![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by agencypanic on May 30, 2003, at 16:08:49
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by stjames on May 30, 2003, at 11:45:50
Thanks for this thread. I am also obsessed with finding the proper label, something a former psychologist of mine couldn't really
understand. I'm currently on pyschiatrist #4, soon to be on #5, and each one has given me a different label from the DSM. My quest for the proper label goes so far as owning a copy of said manual
and often I think that I've read it as closely as have the pychiatrists I've seen. Currently my 'preliminary diagnosis' is schizoaffective disorder and I'll take that label and run with it for a while.
Labels allow me to start the search for data that's useful to me as one who suffers from x. I look for books about it, search the net for relevent information, and maybe most of all try to find others who suffer from the same
malady so that I can feel less isolated and alone. I have to admit that there's more than an element of 'self-absorbtion' in this: When I'm depressed and going through a difficult period, such as now, I look for bits of
information that help explain me to myself as well as for tools to help me out of my predicament. I remember asking my psychologist at the time what it was that I was supposed to have? Was I 'paranoid'? He asked me in return WHY I needed to know, which only
fuelled my paranoia, making me think that everyone but me knew what was wrong with me. It was probably then that I bought a copy of the DSM4 and started reading it. Now sometimes I think that it can be read and used as another form of the I Ching, each day yielding little labels with which I can explain myself.
Sorry for all this 'babble' in this post, just should have said that your message had struck a chord in me. Thanks again for the thread.
Posted by noa on May 30, 2003, at 19:30:39
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by stjames on May 30, 2003, at 11:45:50
>>For me, I love the NOS catagory. That is, as long
as the treatment is working. Is yours ?I agree. I'd add the question, 'would a different/new label guide treatment in a different way?'
And besides, the labels are always somewhat in flux.
I think that in many instances good diagnosis is really important because it can help to guide treatment decisions.
But sometimes, this kind of quest for a label resonates with me as that universal human search--for meaning, for the answer, for wholeness, for peace. And alas, I beleive then it is that unreachable star. We are destined to search but also to accept that we may not find the absolute that we yearn for.
Posted by fallsfall on May 30, 2003, at 20:54:14
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by noa on May 30, 2003, at 19:30:39
My search for the right label allowed me to do research (like agencypanic) and try to understand what was going on. It lets me try to work on things myself. This makes me feel like I'm "doing something". However, at this moment, it is unclear that my treatment is helping, so maybe having a label isn't so helpful after all. But I do feel more comfortable when I have a label that I can believe in.
Posted by Dinah on May 31, 2003, at 9:18:06
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by stjames on May 30, 2003, at 11:45:50
> For me, I love the NOS catagory. That is, as long
> as the treatment is working. Is yours ?I was going to answer your post with a glib response of how would I know, if I don't know what's wrong with me.
But then I realized I had my answer to your question. If I thought the treatment was working sufficiently, I wouldn't be so obsessed with finding a label, would I? A sobering realization to a sobering question. Thank you.
I think I'll sit down today and compare my many improvements to the areas that haven't improved much or have even gotten worse.
And yes, I suppose you're right. Given the state of the DSM, NOS is probably the finest they have to offer. :)
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by deirdrehbrt on May 31, 2003, at 13:28:43
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label? » stjames, posted by Dinah on May 31, 2003, at 9:18:06
This thread reminded me of something that my psychiatrist said during my first hospital stay. I asked him what the diagnosis was, and he merely described the symptoms that we were going to work on. I asked again, and He said something that upset me at the time: that He found that
many people who are given diagnoses try to live up to them. He would rather work on the issues.
I guess that has some benefit, as just about anyone who reads a book on abnormal psychology will identify with at least one disorder.
On the other hand, not knowing what we are working on makes it a lot more difficult. I like to read about people like me; it makes the journey seem shorter, there is company that wouldn't have been there otherwise.
I guess a label is important to me in the sense that I can find help much easier. I think it becomes a problem though when it becomes a badge of honor; a weapon in the competition to be "sicker than you". If we use it to get well, then we're using it as intended, and it is a great tool toward our recovery.
