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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gazo on April 5, 2007, at 14:57:24
again. i did it again. i went by his office building. i went in and hung out in the lobby and re-read the letter for the 100th time. i went up in the elevator and down the hall. i even bent down to see through the blinds if his office door was open or not. It was closed so i snuck into the wating room. Sadly, a door bell chimes when someone comes in and his door was open a bit. Good thing he was on the phone. The receptionist must have gone for the day though cuz her office was closed. So i bolted.... again.
i am not believing this. What is the big friggin' deal? It's just a letter for pete's sake! i actually LIKE the guy, he's not scary at all. He's quite friendly and charming. But i couldn't do it. i became terrified he'd get off the phone and come out... then i would've had to give it to him myself and stand there stammering.
i think i know what it is.. i think i am afraid that by doing this i am overstepping boundaries. i am afraid he will say that if i want him to look at something i have to wait until my appointment time... and then i would feel extremely bad.
i feel like he will think i am just bothering him. i am afraid i'll make him mad at me.
i am a big chicken :o(
Posted by Scentedgarden on April 5, 2007, at 17:20:08
In reply to cluck cluck cluck, posted by gazo on April 5, 2007, at 14:57:24
HI....... I don't care...i still like you..!!!! I still think you're really special. Cos u r<*> plus, aint nada wrong wi being an 'easter chick'... I still dig you babe cluck cluck or no cluck cluck...hahah... Have a chilled out Weekend...and maybe you can just give it to him at your next appt..or maybe you can go again next week after the easter hols is past...thats probably why the secretary had gone early or something like that...due to the holidays....U have so many choices, u can go there every day if you need to and still come aay with the leter undelivered, there's really no rules that say you gotta do this or that....lol...0h I'm rammbling now sorry...lol Im a rammbler hehe- I tried to babblemaiul you there but it wouldn't let me... awe...!! can u maybe babblemail me plz..? i'd like that if you would ... anyay I hope you're well tonight and that you have fun whatever you're doing... Sg...hugs and stay kool babe..xxxx
Posted by gazo on April 5, 2007, at 20:05:11
In reply to Re: cluck cluck cluck.. Hey there Gazo....-Ahoy.!!, posted by Scentedgarden on April 5, 2007, at 17:20:08
haha :o) you're such a funny girl.. a nut like me!! Sent you a message. i have no idea how to use babblemail. i'm a dope :/ an easter chick? cute cute cute. :o) i felt so stuuuupid. Sneaking in there and then bolting before he saw me. what a dork.
what's going on with you? i know things went bad :o( Do you have another T?
Posted by gazo on April 5, 2007, at 20:19:50
In reply to cluck cluck cluck, posted by gazo on April 5, 2007, at 14:57:24
hi again guys... i would appreciate feedback on the following, it's a bit out of the letter i am re-writing for my new T.
"As i was about to leave you said something about how you also wanted to be careful about me becoming dependent... or something like that.
You say “.. I don’t want you to become dependent.”
i hear “I don’t want to have to put up with you.”i don’t want to be dependent as much as i feel i need to be allowed to be. i need to be able to trust you far more than i need to worry about being dependent. i just can’t allow you access in any meaningful way if i have to concern myself with how attached or dependent i might become. i think ***** had too much concern about me becoming dependent and by doing so caused me to be more focussed on him than on working on me. "
Posted by Happyflower on April 5, 2007, at 20:34:30
In reply to cluck cluck cluck, posted by gazo on April 5, 2007, at 14:57:24
LOL Gazo, you are so awesome! :-) Hey, do you crow when the sun comes up in the morning? LOL I am just kidding you know, sweetie!
I believe your letter is good, sometimes it is easier to write what we feel than trying to say it in front of our T's. I have written various stuff like poetry and stuff for my T , and he is nice enough just to read it. I think once school is out, I might get into it again.
Take care of yourself chickie baby!
p.s. Do you know why the chicken ran across her T's office ?
To get to the other side of happiness in her life.
Posted by Iwillsurvive on April 5, 2007, at 22:24:37
In reply to cluck cluck cluck, posted by gazo on April 5, 2007, at 14:57:24
LOL! i would have bolted too! The chime thing would have TOTALLY thrown me! I too have snuck in and left stuff for T in the chair in front of her door, even though her door was open a crack, and that usu means its OK to knock, cuz she not in session or on a private phone call. But I just leave it on the chair! LOL!
As for your letter....dependant, mebbe btwn the two of you, you guys could decide just what that word even MEANS to you and him in the first place, it could be that you guys have differing ideas of just what dependant means...
Anyhow, take care.
