![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 106. Go back in thread:
Posted by orchid on June 15, 2006, at 20:47:12
In reply to Not drunk yet, but working on it, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 20:36:16
Of course you won't terminate him or rather shouldn't. Not over this. I am sure you can let him know how bad you feel, and you can work through it.
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 20:55:47
In reply to Re: Not drunk yet, but working on it » Dinah, posted by orchid on June 15, 2006, at 20:47:12
Why not "over this". Don't you think "this" was a bad thing to do?
Don't you think it was a bad thing to do to actively convince me to stay in N.O. knowing that I was expecting that I could see him twice a week, yet knowing that that was really iffy for the next two months? And what will he do next? Go out of the country again for a month? Take another day job?
God only knows he should take a day job because he shouldn't be seeing clients.
Don't you think it was a bad thing to sit in a session with my husband a week ago Monday and tell my husband that now that he was back in town we'd be meeting twice a week again? When he knew he wouldn't be available except at night for that second session? And we've been through this before. Things come up where he's assigned in such a way that he can't be back to town at night to see clients. Last time, he could see me at night half the time at best, maybe less. In fact for sure less because he had the job for three or four months and I saw him at night three or four time.
He sat there and misled, if not outright lied, to my husband and myself. In such a way that affected a major life decision.
You don't think that's worth terminating him over?
I think it's worth a hell of a lot more than termination.
Posted by LadyBug on June 15, 2006, at 21:04:01
In reply to Sh*t faced B*STARD, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 19:16:22
Dinah,
I CAN'T BELIEVE HE IS DOING THIS TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!! He's more bad than good for pulling this one on you!!!!! Oh my freakin Hell I can see why your pissed!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm pissed for you!!!!!!!! I can't believe you put him in part of the equation of you moving and then he pulls this on you!!!! OOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!
I'm sorry he's so thoughtless!!!!!!! I'll be surprised if you go to him again. This morning when I was on here I was thinking, WOW! Dinah's T is pretty awesome to meet her on Father's Day. My T only works Monday through Friday. She met me on a Sat. one time, in over 9 years. And it was only because she was afraid I was going to quit coming to see her and she wanted to prove to me that she cared. Did she? Well only she knows the truth to that. Sometimes I wonder if any of them care aout any of us!!!!!!!! I better stop before I get way pissed for you!
I'm sorry. I do care.
LadyBug
LadyBug
Posted by orchid on June 15, 2006, at 21:08:46
In reply to Re: Not drunk yet, but working on it » orchid, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 20:55:47
Hmm... I must have missed something. I think I didn't quite understand your first post. I thought he was going to take up some job in the day time so he could see you at night and there might be some issues but you could manage to work around the schedule. And of course I was mad he didn't tell you about it, but somehow didn't think it was worth terminating a 10 year relationship.
I am sorry I am not thinking straight.
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 21:48:17
In reply to Sh*t faced B*STARD, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 19:16:22
About the unasterisked b*stard.
I really wanted to asterisk the b*stard.
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 22:06:27
In reply to Sorry Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 21:48:17
All my rum is gone, and I can still touch my nose with my eyes closed. :(
I think my husband might have some beer somewhere. Nose wrinkle.
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 22:14:45
In reply to Re: Sh*t faced B*STARD » Dinah, posted by LadyBug on June 15, 2006, at 21:04:01
Thanks Ladybug.
I was so angry that I broke my front door coming in. My husband's going to have to fix it.
I guess I really feel betrayed. I think he knew that if I knew this, I'd leave. And I feel like he's deliberately misled me and destroyed my chance of getting out of this h*llhole. All for my income stream.
I think it's going to end up that I'm only going to see him once a week. Which may be for the best since I want to break my attachment to such an unworthy object. But I'd rather it be my choice to cut back than his.
Even if he can see me, which is doubtful based on the fact that he couldn't very often last time and this is the same sort of job, I don't know that I want to go to a less than wonderful part of town at night. Last time it was completely dark at times, and it was pretty scary walking to my solitary car all alone when I could barely see in front of me. In fact that was yet another stupid thing I did for my attachment to this person.
