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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 8:18:14
i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her i failed her
my t...i failed her.....i failed her so very badly. And maybe myself too, but her the most. I feel like I'm being shredded from the inside out, and I'm not sure where to put it all (....I guess most of it ends up here, I'm sorry for that).God, Fate, the Universe.....whatever "Else" is out there.....It can't be that cruel, can it? To have struggled through almost two years with her, which were probably as equally if not more difficult and profound and meaningful to her as they were to me....and then have it had ended the way it did, with a wet fizzle.....This can't be it, can it? There has to be more to this story, there has to be.
I have to do it for her. Even if she never finds out about it, or never knows how it turns out.
Maybe then I can fix some of this. Maybe then I would have honored her and our work together, finally.
Maybe...
Posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 8:50:53
In reply to i failed her, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 8:18:14
A therapist isn't supposed to have expectations of where we should be. I think your therapist probably cared about you exactly where you were.
But...
I think entering the program and doing your best to become as healthy a person in every way as possible would be a lovely tribute to your time together, and would make her very happy if she should ever discover it.
I do things all the time for my therapist that I would never bother doing for me.
Posted by Poet on May 16, 2005, at 10:34:52
In reply to i failed her, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 8:18:14
(((((((SV)))))))))))
Hold on tight to that maybe. That little maybe says that you can do this for yourself, not just for her, but for you.
Poet
Posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 10:46:08
In reply to Re: i failed her » shrinking violet, posted by Poet on May 16, 2005, at 10:34:52
Posted by Shortelise on May 16, 2005, at 12:17:11
In reply to i failed her, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 8:18:14
(((SV)))
Sweet Violet, it's all part of the journey, says the old hippie in my heart. The more evolved part of me feels for you so deeply and truly.
It seems true to me,too, that what you do for your T is also for you. That part of you that's in there that wants to live a strong, happy life.
((sv)) take a deep breath. Often. We'll all get through this ok.
ShortE
Posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 13:23:02
In reply to You didn't fail her » shrinking violet, posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 8:50:53
First, Thank you {{{{{Dina, Poet, Happyflower, Shortelise}}}}}} for your encouragement. I appreciate it and need it more than you know.
I keep wavering on this "decision" which causes me to question my motives and motivation. In my head, it sounds tolerable. But taking any actual steps....my stomach turns to water and I start doubting everything.I saw my psych today....Today was supposed to be the last appointment, but she wants to see me Thursday too. I'm surprised at how honest I was....I told her of this sudden "change of heart" about going into IP, and for me, right now, it's either try that or just lay down and die, b/c I cannot stand this suspension anymore. I'm not sure how seriously they take me....I'm not sure whether to ultimately believe myself either, but, I want peace so badly that I think I'd do whatever I had to in order to get it.
When she brought up some tangible steps to take....calling the center for an evaluation appt, or seeing the head nurse there who might give me a little push into calling them....I told her I wasn't ready for either one yet. So, I don't know. And next week, I'll be all alone, on my own. If I couldn't do this in the two years I had multiple people around me who would have flown through hoops to help me do this, then I know there's no way I can do it on my own (well, ultimately, I'd be IP on my own, and have to DO it......but getting started seems the hardest part). So then that brings me back to my motives, whether this is just a last minute desperate attempt to forestall the inevitable and put off graduation for another semester? On the surface, no, but unconsciously...I don't know.
It's funny, b/c my psych today said she's always seen a strength in me, and she thinks that it just took the past couple of years for that strength to start to show itself (and maybe it needed a little push with the losing of my supports, etc). It's odd that she said that, b/c I've been imagining/feeling this small flicker of light (cliche, I know, bear with me), deep down (very deep, in my toes maybe). Maybe it's just that annoying innate survival instinct, maybe it's a genuine will to live, maybe it's a part of me that things I MIGHT deserve something a little better than what I'm giving myself now...whatever it is, I think my T put it there. I'm not sure whether to love her or curse her for it yet, though, and there's still a huge part of me that is trying to find any way to put the blasted thing out.
I also told my psych my desire to do this for my T (ahem, "ex" T). She seemed touched, said my T would be "dancing in her heart" and she reiterated my T's offer to help me with this IP thing if I wanted to involve her (not sure I do....I do, but, I don't want to bother her either. She's paid her dues with me, maybe best to leave her in peace). But then she said that she had lunch with my T on Friday afternoon (which was the last session with my T), and my psych made it sound like my T was fine, that she showed her the gifts I brought her, etc. So, I'm thinking, "Gee, my T doesn't miss me at all. She isn't broken up in the least bit that she'll never see me again. And she must feel okay about everything, so, no need to do anything for her now." Not that I want my T to feel badly, or like she failed me, or anything, but.....Am I the only one of the two of us who thinks the last session wasn't at all what it should have been given the intensity and depth of our work together? Am I the only one who questions what the hell the past couple of years with her have been *for* other than to make everything worse for me emotionally? Am I the only one who deeply misses the other?Apparently.