Posted by gazo on April 6, 2007, at 0:10:12
In reply to Re: cluck cluck cluck » gazo, posted by Iwillsurvive on April 5, 2007, at 22:24:37
haha...glad i am not the only one! :o)
that is a really really good point! Maybe we don't have the same defnition.. i never thought of that. That is way cool.
i am glad your T will be back soon. i hope you share some of the journal writing with her.
Posted by Daisym on April 6, 2007, at 0:15:53
In reply to feedback on letter to T?, posted by gazo on April 5, 2007, at 20:19:50
I've been following your letter saga and it strikes me that you are trying to head him off at the pass - kind of set up the tone and rules of therapy via letter. But the little bit you posted of what you wrote in the letter suggests that you really need to have a conversation with him that mostly includes the "don't hurt me because my last therapist really did by leaving" piece.
I don't think you can dictate how this new therapist does therapy, or approaches you. I think you saying, "these are the things I'm worried about" is a really healthy approach. That way you can both decide how to work together and if it will work. But this is a process and it can't be rushed. And the trust will come from the interactions - the more you lay your fear bare, and he helps you with it, the more you will trust him.
I imagine that if you give him the letter at your next session, and tell him how hard it was for you to drop off, he will learn so much by this exchange. Just in reading your posts I can see that you really want to follow the rules and are afraid he will view you negatively, and perhaps refuse to work with you, if you break a rule or push a boundary. The problem with boundaries is that we don't really know where they are until we bump into them, and how we react, and how the therapist reacts, tells us a lot. I can see how much you are hurting and how scared you are that instead of helping, this new therapist will add to the hurt. I hear a little girl part of you asking him to let you need him, if only for a little while.
I write to my therapist all the time. But I share my writings in session most of the time. He says he learns a lot from the readings, not just from what I wrote but in my own emphasis on the words. I'm not saying you have to read this letter, but it is something to consider.
Mostly I'm struck by how badly you want this to work. I really hope he is the therapist you need and you are able to let him help you. Especially after all this angst!
Good luck,
Daisy
Posted by gazo on April 6, 2007, at 9:38:41
In reply to Re: feedback on letter to T? » gazo, posted by Daisym on April 6, 2007, at 0:15:53
wow Daisy.. that is powerful feedback. Thank you, sincerely and deeply. You are very insightful.
> I've been following your letter saga and it strikes me that you are trying to head him off at the pass - kind of set up the tone and rules of therapy via letter.
This thought had crossed my mind.. and in one version i actually said i didn't know if my motivation was to help him or attempt to control the situation. i think it might be both.
>"don't hurt me because my last therapist really did by leaving" piece.
yeah that. definiftely that. a lot of that.
>
> I don't think you can dictate how this new therapist does therapy, or approaches you. I think you saying, "these are the things I'm worried about" is a really healthy approach. That way you can both decide how to work together and if it will work. But this is a process and it can't be rushed. And the trust will come from the interactions - the more you lay your fear bare, and he helps you with it, the more you will trust him.you are absolutely right. it's hard for me to figure out what i am trying to do with the letters. on one hand i want to give him as much info as i can about things to look for. i really do want him to have the best shot at working with me as possible. i am trying to tell him what my fears are about working with him.. that i am afraid he won't see or hear me... that i am afraid he will get angry at me. on the other hand, i am trying to protect myself too, by telling him what to do i guess. so confusing. :o(
>
> I imagine that if you give him the letter at your next session, and tell him how hard it was for you to drop off, he will learn so much by this exchange.That is what happened last time, but i didn't give it to him until the end of session so i have no idea how that is going to go.
> Just in reading your posts I can see that you really want to follow the rules and are afraid he will view you negatively, and perhaps refuse to work with you, if you break a rule or push a boundary.
It is a MAJOR issue for me. definitely. i need him to understand that before anything bad happens.. how he handles it could put me in a psych ward. No lie. i want him to be aware of the big triggers that i know about. It's not just my past, it's my present.. the world i live in right now has some big consequences for getting things wrong. It has made me very afraid.
>I can see how much you are hurting and how scared you are that instead of helping, this new therapist will add to the hurt. I hear a little girl part of you asking him to let you need him, if only for a little while.
oh god daisy... thank you. i do hurt. So badly sometimes and no one sees it. People around me think i am so strong and happy. For whatever reason i am unable to show how i really feel, and i told my T that. If you can get that from my letter then it makes me hopeful he will too. i know he can't read my mind, and i don't know how to connect enough with how i feel to be able to just openly show him. i hope the letters bridge that.
>
> I write to my therapist all the time. But I share my writings in session most of the time. He says he learns a lot from the readings, not just from what I wrote but in my own emphasis on the words. I'm not saying you have to read this letter, but it is something to consider.
