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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DAisym on September 15, 2008, at 21:15:13
..."I hate you!" ???
I felt like a teenager -- "Go away! Please don't leave me!"
He told me that I had to remember, I had to know what happened way back when and I had to hold and honor the pain of my younger parts. And he said he had to know with me - that telling was the right thing to do so I'm not alone anymore. And then he looked me straight in the eye and said, "and you have to stay alive. I can't let you give up, as much as you want to kill off all this pain."
So I sobbed and told him I hated him for that. He said fine, he could take my anger. But he looked so sad.
That was last Thursday. We've talked everyday since. He hasn't pulled back at all. But I feel like a heel for saying it.If you've said it, what did your therapist say or do? If you wanted to and didn't say it, did you say something else instead?
Have I ever said that I think Therapy is really hard work?
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 16, 2008, at 8:52:51
In reply to Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger), posted by DAisym on September 15, 2008, at 21:15:13
> ..."I hate you!" ??? My t asked me if I hated him. I said yes, but it was because of something he had done and said.
>
> I felt like a teenager -- "Go away! Please don't leave me!"
>
> He told me that I had to remember, I had to know what happened way back when and I had to hold and honor the pain of my younger parts. And he said he had to know with me - that telling was the right thing to do so I'm not alone anymore. And then he looked me straight in the eye and said, "and you have to stay alive. I can't let you give up, as much as you want to kill off all this pain."This is good.
>
> So I sobbed and told him I hated him for that. He said fine, he could take my anger. But he looked so sad.
> That was last Thursday. We've talked everyday since. He hasn't pulled back at all. But I feel like a heel for saying it.Trust me, he understands your feelings.
>
> If you've said it, what did your therapist say or do? If you wanted to and didn't say it, did you say something else instead?
>
> Have I ever said that I think Therapy is really hard work?yes, it is, but the most important work you will ever do.
My situation is that my t has led me on (knowing I fell in love with him), and I am veery angry about that; eventually, I will probably tell him.
I usually tell him when he has upset me or made me feel angry. He likes "authentic."
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by antigua3 on September 16, 2008, at 11:57:45
In reply to Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger), posted by DAisym on September 15, 2008, at 21:15:13
In much earlier years, I think I told my T "I hate you." Now, it's more "I love you." I may tell her that I hate her when she goes away, and she is fine with that.
I actually told my pdoc just last week, "I hate you," and he said that was fine, he could deal with it. I don't think he took it as seriously as I meant it, but it was OK. He wants me to express the rage I feel but cannot access, so he is always encouraged by my negative feelings. Also, and this is the opposite of you, I don't really care what my pdoc thinks of me. I can say, "I hate you," because I mean it, usually over some feelings he is bringing up or just that I don't like what he says or the advice he is giving.
In any case, while it may feel bad to you, your therapist is right. He can handle it and understands where it's coming from so he isn't offended. So don't worry.
Yes, therapy is hard. The hardest thing in the world to do, sometimes, and it's so wearing on the sould. But it gets better, as you've seen, and there are still lots of highs and lows to go through.
Take care Daisy, and express yourself. Your T is wonderful and can handle it.
antigua
Posted by Wittgensteinz on September 16, 2008, at 15:42:54
In reply to Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger), posted by DAisym on September 15, 2008, at 21:15:13
(((Daisy)))
I've read your posts for a long while, and your T sounds wonderful. I think he can handle everything you have for him - even your anger and hatred.
I've not said those words - I've felt them, although always with some ambiguity (not to the extent that I've stopped liking/loving him on some level). For the first time, last Friday I walked out half way through the session. I felt so furious toward him. The last week I've been pushing him away and begging for him to stay close - what a mess! The more I push him away, the more I'm terrified he'll leave me - the more I hate the fact he has the power to do that. A couple of times I haven't turned up to sessions or have sent him cold e-mails (not rude, just formal and cold, telling him I can't trust him).
Each time I've acted this way, he's let it happen and helped me learn from it. He writes reassuring mails to tell me he won't leave, in response to my not so friendly mails. This weekend he wrote: I won't leave you, that's for sure. You can leave me, by making another attempt on your life, but I will always be there for you.
When things have settled, we process it - we see where the mistakes were made, on my part and on his - normally something has triggered the lack of trust.