Dee.
Posted by Dinah on May 31, 2003, at 18:20:30
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by deirdrehbrt on May 31, 2003, at 13:28:43
You guys are right. There are a few advantages to an accurate label. Searching for information and finding others who share your problems are definitely two of them. In fact, I did find a new label yesterday, emetophobia, fear of vomit, that gave me tons of information and fellow sufferers to empathize with. There was even a list of strange activities associated with emetophobia that made me laugh. I printed it out and am going to circle the ones that apply to me. (I could add a few too, but won't. They're just too humiliating.)
And since it was on my mind, I went over it yesterday with my therapist. We sat there with the diagnostic guide and decided that no, I wasn't borderline (although I had some features). That maybe I was schizotypal because I had a lot of features, it was just a question of degree as to whether I fit or not. And I was definitely DDNOS. Of course, he isn't really qualified to diagnose and didn't. We just went through all the characteristics.
Now what I really need to do is contact the APA? is it? and tell them off about their lame system. Tell them to come up with a category to fit me IMMEDIATELY. I'm sure I can't be unique.
And you're right Dee, it is possible to try to live up to a diagnosis. I think that shortly after I was diagnosed with OCD (oops, forgot that one. I have OCD.), I had an exacerbation of the symptoms. Or perhaps I was just more aware of them, and labelled things as OCD that I previously thought of as just being me. But that resolved itself soon enough. I now think of my OCD as being under pretty good control.
But I still think that it's largely a matter of a mythical quest.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2003, at 18:31:30
In reply to Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by Dinah on May 30, 2003, at 8:51:34
> A year or two ago, I went through psychological testing to see why on earth I do the things I do. (That was my official reason for being there, when the psychologist asked.) And I found the results less than eye opening or even useful. The MMPI was interesting, and the results pretty accurate, but it didn't tell me much I didn't know.
>
> Moreover, I know that the DSM-IV is sadly lacking. There is so much overlap between diagnostic categories. And some are overly limited, while others are overly inclusive. It's a noble effort but falls far short of the goal. I'll bet it's more than possible to go to several practitioners and get completely different diagnoses.It's probably worse than you even imagined. (I know the first abstract mentions DSM III-R, but diagnostic concordance, in a study using written descriptions submitted to the *authors* of DSM-IV, failed to find inter-rater agreement above 70% on any diagnosis, including Axis 1. In other words, I don't think things have got that much better.)
Psychopathology 1994;27(6):312-20
Comparison of a diagnostic checklist with a structured interview for the assessment of DSM-III-R and ICD-10 personality disorders.
Bronisch T, Mombour W.
Department of Psychiatry, Clinical Institute, Max Planck Institute, Munich, FRG.
The International Diagnostic Checklists for the assessment of the DSM-III-R and ICD-10 personality disorders (IDCL-P) were compared with a structured interview, the International Personality Disorder Examination (IPDE), using a balanced test-retest design with forty psychiatric inpatients. The results, using pairwise kappa for the calculation of agreement, were as follows: any personality disorder versus no personality disorder 0.52 for DSM-III-R diagnoses and 0.75 for ICD-10 diagnoses. The range for the single personality disorders diagnosed at least five times was from -0.07 to 0.71 for DSM-III-R diagnoses and from 0.38 to 0.68 for ICD-10 diagnoses. Only for DSM-III-R diagnoses do figures exist from three other studies comparing two structured interviews with each other. The results of all four studies suggest that 60% of the variance in personality disorder diagnoses represents variance not attributable to the patients, which is scientifically unacceptable.
Compr Psychiatry 2002 Jul-Aug;43(4):285-300
Evaluation of DSM-IV personality disorder criteria as assessed by the structured clinical interview for DSM-IV personality disorders.Farmer RF, Chapman AL.
Department of Psychology, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID, USA.