>
i can't read them aloud just yet. i think i will be able to once i feel more safe there. i can't explain it but when something is meaningful i open my mouth and no words come out.
> Mostly I'm struck by how badly you want this to work. I really hope he is the therapist you need and you are able to let him help you. Especially after all this angst!
>
i hope so too daisy. i really do. i am ready to do this now. i am very encouraged by his manner and the info he gave me. he was very open about his choice of methods and talked to me on his level, which is important because i clash with people who talk down to me. i feel a little betrayed by my former t for reasons other than the termination... long story. He doesn't know it but he actually did manage to touch the real me just for a split second with a comment he made. That really encourages me.ANgst is my middle name by the way ;o)
i don't know what you know about schema therapy, but it seems absolutely perfect for me. Perfect. It deals with childhood/young adult issues and traumas, along with the here and now. It puts more emphasis on the relationship between T and client and it says something about limited reparenting.. but i'm not sure i'd be into that. :/
i want very much to let him help me. i get torn between getting in his way and wanting to give him the inside track. If i know i react to certain things, or i have tendencies that might hinder him, then i feel like i should tell him up front. He did thank me for the things i told him before.
Thank you Daisy. i mean it. You've given me excellent feedback with lots to think about. i might even print this out and give it to him sometime because i think it's good observations.
Posted by Daisym on April 6, 2007, at 11:24:09
In reply to Re: feedback on letter to T? » Daisym, posted by gazo on April 6, 2007, at 9:38:41
Schema therapy has been around for awhile and I think its roots lie way back with Winnicott and the "good enough mother" theory. Attachment theory, mutual regulation...basically it comes down to finding a way to be interdependent with people in your life. Often, very often in therapy, this starts as being dependent - emotionally at least, until you can find balance. Because so many of us come in strongly independent it feels really scary to connect to someone and Lord help us, to want that connection. It sounds like your therapist is willing to work with this process, but the "I don't want you to become dependent" comment throws me a little. I'd bring it up and ask he what he meant. My therapist kept calling out ways I avoiding needing him and he made himself super available to me -- and now I know I need him, but there are times when it feels more balanced. (Not always for sure, sometimes it kills me to be separated from him.) But this is a long term process - years, not months, and many people can't stay in therapy that long, so avoiding the dependency, because there isn't time to work through it, can be smart.
Someone very wise on this board told me a long time ago that therapy would begin to work when I started to trust that my therapist knows how to do his job. I am one of those people, like you who reads everything, I work in human services and next week I finish a fellowship in ECMH. So I'm learning all kinds of theraputic theory and technique. I started out wanting to make sure he didn't do anything "to me" that I didn't recognize. And then I wanted to fix myself so he didn't have to. And then I wanted to avoid all the typical client mistakes and boundary crossings so that he would like me and not leave me. It was exhausting to be so hyper-vigilent.
He put up with all of it and would even talk theory with me. Yesterday was a bad day for me, I had a hard session and we ended up talking on the phone several hours later. He said, "I think you have a hard time feeling happiness because your mother didn't mirror your expansive states for you. So you have no internalized structure for regulating positive strong emotions - the fall back response is "ack! I don't trust it."" I grinned and said, "ah, I love it when you talk therapy to me!" He laughed...but he is right. The reason I'm telling you this is because if you tell your therapist how much you know and what you read, he might be able to incorporate it into your sessions. AND, he can help you watch for tendendies to fix yourself and take care of him.
I don't know if this makes sense, I hope it isn't too much about me. I just see myself a little in you and hope to help. When is your next appointment?
Posted by gazo on April 6, 2007, at 13:42:03
In reply to Re: feedback on letter to T? » gazo, posted by Daisym on April 6, 2007, at 11:24:09
Oh god no, it wasn't too much about you at all. i'm getting a lot out of the stuff you're sharing with me and i see a lot of myself in some of what you are saying.
> Schema therapy has been around for awhile and I think its roots lie way back with Winnicott...i haven't been able to find anything that relates it back to Winnicott... can you point me to anything? i see psychodynamic related back and i do know that schema does use some PD approaches, is that what you mean? From what i can gather it's primary roots are in CBT and gestalt. COrrect me if i am wrong.. honest cuz i want to understand.
"..Schema therapy draws on the cognitive-behavioral, attachment, psychodynamic, and emotion-focused traditions..."
Because so many of us come in strongly independent it feels really scary to connect to someone and Lord help us, to want that connection. It sounds like your therapist is willing to work with this process, but the "I don't want you to become dependent" comment throws me a little. I'd bring it up and ask he what he meant.what he said exactly was "..we want to be careful of you becoming dependent.." i'm pretty sure it was that.
does your T practice schema or psychodynamic?