I just know I'm so very confused and panicked and sick and sad and afraid....and alone.
What am I going to do now, on my own? The past couple of years, I took for granted the people I had around me who would have helped, been there, held me up (and they have done that, but I never fully utilized any of it. I pushed it away, or twisted it, or threw it back at them in a childish tantrum). Now that I'm facing all of these changes, questions, options....there's no one there, and it's my fault. My stupidity and rigidity and stubborness.
I can't even, words can't even describe how deeply utterly desperately afraid I am right now.
And I miss my T so much, it hurts so badly..... I work at the library, which is next to the counseling center's building. And my final appts at Health Services is "down the hill" from my T's office building, and I can see it from there. I can see the window to her office....Someone help me.
:-(
Posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 13:46:57
In reply to i overestimated my worth, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 13:23:02
Hi SV,
There is no question of who deserves what in this life. People get things lot by luck. By luck or God's plan or by Karma, some people end up being born in good families, and end up having a good life.
Some people are born in not so great familes and have to struggle.
So it is really not the question of your individual worth. Lots and Lots of things have gone into making you who you are right now, and you didn't control any of it. Your parents, your inherited wealth, your country etc.. these are all beyond your control.
Whenver you start doubting yourself, think that each of us is responsible for who we ended up to be only 25 %. The rest 75 % was given to us or forced upon us. And nobody really deserves or not deserve anything they get in life. People who are millionaires, people who are happy, people who are extremely beautiful - how do you know if they deserved it?
If they can have a good life, so can you. You are as worthy of everything as everyone around you in this whole planet is (except for people who really do real bad things to other people voluntarily - like serial killers etc). It took me a long time to understand this. But I understood it only recently.. I figured if I am to be guilty, then so is everyone around me.. If I am to be unworthy, then so is everyone around me.
Posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 14:00:24
In reply to You are as worthy as everyone around you are » shrinking violet, posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 13:46:57
>> Whenver you start doubting yourself, think that each of us is responsible for who we ended up to be only 25 %. The rest >>75 % was given to us or forced upon us. And nobody really deserves or not deserve anything they get in life. People who >>are millionaires, people who are happy, people who are extremely beautiful - how do you know if they deserved it?
>>
>> If they can have a good life, so can you. You are as worthy of everything as everyone around you in this whole planet is >>(except for people who really do real bad things to other people voluntarily - like serial killers etc). It took me a long time >>to understand this. But I understood it only recently.. I figured if I am to be guilty, then so is everyone around me.. If I am >>to be unworthy, then so is everyone around me.--Hi Pinkeye, Thank you.
My psych, T, etc (and anyone else who thinks they know me and knows how I really feel....not many) keep trying to convince me that I'm "deserving" of good things.
But...they don't know me. No one does. It's easy to tell someone who you think is a decent person this, to reassure them, but you can't see into people's hearts. I *have* done things, really crappy just-plain-wrong things.....I've never murdered or abused anyone, and I do my best to save insects I find in the house rather than smash them flat....But still, I'm NOT a good person. I'm not. And if you knew it all, then you'd agree too. My T, she's a good person, "good" in the most pure form of the word. I am the opposite. I just need to figure out if the past 10+ years of stuff I've had to cope with is enough punishment. I'm not sure.
[and thanks for making the effort to try to convince me....not an easy task ;-) ]
Take care,
sv
Posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 14:11:50
In reply to Re: You are as worthy as everyone around you are, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 14:00:24
Well, everyone around here has done the same things.
And if someone has the right to punish you, let that be God who decides. You don't even have a right to judge yourself, you are just not taht capable. You don't know all the external influences that went on to shape your life. If God thinks you are not worhty, he would take it into his hands and will give you the right punishment. You don't have to take up his JOB on yourself. If you take up that job, you will only end up making things worse. Let HIM decide what you are worthy or not worthy. You just do your best. Ok?
You don't have the perfect knowledge to understand everything. You don't know what your T has done in her past, if she has hurt anyone badly. You cannot by any means determine if you are worthy of some thing or not worhty of some thing. For instance, you are born in the US and have food and access to internet. Someone in India or Africa - don't have access to even food for the next meal. How do you know if you are worthy of it or how do you know if the kid in India or Africa didn't deserve food? You just don't know. So stop trying to judge yourself too much. And just do your best.