The primary objective of this research was to investigate the psychometric and diagnostic efficiency properties of DSM-IV personality disorder (PD) criteria as assessed by the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV Personality Disorders (SCID-II). Logistic regression analyses were also employed to identify discriminating and nondiscriminating diagnostic criteria within specific PD categories. Results based on a community sample of 149 psychotropic medication-free persons, 58% of whom had at least one PD as determined from the SCID-II, suggest problems with the assessment and/or conceptualization of some PD categories, most notably obsessive-compulsive PD. For many PD concepts, diagnostic criteria were identified that either detracted from the overall internal consistency and diagnostic efficiency of their associated PD criteria set or failed to uniquely discriminate individuals with specific PDs from those without. Most of these findings cannot be clearly attributed to limitations associated with the method used to assess PD criteria.
J Pers Assess 1996 Jun;66(3):569-82
Comparative validity of MMPI-2 and MCMI-II personality disorder classifications.
Wise EA.
Mental Health Resources, Memphis, Tennessee, USA.
Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory-2 (MMPI-2) overlapping and nonoverlapping scales were demonstrated to perform comparably to their original MMPI forms. They were then evaluated for convergent and discriminant validity with the Million Clinical Multiaxial Inventory-II (MCMI-II) personality disorder scales. The MMPI-2 and MCMI-II personality disorder scales demonstrated convergent and discriminant coefficients similar to their original forms. However, the MMPI-2 personality scales classified significantly more of the sample as Dramatic, whereas the MCMI-II diagnosed more of the sample as Anxious. Furthermore, single-scale and 2-point code type classification rates were quite low, indicating that at the level of the individual, the personality disorder scales are not measuring comparable constructs. Hence, each instrument is providing similar and unique information, justifying their continued use together for the purpose of diagnosing personality disorders.
> If I had a label that I could agree with, would it help me understand myself? Would it help me find a solution for living a steadier life? Or is it just the quest for the mythical answer to life...I think the key component of your statement, above, is the question of your agreeing with the label, whatever it might be.
Given the standard medical diagnostic/treatment model, that flows: sx --> dx --> tx --> px
(symptoms to diagnosis to treatment to prognosis), there is a disconnect between symptom and treatment. In other words, the doctor treats the diagnosis more than he does the symptoms presented to him. With that sort of bias, I guess it makes sense that you might do the same sort of thinking.Lar
Posted by Dinah on May 31, 2003, at 23:51:48
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label? » Dinah, posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2003, at 18:31:30
It's a sorry state of affairs, isn't it? And the new DSM V is due out in 2010, the political maneuvering has already begun, and I don't expect much better than the IV version. Sigh.
At the very very least, they should try to correlate the "personality disorders" with the biological underpinnings that most of them probably have. Axis II should be hmmmm.... a manifestation of Axis I? whenever possible. I don't know if I'm expressing it well, but Axis II disorders ought to come with a list of Axis I disorders to rule out. Borderline personality with some form of affective instability. Avoidant with an anxiety disorder. Schizoid and schizotypal with Asperger's or some related neurological condition. That would take some of the stigma away from personality "disorders", and suggest additional biological treatments, as well as therapy treatments.
So maybe if they used the axis system to say something like "BPII with borderline coping mechanisms" "Sensory Integration neurological deficits with borderline coping mechanisms" "Post Traumatic Stress disorder with antisocial coping mechanisms" "Generalized Anxiety Disorder with avoidant coping mechanisms" "Generalized Anxiety Disorder with obssessive compulsive coping mechanisms"
I don't know if I'm expressing the idea well. It's in my head, but I'm not sure if it's making it out in a coherent manner.
Posted by stjames on June 1, 2003, at 3:35:06
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label? » stjames, posted by Dinah on May 31, 2003, at 9:18:06
>> But then I realized I had my answer to your question. If I thought the treatment was working sufficiently, I wouldn't be so obsessed with finding a label, would I? A sobering realization to a sobering question. Thank you.
Actually, I thought you were doing OK. Opps !
You see, i find a lot of folks want to deny their illness. They want proof they are X, and if there is not a hard test, this just supports the process of denial.