Posted by curtm on June 15, 2006, at 22:45:05
In reply to Sh*t faced B*STARD, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 19:16:22
Posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 3:39:12
In reply to Not drunk yet, but working on it, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 20:36:16
> It is abandonment issues of course. But it's also anger with my own stupidity, and his.
>
> This past Sunday he had two perfect times to mention it (other than when I asked if he had anything he needed to tell me). I told him that it was stupid for us to stay in N.O because of him because he could get a job at any time. And he said that that had always been true, but that he had no plans to do any such thing.
>
> And then after the close of the session proper, when he finally bothered to mention he'd be out of town this week, he could have mentioned that the training class was for his new job.
>
> I'm trying to decide whether to terminate him before or on Sunday.Gosh, it’s even worse than I’d first realised.
I know what you mean about feeling stupid. I always feel incredibly stupid when I allow myself to trust someone and then they let me down. To me it suggests that I’m not worth caring about, and since I knew that I feel for stupid for forgetting and hoping to be loved. Is it like that for you, or is it different?
But of course he’s the one who has been stupid. And yeah, of course you’re angry about that. It also sounds as if he’s somewhat unrealistic about how available he will be able to be for you, probably because he hopes he will be as available as you need him to be. And of course you don’t share his hope because you are basing your expectations on past experience, whereas he doesn’t seem to acknowledge or understand your past experience of his (un)availability.
I imagine you must feel very distressed right now. (((((Dinah)))))
Please stay safe. We love you.Tamar
Posted by fallsfall on June 16, 2006, at 7:30:40
In reply to Sorry Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 21:48:17
You SHOULD asterisk the b*stard.
This sounds like a great time to do what is good for YOU. To stop the hurt that he is visiting upon you. You deserve better. It would be better to have noone to rely on than to be hurt over and over again by this man.
Would being without him really be worse than being with him?? I think not.
Sending you courage,
Falls
Posted by gardenergirl on June 16, 2006, at 8:31:18
In reply to Re: Sorry Dr. Bob » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on June 16, 2006, at 7:30:40
Oh my goodness, Dinah. I'm so sorry this happened, and no wonder you're furious. I am too.
I really think that his "thinking he already told you" is either an outright lie or a sure sign from his unconscious that he places his needs way way way above that of his clients. I'm not saying he shouldn't have taken the job, but there's absolutely no reason I can think of for not telling you, especially given the two opportunities you described.
I think your anger is real and is justified. And I do think you should express it to him. But I hope you can take some time before making any decisions, until your anger abates a bit. And then take this data point and add it in with all the others to see what it means.
(((((((((Dinah)))))))))))
I wish he were more professional in his behavior.
gg
Posted by pegasus on June 16, 2006, at 9:03:02
In reply to Re: Sorry Dr. Bob » fallsfall, posted by gardenergirl on June 16, 2006, at 8:31:18
Man, this guy is so checked out as a therapist, he needs to be removed from the position. Has he not been paying any attention to you over the past 10 years? I'm furious at him on your behalf.
And . . . oh . . . how much hurt you must have! First to face his lack of concern for you, and then to face the decision of whether to stick with him in the face of that. He has made it so hard for you to stay with him now! Especially if you are going to maintain any kind of commitment to taking care of yourself. He is a b*stard! I wish you strength, and the courage to choose to take care of yourself.
peg
Posted by B2chica on June 16, 2006, at 9:24:12
In reply to Sh*t faced B*STARD, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 19:16:22
(((((Dinah)))))))
i would be FURIOUS too! you have Every right. and i know saying that doesn't make you feel any better. but i think your emotions are VERY understandable and you should NOT keep them in. maybe (after a few drinks) you could write a letter to him expressing JUST how you feel. then later you can decide if you want to give it to him or better yet maybe burn it. (fire helps me)
but just so you know. my last T (which i loved) from day one he told me that he was looking for another position and that he may need to leave in the future. so i was fully aware that he may leave and i opted to see him anyway. This was very professional and quite frankly the best way to handle things.
i don't understand why he wouldn't have mentioned it to you even a month in advance that it 'could' happen. i'm so sorry for you D.(((hugs))))
b2c.