PD T's operate a little differently don't they? From the stuff i am reading schema is heavily weighted on CBT, but delves into root causes as well. It doesn't put things as strongly into early childhood necessarily either, which i appreciate. i had a good early childhood actually. The stuff which i feel "damaged" me happened much later.of course, my understanding is just that and based on what i am reading. i could be wrong.
But this is a long term process - years, not months, and many people can't stay in therapy that long, so avoiding the dependency, because there isn't time to work through it, can be smart.
just about everything i find about schema talks about it being flexible, so it can be long or short depending on need and the weight put on various aspects. i have been getting the impression that it is midrange and that is what i expect. i don't know if he wants to keep it from becoming long, or if he feels it would be counterproductive for me or what. i do know that everything about schema i find talks about "limited reparenting" and even then only if absolutely necessary. It is the key point of contention against it from other disciplines. So maybe that is it. Maybe he doesn't agree with that aspect.
what i do know is that i am highly likely to become dependent and quickly. That part is a long story. You were right about hearing part of me wanting to need him, but it isn't a little girl. Not at all. That much i know myself and have had reaffirmed through the limited therapy i have had. i need to be able to relinquish control to a degree and that involves some dependency.
>
> Someone very wise on this board told me a long time ago that therapy would begin to work when I started to trust that my therapist knows how to do his job.hahaha... that had occurred to me, but i am such a perfectionist and i have control issues Lol! It bugs the crap out of me to feel he may see me in a light other than what i want to project.
>I am one of those people, like you who reads everything, I work in human services and next week I finish a fellowship in ECMH.
Congrats!!! :o)
So I'm learning all kinds of theraputic theory and technique. I started out wanting to make sure he didn't do anything "to me" that I didn't recognize. And then I wanted to fix myself so he didn't have to. And then I wanted to avoid all the typical client mistakes and boundary crossings so that he would like me and not leave me. It was exhausting to be so hyper-vigilent.
ah hypervigilence. That is me. Oh boy that is me. It's not rocket science to understand why if you knew my history. i've moved through a lot of the fix-myself stage to a point where i know i can no longer think myself out of where i am at. i have done what i can do alone. i am smack dab in like-me-don't-leave-me.
>
> He put up with all of it and would even talk theory with me.That is a point i do make in my letter. he didn't talk down to me and he did talk theory with me. It is important to me. Not because i don't want him to "do" anything to me though.. it's more about giving me credit for a)having a brain b)for the dedication and work i have done on my own and will do with him. My pdoc talks to me on HIS level and we work very well together. i research medications and present why i should try them and sometimes he reads it and agrees. It's empowering.
>" I grinned and said, "ah, I love it when you talk therapy to me!"
i always break into a wide grin when they hit a nail on the head, esp when it something i had not thought of. It's just humbling and funny to me. i want to be in the loop because eventually i will be on my own and will do better if i have the tools to understand and solve my own problems.
>The reason I'm telling you this is because if you tell your therapist how much you know and what you read, he might be able to incorporate it into your sessions. AND, he can help you watch for tendendies to fix yourself and take care of him.
another thing i read said that CBT-S puts emphasis on education, so they encourage clients to read about the process and technique. i think it makes perfect sense and i'm going to do it anyway. i have done enough research papers to know how to use and understand journal articles. Right now i could probably start writing a paper about schema technique! Hahaha!
>
> I don't know if this makes sense, I hope it isn't too much about me. I just see myself a little in you and hope to help. When is your next appointment?
>
as i said, i am getting a lot out of this. i would appreciate any tips, pointers and info you can share. Links to schema info would be great. i see myself in your descriptions too. :o)my appt is monday @ 2. i only have every second week because it's already more than i can afford. :o( It might become impossible because after next week i won't have a job. There are some options to continie therapy.. but i am reluctant to take them
yet. we shall see.thanks for putting so much time and thought into responding daisy.. you're giving me a huge amount to work with.
Posted by Happyflower on April 6, 2007, at 21:28:33
In reply to Re: feedback on letter to T? » gazo, posted by Daisym on April 6, 2007, at 11:24:09
I have found too that since my T knows I am studying psych, he has changed the way he relates to me. Even now that I am taking philosopy classes, which he loves, and I didn't know at the time, he talks differently with me. We tend to have more intellectialconversations about therapy and really all things in life and he seems to value and be interested in my view of things more now.
The conversation sometimes gets into some really deep philosopy talks which I love about existentialism
and how it relates to me and how I live my life.
I feel it has added another demension to my therapy.
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