Like in a post " I cry all the time, sleep all the time, and don't wash or leave the house. I don't see that I have depression and I don't see how the doc could know I have depression"
We do get these, you know.Clearly you are not playing these games. But I really thought you were doing OK. Redefining
Dx is a good idea if you are not. So my misunderstanding made me think "why mess with the Dx if it is working".
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2003, at 9:57:36
In reply to Re: DSM and labels » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on May 31, 2003, at 23:51:48
> It's a sorry state of affairs, isn't it? And the new DSM V is due out in 2010, the political maneuvering has already begun, and I don't expect much better than the IV version. Sigh.
>
> At the very very least, they should try to correlate the "personality disorders" with the biological underpinnings that most of them probably have. Axis II should be hmmmm.... a manifestation of Axis I? whenever possible. I don't know if I'm expressing it well, but Axis II disorders ought to come with a list of Axis I disorders to rule out. Borderline personality with some form of affective instability. Avoidant with an anxiety disorder. Schizoid and schizotypal with Asperger's or some related neurological condition. That would take some of the stigma away from personality "disorders", and suggest additional biological treatments, as well as therapy treatments.
>
> So maybe if they used the axis system to say something like "BPII with borderline coping mechanisms" "Sensory Integration neurological deficits with borderline coping mechanisms" "Post Traumatic Stress disorder with antisocial coping mechanisms" "Generalized Anxiety Disorder with avoidant coping mechanisms" "Generalized Anxiety Disorder with obssessive compulsive coping mechanisms"
>
> I don't know if I'm expressing the idea well. It's in my head, but I'm not sure if it's making it out in a coherent manner.I think you've done well expressing your ideas.
The current philosophy of diagnosis is that organic brain disease is Axis I, which is the first focus of the diagnostician in interpreting symptoms/behaviour. When that fails, or if it's apparent there's more to consider, you go to Axis II. The problem is that you can certainly get "false negatives" with respect to organic brain disease; i.e. there really is a pathology of some sort, but you erroneously exclude that concept from consideration.
The reason for that failing lies in the symptom checklists. Schizotypal disorder is "organic" under ICD-10, but PD under DSM-IV. Is European schizotypy different from the American form? Not.
The whole format, e.g. "four of these ten symptoms", "persisting for greater than two weeks", and so on, presumes that people are going to fit reasonably well into these "constructed pigeonholes" of conceptualization. What do you do with those who straddle these arbitrary definitions? Mother Nature doesn't draw lines.
If you think about it, the fact that drugs are even tried as therapy for personality disorders suggests that doctors believe that there are biological underpinnings.
Lar
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 11, 2003, at 21:58:05
In reply to Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by Dinah on May 30, 2003, at 8:51:34
i understand. yesterday i went to the pdoc, and he said that he's tentatively dxing me with OCD. i was taken aback, as i _did_ used to have ocd symptoms before my thyroid treatment that abated with treatment THREE years ago. i no longer have 'rituals', and while 'obsessive,' i'm more in the realm of normal (severe) anxiety.
i asked why the ocd dx, and he said because of what was in my history, not the present day. he also said that it was tentative.
it just really bothered me because my life was really horrid when i had ocd and a long-time partner left me over it. this happened in conjunction with several other bad things (got hit by a car,etc.) that further heightened my anxiety at the time. it was overall a nightmarish year that i would rather not repeat. just the label can conjure all that up for me. should i let the pdoc know this?
* * *
your case also reminds me of before i was dx'd with complicated migraines. i had spells of confusion and feeling lost, but no explanation for it. so many tests were done. i knew it wasn't epilepsy; i knew it wasn't a stroke; i knew it wasn't m.s. like DID, on some level it's a dx of exclusion. i knew it wasn't a lot of things. but until i knew what it _was_, there was really no knowing how to treat it. maybe you just want to know what beast you're dealing with.
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2003, at 9:31:01
In reply to obsessed? what makes you say 'obsessed'? » Dinah, posted by bookgurl99 on June 11, 2003, at 21:58:05
I think it's wonderful you were able to overcome your OCD. It was related to your thyroid? That's interesting.
Yeah, it's hard to be neither fish nor fowl. I'm not really sure where I should be going with treatment, and that makes it rough to assess my progress.