Posted by Poet on June 16, 2006, at 10:20:57
In reply to Re: Sh*t faced B*STARD, posted by B2chica on June 16, 2006, at 9:24:12
Hi Dinah,
What I want to say will be deemed uncivil, so I'll do a cleaned up version. Drop the mother(expletive deleted) already!
He has let you down far too many times. For almost a year he's done nothing, but hurt you. It seems to me that you care about him much more than he cares about you. He doesn't need a day job what he needs is long term therapy to work out his issues. Dinah, you are not his therapist, you need to get yourself out of the position of being it.
I am so sorry that the SFB has treated you so poorly. You have done nothing to deserve it. If I were you I'd tell him off and walk away. I know easy for me to say and do, it's just what I would do if I were in your shoes. I don't want to hurt you, I'm expressing my opinion.
((((((((((((Dinah)))))))))))))) Safe cyber hugs.
And a hard cyber slap across your T's face.
Poet
Posted by AuntieMel on June 16, 2006, at 10:34:05
In reply to Re: Not drunk yet, but working on it » orchid, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 20:55:47
I would drop him in a heartbeat over this. A major life decision, based on not knowing all the information?
You see, my defensive mechanism wouldn't allow me to give someone like that a second chance to hurt me. When I'm injured I can form a scap pretty quick, but that scab can open up quickly when I'm re-exposed. My solution is to eliminate the exposure.
You need to put yourself first, Dinah, and take care of yourself.
> Why not "over this". Don't you think "this" was a bad thing to do?
>
> Don't you think it was a bad thing to do to actively convince me to stay in N.O. knowing that I was expecting that I could see him twice a week, yet knowing that that was really iffy for the next two months? And what will he do next? Go out of the country again for a month? Take another day job?
>
> God only knows he should take a day job because he shouldn't be seeing clients.
>
> Don't you think it was a bad thing to sit in a session with my husband a week ago Monday and tell my husband that now that he was back in town we'd be meeting twice a week again? When he knew he wouldn't be available except at night for that second session? And we've been through this before. Things come up where he's assigned in such a way that he can't be back to town at night to see clients. Last time, he could see me at night half the time at best, maybe less. In fact for sure less because he had the job for three or four months and I saw him at night three or four time.
>
> He sat there and misled, if not outright lied, to my husband and myself. In such a way that affected a major life decision.
>
> You don't think that's worth terminating him over?
>
> I think it's worth a hell of a lot more than termination.
Posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
In reply to Re: I would » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on June 16, 2006, at 10:34:05
I think I'll keep the appointment Sunday just to find out when he had an inkling that this would be happening. If it was before 6/5, then I'll know he deliberately misled my husband and I in order to influence us to stay in town. Because I *would* have decided to leave if he hadn't dangled the prospect of things getting back to stable and normal in therapy. And while he was neutral in front of my husband, he was not in general neutral with me.
That should be an unforgiveable breach of trust.
But likely it won't be. Most likely I'll stay with him, and you all will be as frustrated and angry with me as people are with wives who stay in abusive situations.
I hope at least I have the courage to pass on the second session a week. The more I remember how it was the less I want to even try it. He never knew on Sunday if he could see me that week, so he'd tell me he'd call. And he'd forget to call. And I'd assume that was because he couldn't see me. But sometimes it was just because he forgot to call. And of course probably he forgot because he just didn't want to see clients after a stressful day at work. And I understand that. But sitting by my phone week after week wondering if he could see me hurt far worse than just knowing I wouldn't see him.
I can't believe he didn't tell me. He knows how hard this last eight months has been for me. He knows how he has hurt me over and over and over again. I told him I *wanted* to move if therapy was going to continue to be this way. That I couldn't bear being hurt like that continuously. And he told me it was over. That things would get back to normal. That he hadn't realize it had been so harmful to me but that it was over. That he wouldn't keep hurting me. That he was back to stay and he could see me twice a week on a stable schedule. That we could try to repair things.