I'm not sure if this is that helpful for you. I hope you get through this time and have better times again soon. You have a very special therapist.
Witti
Posted by lucie lu on September 16, 2008, at 17:01:51
In reply to Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger), posted by DAisym on September 15, 2008, at 21:15:13
Daisym,
Maybe he wasn't feeling sad because of what you said in anger and protest - he probably found that perfectly understandable - but more because he knows what he's asking you to do and it makes him sad. He knows the pain that's down the path he's insisting that you take. Ever try to hold your children still while they were getting painful shots? I'll bet your face would look like his. If I cared about a client the way he cares about you, I would feel very sad indeed. He must wish for the millionth time that there was an easier way. So don't feel like a heel. I really don't think that's where he was coming from.
Lucie
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 16, 2008, at 18:14:29
In reply to Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger), posted by DAisym on September 15, 2008, at 21:15:13
What I've said, on more than one occasion, is F*ck you. I'm not proud of it, but at the time I meant it and I was furious with her.
I also, during the lost year (the horrible, suicidal depression that lasted a full year), went to a session, sat there furious for I don't remember how long, then got up, said, "This isn't helping," and walked out. I did send her a letter after that to explain that I didn't mean to do it in such an angry way, but that I think it's impossible for me to do therapy when I'm that depressed. You need some minimal level of hopefulness to really do the work of therapy and I had none.
Mostly, she handled it well. Occasionally, she has been angry with me, but not in any way that scared me. She teared up when I left the session abruptly during the depression and asked me not to leave. I think she was afraid I was going to die. I thought I was, too.
We're still hanging in there with each other after all these years and I miss her like crazy (4.5 weeks into her 7-ish-week leave). I think your T will be hanging in there with you, too.
(((((((Daisy))))))))
Posted by raisinb on September 17, 2008, at 11:39:27
In reply to Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger), posted by DAisym on September 15, 2008, at 21:15:13
Hi Daisy--
That sounds like a painful, but beautiful moment. The intensity of your relationship with him is so admirable.It's funny--my therapist often urges me, "if you hate me, say it!" in a kind of desperate voice when I won't talk. Ironically, what I usually am feeling in those moments is more like, "I love you so much." But that's what I can't express. The positive feelings seem so much more shameful.
It is tough. But worth it.
Posted by Daisym on September 18, 2008, at 0:16:38
In reply to Re: Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger), posted by sassyfrancesca on September 16, 2008, at 8:52:51
I think you have very good reason to be angry with your therapist. I'm glad you are able to tell him about your anger - at least mostly.
Being authentic is harder than it sounds.
Posted by Daisym on September 18, 2008, at 0:22:19
In reply to Re: Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger), posted by antigua3 on September 16, 2008, at 11:57:45
I know he understands but he doesn't deserve this from me. But I'm glad you reminded me that I also tell him that I care about him and that I need him too.
Has your pdoc expressed negative feelings - either for you or around you? I've recently allowed my therapist to join me in my anger, which is new. Before I couldn't tolerate that, I'd begin to defend my mother or my father - I could be mad at them but no one else could be. Today I asked my therapist a question and he didn't respond right away. He then told me that he'd had a brief fantasy about hurting my dad for what he'd done to me - and my response was, "that's my job." He nodded and we moved to talking about my fantasies about revenge. But I didn't freak out, which I would have done in the past. I don't know if this is good or bad.
Posted by Daisym on September 18, 2008, at 0:32:04
In reply to Re: Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger) » DAisym, posted by Wittgensteinz on September 16, 2008, at 15:42:54
I think my therapist is very special, Witti - and it sounds like yours is too. I love that he tells you that he won't leave you, even when you push him away.
I think sometimes that we have to go through some of this to heal - this pushing and pulling and running away. It is the separation stuff that was supposed to happen when we were kids, but never did. So now we need to attach to our therapists and then differentiate from them. It is just such a painful process for us adults. Walking out of a session is a display of your own agency. But as AnnieRose often reminds me, walking out costs $2 a minute, without resolution. It is better to sit there and see what comes out. But it is very hard to do.
I think we begin to trust and then each time we want to tell something new or something deeper, we have to test and then retest this trust. Our foundation is tilted, so we have to keep looking for things to prop it up.
thanks for the support
Posted by antigua3 on September 18, 2008, at 12:26:49
In reply to Re: Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger) » antigua3, posted by Daisym on September 18, 2008, at 0:22:19
With all due respect, you should try not to think about what he "deserves" from you. He's a T; it's his job and you are very special to him.