Posted by NThompson on June 17, 2003, at 18:50:34
In reply to Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by Dinah on May 30, 2003, at 8:51:34
Obsessing with labels in a natural part of our culture. The western culture has been made to believe that everything we do, say, own/have needs to have a label. In high school there are labels for the different clicks, rockers, stoners, jocks, preppies and the geeks. Why? Because that is how we have been taught. People would rather shop and Macy's or Saks Fifth Ave. than K-mart. Why because the merchandise is cheaper at Kmart so that must put you in a labeled class. If you shop at K-mart obviously you must not have the money to shop at Saks or Macy's(even if you really like shopping at Kmart or just like to SAVE money). Hence, White collar, Blue collar and no collar. Upper class, Middle class and Lower class. Would you like the first class flight or the coach. First class you get champaigne and warmed towels with tons of room to move and breathe, however on coach, you're lucky to even get a bag of nuts. Labels are everything in our society. So being obsessed with them isn't being obsessed. It's being normal. As far as what people label you, that shouldn't matter. Why should someone else tell you what kind of person you are??? Aren't we all here getting support and help to make US feel better? I am. I am depressed, not weird or strange. I am getting help for MYSELF to make ME feel better. I'm not doing this for anyone. I don't care what people label me as. What is "Normal" anyway? Who made that standard? What habbits or disfunctions did they have! If no two people are alike, then what the hell is this "Normal" crap anyway right?! So don't feel bad about obsessing with labels because that is how we were raised. And as far as people labeling you, who cares! How do you feel about yourself? All you need to worry about is that you feel great about you, no matter what pill or therapy you take to achieve that. No test can make you feel good about yourself. There is a reason why you were put on this earth...maybe it was for the simple fact that someone was feeling down and happened to see you and you smiled at this total stranger and said hi. That made their day! We don't always know why we are here but there are reasons why. My name in Swahili means "a purpose". I'm realizing that I have a purpose for being here, even if I haven't found a cure for cancer or save peoples lives everyday. But I give blood, tell my family that I love them, kiss my kids boo-boos when they are hurt, give a couple of bucks to the homeless when I can. I've raised money for the American Cancer Society and did the relay for life. And most of all, I try my best to be the best mother, wife, friend, daughter, granddaughter, niece, sister and sister inlaw that I can be so that I am happy with ME. Be yourself because you are wonderful and you have a purpose for being here. Your already doing good for others being on this website. You're GIVING and getting support to and from others. Be proud of YOURSELF! Smile in the mirror, it will be beautiful.
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2003, at 18:52:56
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label? » Dinah, posted by NThompson on June 17, 2003, at 18:50:34
Thank you. :) And you're right and I know it.
It's just that something seems so terribly wrong sometimes and I want to know why. It shouldn't be all that hard to find out why....
Posted by justyourlaugh on June 19, 2003, at 23:00:25
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label? » NThompson, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2003, at 18:52:56
d...
i got a dx today......
i cried for hours...
among all the mental crap...now i find ill need meds all my life...
:(
but i want to live in the clouds
j
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2003, at 4:14:24
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by justyourlaugh on June 19, 2003, at 23:00:25
I'm sorry, JYL. Psych meds are not what they should be, and I can understand not wanting to be on them. But do you think the dx will help you in any way? I know you get so depressed at times. Will the meds help that?
(((JYL)))
Posted by noa on June 20, 2003, at 19:56:02
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label?, posted by justyourlaugh on June 19, 2003, at 23:00:25
I'll need meds all my life too, unless they come up with something better. Sigh. You're not alone.
Posted by NThompson on June 24, 2003, at 19:32:03
In reply to Re: Why am I so obsessed with a label? » NThompson, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2003, at 18:52:56
Hi there all. I just want to say that all of you are very strong people. You definately aren't alone. WE are all here for a reason. We all feel the same. If we didn't, there wouldn't be websites like this!