Posted by Tamar on May 16, 2005, at 14:37:15
In reply to i overestimated my worth, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 13:23:02
> I also told my psych my desire to do this for my T (ahem, "ex" T). She seemed touched, said my T would be "dancing in her heart" and she reiterated my T's offer to help me with this IP thing if I wanted to involve her (not sure I do....I do, but, I don't want to bother her either. She's paid her dues with me, maybe best to leave her in peace). But then she said that she had lunch with my T on Friday afternoon (which was the last session with my T), and my psych made it sound like my T was fine, that she showed her the gifts I brought her, etc. So, I'm thinking, "Gee, my T doesn't miss me at all. She isn't broken up in the least bit that she'll never see me again. And she must feel okay about everything, so, no need to do anything for her now." Not that I want my T to feel badly, or like she failed me, or anything, but.....Am I the only one of the two of us who thinks the last session wasn't at all what it should have been given the intensity and depth of our work together? Am I the only one who questions what the hell the past couple of years with her have been *for* other than to make everything worse for me emotionally? Am I the only one who deeply misses the other?Well if your T would be 'dancing in her heart' at the prospect of your taking this action, then she obviously cares about you. And she showed the psych the gifts you gave her, so she must value them.
Did she say anything to you about how she felt about the fact that your work together was ending? I'm sure after all this time she will miss you.
And I'm glad you found the cat toy.
Keep exercising that inner strength.
Tamar
Posted by JenStar on May 16, 2005, at 15:29:12
In reply to i failed her, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 8:18:14
shrinking violet,
you didn't fail her! It was never your job or your obligation to make HER life different or most successful. YOur only obligation in therapy is to yourself, and her job is to help you.If things didn't work out between you two, that is not your fault alone, it's just an issue of chemistry together.
Are you really worried that you failed yourself, somehow? You're the more important one in the You/T relationship. Maybe you're projecting your feelings onto her b/c it's too painful to face the fact that you didn't accomplish something for yourself that you wanted to? (<--- amateur armchair analysis...feel free to ignore!)
JenStar
Posted by rubenstein on May 16, 2005, at 16:23:38
In reply to i failed her, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 8:18:14
I am so sorry for your pain, it is so hard to be in therapy sometimes. Please take care of yourself.
Hugs
rubenstein
Posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 16:33:02
In reply to i overestimated my worth, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 13:23:02
It seems like people who care about you and want the best for you think this is a good idea.
That should be a good indication that whatever your immediate motivations, it's a good plan in general.
Posted by antigua on May 17, 2005, at 12:50:50
In reply to i failed her, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 8:18:14
I'm really sorry you are feeling this way. Just a thought--can you get someone else to make that call for you and work out the details? Sometimes I'm so paralyzed I can't do things for myself, and making phone calls is at the top of my list.
It sounds like your T does care, but you are hurting so much right now maybe it's not as clear. I see it in what you write about her. If you feel in real trouble, reach out to her again, if not only to ask for advice.
You're facing so many changes at once (school and T), so try to be good to yourself. It's very stressful and I know it hurts.
I know I'm coming from out of the blue, but I've been reading.
take care,
antigua
Posted by Shortelise on May 17, 2005, at 13:36:13
In reply to i failed her, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 8:18:14
Do you notice that your T had lunch with your psych on the last day you saw her? That seems an indication that she does care, and cares a lot, that she needed some support herself.
Please do what is best for you, Violet. Keep safe.
(((sv)))
ShortE
Posted by Poet on May 17, 2005, at 18:57:16
In reply to i overestimated my worth, posted by shrinking violet on May 16, 2005, at 13:23:02
Hi SV,
I'm no expert on self worth, but maybe that you aren't giving up on trying to help yourself is a little teeny bit of self worth. It's deeply buried, but it's there.
Mine's deeply buried, too. Maybe we can find some magic shovels, make that an earth mover in my case and find where ours are.
Your T does care about you- your psych confirmed it. The hardest thing about being cared about is to care about yourself enough to believe everyone else. I know, that's a tough one for me.
Keep trying, keep going. You can get through this. We're here for support.
Poet
Posted by shrinking violet on May 17, 2005, at 19:41:10
In reply to I Don't Think So..., posted by Poet on May 17, 2005, at 18:57:16
Thank you everyone. I wish I had the energy to respond to everyone individually, but right now I don't, I'm sorry.
I really need my T right now. I can't do this without her, it's all too much, I don't know which way to turn. I need to know she's there, I need her to be able to reassure me and ground me, I need her to sit with me and tell me it's okay. I want to contact her so badly and beg her to please help me, please. Which is something I was never able to ask her before, when I should have. And now....maybe it's too late.
And it isn't fair. This is all happening at once...the changes, the losses, the decisions.....and on top of losing my T, having it end the way it did with her, feeling like there are so many things still unresolved and up in the air, and being cut off from her after almost 2 years of being in constant contact and having her there.....it's too much. I can't handle it. I feel like I'm coming apart.