And this wasn't long ago either. This was two and three weeks ago. And he didn't tell me the truth until it was too late to move.
I'm inclined to leave my husband and get out of town anyway, at least until this horrible addiction is broken. Because I know that I don't have the strength to stay here and not see him.
Posted by MidnightBlue on June 16, 2006, at 12:28:41
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
Dinah,
I can't get this out of my head. First of all, this is EXACTLY like being in an abusive marriage only WORSE. He is supposed to be your T. He is supposed to be honest and trustworthy. He is supposed to be helping you get better.
If I'm figuring this right, he has taken $100,000 of your money. Is that right? You said $10,000 a year for 10 years? OH what I could do with $100,000! Think what YOU could have done.
Are you 100% sure it is too late for your husband to move? You BOTH have been lied to. This is so so not right.
Honestly, I'd keep the Sunday appointment just to tell him it was our last. I'd unload all the pent up anger and walk out. Then I'd get on a plane and fly to that spa in South Carolina you wanted to go to!
HUGS,
MidnightBlue
> I think I'll keep the appointment Sunday just to find out when he had an inkling that this would be happening. If it was before 6/5, then I'll know he deliberately misled my husband and I in order to influence us to stay in town. Because I *would* have decided to leave if he hadn't dangled the prospect of things getting back to stable and normal in therapy. And while he was neutral in front of my husband, he was not in general neutral with me.
>
> That should be an unforgiveable breach of trust.
>
> But likely it won't be. Most likely I'll stay with him, and you all will be as frustrated and angry with me as people are with wives who stay in abusive situations.
>
> I hope at least I have the courage to pass on the second session a week. The more I remember how it was the less I want to even try it. He never knew on Sunday if he could see me that week, so he'd tell me he'd call. And he'd forget to call. And I'd assume that was because he couldn't see me. But sometimes it was just because he forgot to call. And of course probably he forgot because he just didn't want to see clients after a stressful day at work. And I understand that. But sitting by my phone week after week wondering if he could see me hurt far worse than just knowing I wouldn't see him.
>
> I can't believe he didn't tell me. He knows how hard this last eight months has been for me. He knows how he has hurt me over and over and over again. I told him I *wanted* to move if therapy was going to continue to be this way. That I couldn't bear being hurt like that continuously. And he told me it was over. That things would get back to normal. That he hadn't realize it had been so harmful to me but that it was over. That he wouldn't keep hurting me. That he was back to stay and he could see me twice a week on a stable schedule. That we could try to repair things.
>
> And this wasn't long ago either. This was two and three weeks ago. And he didn't tell me the truth until it was too late to move.
>
> I'm inclined to leave my husband and get out of town anyway, at least until this horrible addiction is broken. Because I know that I don't have the strength to stay here and not see him.
Posted by fallsfall on June 16, 2006, at 12:57:46
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
>Because I know that I don't have the strength to stay here and not see him.
We will help you. You can do this.
((((((((((Dinah))))))))))
Even if this wasn't intentional on his part, even if he couldn't have told you earlier, the point is that you need stable therapy and he isn't giving you either stability nor therapy.
We will help you. You can do this.
Falls.
Posted by All Done on June 16, 2006, at 13:14:11
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
(((Dinah))),
My heart is breaking for you. No matter what you decide, though, we will be here for you.
I can only imagine how you're feeling right now and I wish there was more I could do to help. Even if I walked a mile in your shoes, I still wouldn't understand all the intricacies that make you the wonderful you that you are. So, take care of yourself and take the time you need to make the right decision for you.
I'm around, if you need to talk. I promise...no frustration, anger, or judgement.
Hugs,
LaurieP.S. Make sure you give him a few special "Poet cyber slaps on the head" from me, though.
Posted by Jost on June 16, 2006, at 13:16:28
In reply to Re: I would, posted by fallsfall on June 16, 2006, at 12:57:46
Hi, Dinah.