JYL - I feel you. I hate it when I get so depressed that I just want to curl up in a dark place, turn off all the lights, phones, lock all the doors and pretend that I am off dreaming somewhere else. In a place that is so wonderful and airy. Then a couple of minutes go by and I see the dark place in my mind that won't go away. I hated feeling that way. So much that I tried to commit suicide at the beginning of this month. The dark place took over. I have no idea why I feel this way, however, I do want to feel better.
I don't know if I will ever be off the meds. All I know is that I am starting to feel better. I want to see my children grow-up, be there when they need me. I love them and my family, so I am working on myself to get better. If that means meds all my life, then that is a small price to pay to have a lifeful of memories. Today after I dropped my daughter off at school, I went for a small drive. I rolled all of the windows down and let the fresh air blow around me. I breathed in very deeply and though how beautiful the sky and trees where. Then I thought, I can beat this. I will feel better. I am worth being here in this world. Then I thought, I will look in the mirror again and recognize the person starring back at me. I will do that, that is the person I love. I will find her again! I just have to search harder.
So what I am saying is please, don't think you want to be anywhere but here. We all want you here. And as far as meds, be happy that we have them. Could you imagine going through this a hundred years ago and before? They would either have ended up dead of suicide or in an asylum. Just because they where depressed, not crazy! So I am wanting to feel better and if I have to take happy pills all my life to do so, then I do so, and so can you.
Let me know how you are doing? I am here if any of you need me. I hate that dark place too.
NThompson
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2003, at 22:14:45
In reply to For Dinah, Justyourlaugh and noa, posted by NThompson on June 24, 2003, at 19:32:03
I'm sorry you found yourself in such a dark place. But it sounds as if it was one of those pivotal moments in life for you?
I think it's so great that you're able to appreciate beauty, and decide to do the hard work of living. Kids are a great motivator aren't they?
I figure I'll be on pills for the rest of my life too. Every time I stop, I'm reminded why I'm on them. My little combo has managed so far to keep a good enough net below me when I plummet without dampening my better moods too much.
Bless those scientists.
Posted by NThompson on June 25, 2003, at 1:15:52
In reply to Re: For Dinah, Justyourlaugh and noa » NThompson, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2003, at 22:14:45
Dinah,
You are absolutely right. Kids are a great motivator. In fact it was my 6 year old daughter who saved my life. Even though she doesn't know it. I was taking the pills one after another, thinking how I was such a horrible mom and wife and I was so not able to handle day to day events and I was hiding everything. I didn't realized how many pills I had taken, I was sort of in a trance. I found out I had taken the equivelant to 28 pills. My daughter walked into the living room (my two were in the bedroom playing) and she said, "Mom I'm getting a drink" and then yelled, "Mom, I love you!" And that is when I realized what I was doing and I called the Crisis who then called my husband, the police and the ambulance. I then went to the hospital and the rest is history...
As for a lease on life. It took me almost loosing my life to realize that I want it. I just have to learn how to live without the depression.
I still have boughts with it, but I do believe the meds are starting to help a little. I can walk out front a not freak out or answer the phone when I don't know who is calling and even telling the person I am me when they ask for me and I don't know the voice. I almost lost everything due to depression. I mean the house the truck, electricity, phone, credit rating... you get the picture. My house was actually in forclosure.. do you believe that! I hid anything that came in the mail without opening it. I would tell my husband that eveything was paid when it wasn't. I would say okay today is the 27th, the mortgage has to be paid by the 1st. The first would come and go, it would be the 22nd and I wouldn't remember when or where the month went. I just couldn't function and nobody knew. I hid that too. From my husband, my family, and my friends. I was all smiles and giggles when everyone was around. The perfect little wife and wonderful friend who never got mad at anyone or judged them. Which I wouldn't even if I wasn't depressed, God knows I'm not perfect! So I can't in all honesty judge anyone else. Everything was an act. I was so tired of it too. Finally, I broke. And you want to hear the damndest thing about it... my husband is still with me. He loves me so much that he is standing by me to get me the help I need to feel better. I feel so lucky that I have such a great husband! Everything is out on the table now. He knows exactly what is going on in our lives. And in the checkbook! And I talk to him about how I feel. Good days and the bad. He will actually call me from work just to see if I am doing okay. He never did that before. He would call only if he needed something and that was it. But he is really concerned.