A very sad and alone and unsure,
sv
Posted by Poet on May 17, 2005, at 21:43:05
In reply to i need her right now, posted by shrinking violet on May 17, 2005, at 19:41:10
Posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2005, at 14:10:48
In reply to i need her right now, posted by shrinking violet on May 17, 2005, at 19:41:10
I'm sorry....I feel like I'm beating a dead fish with this post. I hate to sound so whiny and needy.
I ended up leaving a desperate voicemail on my T's office phone late last night.
She called this morning, thankfully, but.....She sounds different. She's pulled everything right back in, it's almost as if she doesn't know me, or the past 2 years have been erased from her mind.
How do they do that?
How CAN they do that?I guess she doesn't realize how traumatizing and devastating this is for me.
Or maybe it doesn't matter.
Or maybe it's my fault, that *I* should handle it better, and if I can't, it's my problem.I hate therapy.
I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous. I think if someone were to really study it, they would find it does more harm than good. I don't think true therapy is possible between humans.How can she just cut me off like this, leave me dangling like a dead fish on a lure?
I'm supposed to call the treatment center, then call her back. But I'm afraid to.....What if she says, "Ok, good, well, goodbye."
I couldn't take that again.
:-(
Posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2005, at 14:12:19
In reply to We're not your T, but we're here ((((((((SV))))))) (nm) » shrinking violet, posted by Poet on May 17, 2005, at 21:43:05
Posted by pinkeye on May 18, 2005, at 14:19:45
In reply to i called, she's different, posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2005, at 14:10:48
SV,
You are not rambling. It is very very understandable what you are going through.And every one of us hate it when therapists pull back all of a sudden. I also hated it very much.
I felt the same thing - how can a person throw me out of his life one day just like an object.
I wish I can go and change your therapist not to do it to you. I hate it when they do it.
But unfortunately, it is not in your control. She must have her reasons, as my T must have had his reasons. I try to look for all the good things he has done for me in the past, and not hold this mistake against him. But I also think he did a huge mistake in my termination. And I think your T did too. I am sorry you are so hurt. Post here as much as you want. WE will help you get thorugh this.
Posted by annierose on May 18, 2005, at 15:40:26
In reply to i called, she's different, posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2005, at 14:10:48
SV-
Sorry this has been so upsetting to you. I think your T does not know how to help you. It's not that she doesn't care. You would probably find it very helpful to process this termination with someone.
How did the conversation with her go? What did she say? Did she offer you any support?
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2005, at 18:58:47
In reply to i called, she's different, posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2005, at 14:10:48
> How do they do that?
> How CAN they do that?I don't know. I had an entire emergency therapy session on that topic today. How can leavers DO that? I never leave. Why do other people leave?
IT SUCKS!!!!!!!
I HATE people who leave and then make it sound as if leaving is ok. It's not ok.
Rail, rail, rail away!
(((((shrinking violet)))))
(Sorry if my own stuff got mixed in there...)
Posted by Daisym on May 18, 2005, at 19:40:53
In reply to Re: i called, she's different, posted by Dinah on May 18, 2005, at 18:58:47
Must be the day for emergency sessions - and tears about loss.
BUT -- he made me believe today that he REALLY cares and this is a REAL relationship, and that when a client terminates, it is bittersweet for him in most cases. He pointed out to me that he gets left tons more than he ever (EVER - almost never!) "leaves" a client. He said it is hard from his vantage point to not know how the stories end or to know they ended tragically.
But I must agree with SV that UNIVERSITY therapy seems like it might be more harmful than helpful except for short term, CBT type stuff. I mean, it ends after the semester ends, there are long summer breaks, etc. I know it is free, but the trade off doesn't seem to balance.
Please take into account that I'm having huge separation anxiety issues today...
Posted by Dinah on May 18, 2005, at 19:58:23
In reply to Re: i called, she's different » Dinah, posted by Daisym on May 18, 2005, at 19:40:53
Our therapists have the same attitude about that. My therapist says that he has only terminated a client against his/her will once, and that only after repeated warnings about boundaries. And that he has absolutely no intention of doing it with me, and that he knows how harmful it would be to me.
I have to agree about strictly time limited therapy with no contact afterwards. I think students (or clients) should be carefully evaluated before that sort of arrangement is considered. And termination should be part of the treatment from day 1.
But I would have probably seemed an ideal candidate for time limited CBT. So maybe it's never a good idea to have that written in stone.
You had an emergency session about abandonment too? Mine was mainly about my Dad, but it spilled over into all abandonment.
This is the end of the thread.
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