I'm somewhat horrified by this turn of events with your T. Not having been on psychobabble very long, I dont' know the history, except the latest part about the struggle about whether to leave where you were. Your relationship with your T was a deciding, if not the deciding, factor, as it seemed.
If that's so, then you have a very deep involvement or dependency on this person, and it sounds as though, whatever his good and helpful or engaging qualities, he is a deeply unreliable person.
That sounds a very problematic combination (your reliance and his unreliability). If he didn't mention being away, or the possiblity of being away (since jobs don't drop out of the sky without someone's at least signing up to be considered, usually), while encouraging you to stay in N.O. to see him regularly, it sounds really unethical to me. Certainly unprofessional. And very very untrustworthy.
How can you stop your relationship in a helpful-to-you way? Just cutting your T off angrily or impulsively, or just half-sticking it out in the hope that you will someday (or even soon) be able to slip away easily both seem unrealistic, and not in your best interest.
At least have a consultation with another T, for a number of sessions. This is not a situation that you should be in alone-- and this T doesn't sound as if he's someone who has the self-awareness or disinterestedness to cope and to help you make a transition to someone who can be a reliable person.
I really feel for you in this.
Jost.
Posted by madeline on June 16, 2006, at 13:55:32
In reply to Sh*t faced B*STARD, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 19:16:22
Although I completely understand why you are upset, I think you are making too much out of this. All this is is a minor blip in scheduling and that’s probably why he forgot to mention it. It’s not even permanent.
I suspect this is why he didn’t want to influence your decision to move and why he became distant to you during the decision process. If you say that you stayed because of him, that would have put you both in a terrible position. One where he can’t make a mistake without you saying “I stayed here, altered my whole life and you do THIS!” leading to inevitable resentment and disappointment.
Remember, this is just a blip in scheduling, it is not a slap in the face of your decision, which he never wanted to be about him anyway.
Just my two cents.
Posted by happyflower on June 16, 2006, at 14:19:04
In reply to I know I'm in the minority here... » Dinah, posted by madeline on June 16, 2006, at 13:55:32
((((((Dinah)))))) I am so sorry you are hurting so much. Will you still have the permanant once a week therapy? Or is he stoping that too? Is it the 2nd session he is not sure about?
I know you are mad, and you need to direct that right at the source, HIM! But I have convidence that everything will work out for you two. You have been working a long time with him and i am sure he can handle your anger, so let him have it. I am thinking everything will be okay, but I understand you being so mad that you want to terminate. (((((((Dinah)))))
Posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 14:28:17
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
> I think I'll keep the appointment Sunday just to find out when he had an inkling that this would be happening. If it was before 6/5, then I'll know he deliberately misled my husband and I in order to influence us to stay in town. Because I *would* have decided to leave if he hadn't dangled the prospect of things getting back to stable and normal in therapy. And while he was neutral in front of my husband, he was not in general neutral with me.
Oh good grief. So he encouraged you to think that things were returning to normal while he was in the process of lining up this other job? I’m getting in line to give him one of those cyber slaps.
> That should be an unforgiveable breach of trust.
>
> But likely it won't be. Most likely I'll stay with him, and you all will be as frustrated and angry with me as people are with wives who stay in abusive situations.I won’t be frustrated and angry if you stay with him. I’ll be concerned for you, however. I think it *is* an abuse of your love for him, and he needs to acknowledge that it is extremely serious. At the very least, he ought to promise you that he will do some intensive therapy himself, or go to supervision, or something like that. I think he needs to acknowledge that he must not keep hurting you and he needs to take responsibility for sorting things out in his own head. It shouldn’t be your problem, and yet it has been your problem over and over again.
> I hope at least I have the courage to pass on the second session a week. The more I remember how it was the less I want to even try it. He never knew on Sunday if he could see me that week, so he'd tell me he'd call. And he'd forget to call. And I'd assume that was because he couldn't see me. But sometimes it was just because he forgot to call. And of course probably he forgot because he just didn't want to see clients after a stressful day at work. And I understand that. But sitting by my phone week after week wondering if he could see me hurt far worse than just knowing I wouldn't see him.
