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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 11:16:12
I saw my T on Tues. this week. I had so much to talk about with her and my jaw got tired!! Needless to say I didn't feel any real connection from her that I usually get. I missed that. I'm going through so much in my life right now that therapy is important and one of the things that keeps me going day after day.
My T doesn't allow e-mail. She does't mind me leaving her a voice mail and she'll return my calls right away. We had talked about divorce and religion and how it affects the kids. I talked about how it has affected me too. I feel betrayed in some ways because of the council I was given by my leader concerning my spouse and his issues. I was told I should save him. (From his addictions etc.) I don't think so. I'm not trying to make this into a religion based post by any means. What I'm getting at is I had read an interesting article in a newspaper about kids, divorce and religion and the affects it has on how kids see God after the divorce. I thought it was really good and she asked which paper I had read it from. I told her. On Wed. the next day after our session, I decided to e-mail the article to her. Then I called and gave her a heads up of what I'd done and hoped that she wouldn't kill me for sending her an e-mail. She needs to get in the day of technology and realize it's the way people communicate! But she hasn't done that yet. But her e-mail address is on line at a sight she is affiliated with. I told her I got her e-mail address on line. There's not much she can do to me for finding it on line. It's public info in my eyes.
She called and left me a message and told me she wouldn't kill me but that we'd talk about it like we always do. The thing is, I don't want to talk about it with her. I have far too many stressful things going on in my life to worry about this. I do think I broke a boundary and in the way that I did, I forced it on her. If she read the e-mail, it was on "HER" time, not at work and to me that's an invasion of her privacy. I know what I did was a violation, but I think I did it because it was an excuse to feel connected to her because when I left, I wasn't feeling it and I needed it. Now what? I don't think she's mad at me but I don't want to talk about it! Oh man, why do I do these things when I know better.
Do any of you do things when you know it's breaking a boundary with your T?????? I'm stressing over it. Not the first time for me to break a boundary. And she had no say in it. Whew..........
LadyBug
Posted by rskontos on October 5, 2007, at 11:50:03
In reply to Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes!, posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 11:16:12
Ladybug, IMHO she needs to be flexible. You are an adult and yes yes you broke one of her rules but since you sent it to her as an email she could have just deleted it. There are no email rules, as I tell my complaining husband all the time, that states you must read all emails sent to you. She could have seen that it came from you, deleted it and called you to tell you that you broke her rule, she didn't read it and next session bring it to T and that is that. No harm no foul. No getting you drawers in a wad either. But that is just my two cents and I am not a therapist. I might have done what you did and asked for forgiveness instead of permission too.
From another perspective you might ask her why can't she be a little flexible since you don't do this like all the time, just this once you thought it was important to you and what was going on in your life. If she can't bend alittle then.........I might bolt on just my thoughts.........Rkontos
Posted by muffled on October 5, 2007, at 13:13:03
In reply to Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes!, posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 11:16:12
Well ladybug.
MY take on it is that it is part of T's education in her profession to keep up with the latest stuff.
So if you send her pertinent material that might help her to better do her job, then really, she should thank you.
I mean if you PILED stuff at her, then thats diff, but to send her an artical, well, WTF, she can scan it and delete it.
I think educational stuff T's can do on their own time.
I don't necc expect a T to read my journal writings outside of our time (mine often does though, to try and be prepared!), but educational stuff...yup, they can do it on their own time. And she can choose not to read it.
If your T gives you heck for it, then i am dissapointed, cuz you would think she would like to learn as much as possible to be up to date with the latest and therefore be the most informed T that she can be.
I'm not saying this well....
So to nutshell it..
LOL!
I think its your T that needs to suck it up and get over herself!!!! ;-)
Maybe you guys can come to an agreement where you can send her pertinent info. but not expect her to comment on it. Its up to her to read it or not?
I dunno.
You just tell her that Muffys t reads HER stuff, SO THERE!
Luv ya LB,
Take care,
M
Posted by Poet on October 5, 2007, at 14:18:38
In reply to Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes!, posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 11:16:12
Hi LadyBug,
I think you shouldn't beat yourself up over this, hopefully your T will accept your apology for emailing and you can talk about how she would like to receive things that you feel she needs to read. Bring it with you, fax it, anything that gets it to her without emailing it.
I don't violating an email boundary once is so bad, it's not like you spammed her, try to be kind to yourself.
Poet
Posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 16:33:42
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes!, posted by rskontos on October 5, 2007, at 11:50:03
Thanks I need the reminder that we all need to be flexible! And this is the day where people communicate through technology like it or not.
Maybe I won't bring it up next week and she if she does. Ha, I know better.
