joke about his cologne, and hugs are allowed, at my request, in particularly troublesome situations. we both agreed that if we had met each other at the grand union, more would be going on--but we didn't so there's not.
>
> there's nothing wrong with having sexual fantasies about your shrink, particularly if he's someone you'd be attracted to in another setting, and given anyone's vulnerability in therapy. there's only something wrong with acting on them.
> how would you feel, particularly given what happened with your prior p-doc, if you slept with this one, and stuff ended badly??? you need more trauma in your life?? this would be smart for you to do?? and smart for him to risk losing his license and gaining a malpractice lawsuit?? there's no payoff here.
>
> if you're at all like me, many of these fantasies are heightened cuz he's forbidden fruit. they're also very safe becuz he's forbidden--nothing emotionally scary can happen with someone forbidden and unavailabe until they become available. my sexual fantasies towards my shrink were obcessions. as i realized in therapy how really devastating acting on those fantasies would be for me, and that my shrink's "nerves of steel" were just his self-respect, i would not allow myself to have the fantasies. now i allow myself the fantasies sometimes, but i know they're a substitute for life, and i just hope i meet a guy i'll respect as much as i do my shrink.
>
> all this took about three of my four years in therapy with the guy. i would imagine, with your history, that you're a real hot potato for your p-doc, which is why he brushes off your comments to mania. i would think that if you can show him how obcessed you are with your fantasies, how much they bother you, and that it would help you to learn to deal with them better, he should take your comments more seriously. working this through with him probably would strengthen your therapeutic relationship.
>
> i know that working through this issue with my shrink, for me, has helped my therapy and growth in other areas. we have a kind of shorthand that lovers have, and i feel safer with him than with anyone else. but for our mutual health, we're not going to bed.
>
> hope this helps. good luck. i know it can be agonizing.
>
> caroline h.judy-glad i helped but oy-govuvult!!! (or somesuch!) you're married!!!you do love danger, don't you? crashes...self-destruction...etc. i'm not being crical-just looking in the mirror.
caroline
Posted by judy1 on July 14, 2001, at 9:26:37
In reply to Re: Sexual fantasies and shrinks:judy1 (long) » caroline h., posted by caroline h. on July 13, 2001, at 20:28:00
Dear Caroline,
You made me laugh, my last 2 psychiatrists who happen to be Jewish, would fling these Yiddish phrases at me, so believe it or not I went for a consult to a neighbor to find what they meant and learned some really colorful ones along the way. But you are correct about my self destructive behavior, the list goes on and on- bulemic (when younger), self-injury, promiscuity, multiple (over 20) car accidents and then the more obvious suicide attempts. We are working on this, but I think it is a long drawn out process. The positive is I do trust my shrink (it took over a year) but I know how important that is in my recovery. Thank you again- judy
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