As to your question: No, my pdoc and I are not close enough for him to express any type of emotion to what I tell him about my father. If anything, this lack of emotion seems to magnify in my mind to his agreeing w/my father on things, which makes me feel shame. All part of the process; something to work on.
I don't think he would judge my father because he focuses more on the full reality of the man my father was. But at this point, he doesn't know the half of it. He knows my goal is to see my father clearly--the totality of him, the good and the bad, but he doesn't know or recognize the reality that my father was not a good man. It's not like he was generally a good man who did bad things. I happen to have this shameful love for him that is out of proportion to the reality of him. Yes, I agree that there were good things, and it's not that they are not important, but they shouldn't overwhelm my feelings.
One more thing. I now know what my feelings for my father should be. I recognize how it feels when I've resolved the displaced/transference feelings I've placed on people who bring forth my father. I think this is really interesting--to know how it should feel, but recognizing that I don't feel that way at all.
Take care Daisy,
antigua
Posted by DAisym on September 19, 2008, at 0:50:39
In reply to Re: Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger) » DAisym, posted by lucie lu on September 16, 2008, at 17:01:51
I keep telling him that if *I* was in charge of things there *would* be an easier way through all of this. I think you are right, he is sad because of all the pain we have to relive. And he relives it with me. I know it isn't his fault but sometimes he just sits in the line of fire. I tell him often that he can't win. If we don't talk about stuff, I'll say he doesn't care. If we do, I tell him he is causing pain. I've said it before, but I'd sure hate to have me as a client.
Posted by DAisym on September 19, 2008, at 0:58:36
In reply to Re: Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger) » DAisym, posted by TherapyGirl on September 16, 2008, at 18:14:29
I probably shouldn't say this but I've always wanted to say F-you during a session when I'm mad. I'm trapped in this lady-like personna sometimes. He'd probably laugh though.
The only time I've walked out of a session was because it was too painful, too. You are right, when hope is lost, nothing else matters.
I know how close you are to your therapist. I'm sorry you are missing her so much. I hope the time passes quickly and she returns soon.
Posted by DAisym on September 19, 2008, at 1:06:04
In reply to Re: Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger) » DAisym, posted by raisinb on September 17, 2008, at 11:39:27
I wish it was easier to be more spontaneous - I also would like to say "I love you" but I don't. I have been able to say things about need and attachment and we both use the term "loving feelings" - so the positive feelings are acknowledged. But yes, sometimes it feels shameful.
Expressing anger is scary. We talked today about how my experience with anger is that someone takes mine, adds it to their own and then gets a lot angrier and lot meaner that I ever was. So I don't express anger because I'm afraid of fueling someone else's fire. It makes sense but I need to work on directing it at the right person.
Posted by lucie lu on September 19, 2008, at 8:11:13
In reply to Re: Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger) » lucie lu, posted by DAisym on September 19, 2008, at 0:50:39
Posted by susan47 on September 19, 2008, at 13:13:18
In reply to Have you ever told your therapist... (trigger), posted by DAisym on September 15, 2008, at 21:15:13
> ..."I hate you!" ???
>
> I felt like a teenager -- "Go away! Please don't leave me!"
>
> He told me that I had to remember, I had to know what happened way back when and I had to hold and honor the pain of my younger parts. And he said he had to know with me - that telling was the right thing to do so I'm not alone anymore. And then he looked me straight in the eye and said, "and you have to stay alive. I can't let you give up, as much as you want to kill off all this pain."
>
> So I sobbed and told him I hated him for that. He said fine, he could take my anger. But he looked so sad.
> That was last Thursday. We've talked everyday since. He hasn't pulled back at all. But I feel like a heel for saying it.
>
> If you've said it, what did your therapist say or do? If you wanted to and didn't say it, did you say something else instead?
>
> Have I ever said that I think Therapy is really hard work?You're lucky to have a therapist who can handle your feelings very well.
I told my Therapist that I hated him but it was over the telephone, and a few weeks later he dumped me for my transference.
I'm still sinking, that was a few years ago. Every day is a struggle. I don't know what happened to me.
This is the end of the thread.
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