LadyBug
Posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 16:43:38
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes! » LadyBug, posted by muffled on October 5, 2007, at 13:13:03
Muffled
You're right on! Seriously, she does need to suck it up and get over herself. Sometimes I feel like she is full of herself and so special because she's a T and she can call all the shots and be right about it! Na, not going to happen this time, If she can't handle getting an article in an e-mail, then she should hit delete! Easy deal. I do it to my (X) husband's voice mail all the time. Don't want to hear what he has to say, if I did, I'd still be living with the butthead!!!
You are so funny!
Take care Muffled, you're awesome!
LadyBug
Posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 16:46:32
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes! » LadyBug, posted by Poet on October 5, 2007, at 14:18:38
Poet,
Ok, I've decided to take your advice. I'm done beating myself up over something so trivial. I didn't do anything wrong except maybe force my way into her personal life away from the office. Oh if she only knew.......
And, next time I will print it and bring it to her office.
TGIF!!!! I'm ready for a weekend!
LadyBug
Posted by Dory on October 5, 2007, at 17:20:17
In reply to Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes!, posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 11:16:12
as usual... i'm a lazy slob and i didn't read the other responses. sorry. :/
i don't know about your T and your relationship with her... but i always have the option of "no" with mine. i can just say that i do not want to talk about something and he knows me well enough to know when to back off.
in this case she is going to kinda have to say *something* but you could head her off with a voicemail. Just leave her a message saying she doesn't need to return your call... then say what you just said about it being her time, etc.. and that you understood it would need to be addressed but you can't do it now... tell her you are too overwhelmed. Ask if she would be ok with talking about it another time.
i don't know if that will work.. i don't think one email is such a big deal, but you are right about "her time." Being a T she needs her time outside of work. It has to be hard to do. i think that is why my T takes so many short holidays. i think he is recharging. He is the sort that reads letters outside of session, etc. He puts a lot into it. i would imagine that will be her only real concern.
it sucks knowing you've stepped in it though eh?
Posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 17:51:08
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes! » LadyBug, posted by Dory on October 5, 2007, at 17:20:17
Good idea Dory. Tell her I've got too much on my plate and could we address it later. Because it's true. I don't bend boundaries like I used too. I know better. My T and I have a great relationship. I've been seeing her forever, like over 10 years. I'm slow I guess, but the work is starting to pay off. I finally have done some things that I've needed to do for 10 years. It's never too late.
And the last year or so has been one of our best as far as the relationship goes.
LadyBug
Posted by happyflower on October 5, 2007, at 18:14:54
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes! » Dory, posted by LadyBug on October 5, 2007, at 17:51:08
Well your T can just "bite me" lol Just kidding. (sorry in a fiesty mood today) COME ON! SHE has it online PUBLICALLY, so she can just deal with it. It isn't like you are writing her pesonally and trying to do therapy that way,you just sent her an article. It really is no big deal. Be kind to yourself!
My new T has his email on his business cards that he fills out for appointments. I never asked if I could email him, but I guess it is okay or it would't be on there. He is in his 70's, and he is "with the times" lol Well except one day he had on these "mr. green jeans" pants with green socks that didn't match and sandels with a green striped shirt. Oh my! LOL He looked kinda like an elf.
Posted by red house on October 5, 2007, at 18:43:37
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes!, posted by happyflower on October 5, 2007, at 18:14:54
well, this touches on something i've been working through with my T. the idea that one would knowingly break a boundary, and would break the boundary in pursuit of a connection with your T.
what you did sounds completely reasonable to me; your T put the e-mail address out there. so if it's a boundary, it should be a different boundary that is far more flexible in this era of the internet.
i actively sought info on my T, all from public sources, and, even though i knew i was running the risk of crossing her personal boundaries and did in fact do so -- i discovered something she would not otherwise have told or have shared with me -- she was understanding, largely because it was public information. (although she didn't know that it was out there.)
so, we're working on how instead of indirectly seeking connection -- i.e., sending the email even if you didn't have "permission" or something -- needs to be transformed into direct requests. so i would hope that if you were able to say what you wrote, that you were needing connection, you can find a way to work on getting that need for connection met directly by your T, in response to being direct about your needs.
just a few thoughts based on my recent experience. but, most importantly, try to treat yourself kindly. it is certainly understandable that you were seeking connection and there's nothing wrong with that.
redhouse
Posted by LadyBug on October 6, 2007, at 0:04:56
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes!, posted by happyflower on October 5, 2007, at 18:14:54
Happyflower, you crack me up! I can just see a 70 year old green elf trying to act serious with you! Some of the stuff my T comes up with to wear kills me too. Like these ugly scarves draped over a blouse or something? Geez, they aren't in style nor have they ever been. But I guess when you're a nerd to begin with what can you expect. Aren't all T's nerds? Geeks? Weird? They have to be to be in the field they are.
Thanks for the laugh!