I can completely understand that. It would be worse for me too. If he isn’t in a position to make plans three or four evenings ahead, then he can’t expect you to be in a position to drop everything to see him, or to hang around hoping he’ll phone. It wouldn’t be fair in any relationship, and it’s especially unfair in a professional relationship.
> I can't believe he didn't tell me. He knows how hard this last eight months has been for me. He knows how he has hurt me over and over and over again. I told him I *wanted* to move if therapy was going to continue to be this way. That I couldn't bear being hurt like that continuously. And he told me it was over. That things would get back to normal. That he hadn't realize it had been so harmful to me but that it was over. That he wouldn't keep hurting me. That he was back to stay and he could see me twice a week on a stable schedule. That we could try to repair things.B*stard. It really does sound like a deliberate lie. How could he suggest the uncertainty was over if he didn’t know for sure that he could see you twice a week on a stable schedule? Trying to repair things only works if both parties take responsibility for their part of the relationship. He really needs to make a decision. Can he be the therapist you need him to be? Or can’t he?
> And this wasn't long ago either. This was two and three weeks ago. And he didn't tell me the truth until it was too late to move.
I want to believe that this has been a countertransferential oversight rather than a deliberate lie. I want to believe that he is so committed to being a good therapist to you that he wasn’t able to acknowledge to himself that he was setting you up for another hurt. I want to believe that he genuinely wishes to be the therapist you need and so finds it hard to face his own shortcomings. It’s the best spin I can think to put on it. And it still leaves him lacking in basic professional competence.
> I'm inclined to leave my husband and get out of town anyway, at least until this horrible addiction is broken. Because I know that I don't have the strength to stay here and not see him.
I think there is a very real question about your sense of self worth. If he has hurt you repeatedly and knows it and has promised to make things change, and now has hurt you again, it must be absolutely devastating. It’s the sort of thing that would floor anyone, but for someone with mental health problems it’s unspeakable. He needs to agree to a long term solution and he needs to stick to it. And one thing he needs to do is to make sure that he will be able to provide adequate care for you when he gets other jobs. He can’t expect you to wait for him to return, or to see him one evening in twenty-five. He has a very real responsibility for you and it’s time he got his head around it.
((((((((((Dinah))))))))))
Give him hell.
Posted by Poet on June 16, 2006, at 16:39:17
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
Hi Dinah,
Whatever you decide I won't be angry with you. I wish I could fly down there and really slap him for you.
*I'm Poet, Dinah couldn't make it today. She gave me something to give you though.* A hard punch in the nose. Along with a few choice words regarding his ancestory.
You don't deserve to be treated like this, Dinah, I don't think your T is worthy of someone like you. He should pay you for your time. Damn him. Enough, I'll stop, sorry, this isn't helping you make a decision. I wish I could help you make that decision.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 17:15:17
In reply to Re: I would » Dinah, posted by Poet on June 16, 2006, at 16:39:17
I finally got enough in my system to make a difference.
I guess I'll wait to hear what he has to say.
When he knew about this makes a big difference.
If he didn't know when he talked to us, then he's just being his usual avoidant and inconsiderate self, I guess.
If he did know, I don't know if I can forgive this. He knew that I was only staying for him, and for the chance of things getting back to normal in therapy. We talked about it, and he thought that was an ok reason.
Not that I think it will make a difference. I'm not strong enough to leave him. So I'll keep working at a job that hurts me to pay for my therapist who will also hurt me over and over.
I'm absolutely brilliant aren't I.
I think I acquit him of any ill intent except maybe wanting to protect his income stream. I think Tamar's right. He does want to be a good therapist to me, he overestimates what he can do, and he avoids things that are upsetting to him. And then he looks like my dogs after they've eaten a pen, and have ink all over their paws. Who me? I didn't do anything wrong. Why are you so upset?
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