LadyBug
Posted by LadyBug on October 6, 2007, at 0:09:26
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes!, posted by red house on October 5, 2007, at 18:43:37
I guess in order for me to find the e-mail address in the first place I had to google her and go to the group she is affiliated with etc. So what the heck. If she's upset with me, then I'll let her own it. I'm not going to feel bad about it. I'm not going backwards. She made this boundary years ago and needs to realize that I didn't sent her a chit chat e-mail.
It's amazing what we want to know about our T's and what extent we are willing to go to find out. I've always been a little miffed about self disclosure. I think it stinks after you've worked with someone for years.
Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate them!
And good luck with your T too.
LadyBug
Posted by RealMe on October 6, 2007, at 2:03:06
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes! » happyflower, posted by LadyBug on October 6, 2007, at 0:04:56
I don't think all therapists are weirdo, nerds, etc. I don't think I am that. I am pretty down to earth which is what people like about me and do say that I am not like other psychologists who, unfortunately, do act like weirdos, nerds, and geeks. Sorry, I am actually laughing in spite of the fact that I am a clinical psychologist but working forensic now.
RealMe
Posted by LadyBug on October 6, 2007, at 23:40:08
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes! » LadyBug, posted by RealMe on October 6, 2007, at 2:03:06
Ok, I take that back. Not all therapists are nerds or geeks. I just think they choose that career because they want to help people with their issues and that's a good thing. I'm so grateful for my T. She's so good to me and has done so much for me. She probably thinks I'm pretty weird sometimes too.
I'm glad to have her nerdyness because that's what makes her "her" and I love her.
LadyBug
Posted by RealMe on October 7, 2007, at 12:51:20
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes! » RealMe, posted by LadyBug on October 6, 2007, at 23:40:08
I had a weird therapist once, and I know he meant well, but we never hit it off. I ended up in Menninger's where I had a real stiff board of a person for an anyalyst. That did not work for me either. As an outpatient, I ended up with my hospital doctor who was a really down to earth person. I loved that man, and I wish he was still alive. He helped me so much. I just refused to talk about the abuse, but I did work on other stuff that helped me to be better put togehter so to speak. So, I went on and got doctorate and then 2 year postdoc at Menningers. HAH! I was one of the down to earth type of people, and I was pretty transparent, and I think this is what got me through the interview process with five different people. If I did not know the answer to something, I said so. They seemed to find that refreshing. And, most people do. I am still a down to earth person, but this does not mean I joke around and treat patients as if they are friends. I could still be serious but more not so stiff and formal that it seemed I did not care. And, I did use the psychoanalytic informed approach.
I miss doing therapy, but this is not the time. Doing the evals for court systems allows me to be in and out with someone and hopefully I help. Maybe we are talking about two different things. I do not like stiff boards and really uptight therapists, and maybe this is different from what you are referring to. I don't like really overintellectual therapists either. I know they are smart, and I want to say to them, Okay; lets get real here. My current analyst is a down to earth person who can joke and laugh, but he also gets really serious and maintains the frame and all else that goes along with a psychoanalytically informed approach. Wow, I did not think I would say this much. Take care, I am still laughing at your post. I enjoyed it as for the most part I agree with you.
RealMe
(OzLand)
Posted by rskontos on October 7, 2007, at 13:40:37
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes! » LadyBug, posted by RealMe on October 7, 2007, at 12:51:20
You know Ladybug, it seems to me that with you saying you have known this T for 10 years and I bet in that 10 years you probably have like never crossed a boundary so for you it is a big deal and maybe for her but she needs to chill and you do too. You did it you are a big girl and now it is over. She can hit delete, she can read it file it away she can use the information whatever. You did something you wanted to do, end of story. don't upset yourself. If she is smart she will grow and learn from this too!!!
Real me you aren't a nerd. You are cool. rk
Posted by RealMe on October 7, 2007, at 20:20:09
In reply to Re: Oh Man I do dumb stuff sometimes!, posted by rskontos on October 5, 2007, at 11:50:03
Well my T before the one I have started charging me for emails. He told me he would not respond to my emails, and so instead he started charging me; no warning; he also started to charge me for my journaling I gave him. Plus he started to charge me for the phone messages I left him. I decided to give him the boot for that and for other reasons.
My current T lets me email him but does not always respond. Sometimes he will respond with See you Tuesday so that I know he got my email.
LadyBug; though you said you did not want to talk about it all in therapy with sending the article via email, the relationship with a T is reflective of how we get ourselves into hot water with others. So, it is extremely important. I see that with my T too. He has commented on how I respond to him as if he was my mother or alteratively as if he was one of the people who abused me. What goes on between a therapist and patient is very important, and I catch myself now and then knowing I am misinterpreting my T's intentions and message. I used to be the Queen of that sort of thing years ago. Got to go now. Take care LadyBug and rskontos.
RealMe
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