So as long as the meds work, I will take them. I really want to grow old with my husband. We have been married for almost 7 years now and together for 8 and a half years total. I got lucky. I think if we can survive this then we are definately staying together for a long time.So Dinah, what made you realize that you needed help. Or that you had depression. It actually took me going over the deep end to realize it. If you feel comfortable enough telling me, I would love to hear it.
Take care of yourself and I am here for you if you need to talk.
NThompson
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2003, at 5:28:59
In reply to Re: For Dinah, posted by NThompson on June 25, 2003, at 1:15:52
You know, I've never been a huge believer in miracles. But that "I love you" sounds like a serious contender to me.
It must be a terrible relief to have everything out in the open and know that your husband will love you anyway. I've had a similar experience myself recently. I came to terms with my debt, and came clean with my husband and therapist (but not my parents, good heavens no). I don't look forward to bearing the consequences of my prior actions. (Is there any sound sadder than a credit card snipping in half?) But there is some relief in not having to be secretive.
I've had periods of clinical depression, three altogether I think. But it was anxiety that drove me to seek help. Obsessive compulsive disorder was my first diagnosis.
I'm so glad that you decided to seek life after your brush with death. It sounds like you've got a lot to live for.
Dinah
Posted by NThompson on June 25, 2003, at 20:06:03
In reply to Re: For Dinah » NThompson, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2003, at 5:28:59
Dinah,
I haven't been diagnosed with OCD, but I pick at myself all the time. This will sound gross, but I will pick at zits, blemishes, skin peeling from a sunburn and anything else I can find to pick at. I will run my fingers over my skin not knowing I am doing it and will actually search for something to pick.So, What OCD do you have? I have always considered mine as a "nervous habbit" and anxiety. Like I said I haven't been diagnosed, however, I can't stop doing it. OBSESSIVELY DOING IT.
Yes, there is nothing sadder than the sound of strong metal sliceing into thin plastic. You could do what I did! I just didn't pay anything important and when out looking for comfort. Something to make me feel better. Food (dining and grocery store), I have a Costco and Sam's Club card, DVD movies, going out drinking with friends, things for the kids, gifts for my husband and any other little knick-knacks I could find that made me feel good at the time. Didn't buy clothes though! I hate looking in the mirror, so that sucked. It made me even more depressed. So I stopped looking for clothes. And after that great budget plan, you can receive a ton of notices saying that you are in foreclosure, your truck is being repoed, the IRS is going to come after you if you don't send taxes in from 2001, and your water, electricity and cable are all being turned off! Oh, lets not forget that the garbage company is putting a lien against your house for an unpaid account!! And still after looking at this, you buy more movies to escape you crappy life that you just created for yourself, wishing to escape in any way possible and realizing that everything you do turns crappy. Everything from your weight to how lazy you are to how you can't even get up and clean the house! How you cry for absolutely no reason at all. Knowing you can't answer the phone because your afraid to talk to other people and just want to stay inside where you feel safe. And how you wish that just once you can take one breathe of air not feeling guilty about living.
I'm sorry I guess I'm not feeling all that well today. I think I'm gonna go now, sorry Dinah.
NThompson
Posted by noa on June 25, 2003, at 20:50:47
In reply to Re: For Dinah » Dinah, posted by NThompson on June 25, 2003, at 20:06:03
I have the skin thing too. I don't know if it is OCD for me, or kind of a "tic" like thing, although these often occur together anyway. My pdocs don't seem to know how to address it.
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2003, at 2:12:50
In reply to Re: For Dinah » Dinah, posted by NThompson on June 25, 2003, at 20:06:03
Sorry you're not feeling well. :( I guess the bad days creep in there once in a while. But isn't it good to have it out in the open? I have to admit that that is good. I didn't like keeping secrets from my very sweet husband.
I'm guessing that you guys have sought out the relevant legal/debt counseling advice? The results may not be pretty and I'm not going to be unrealistically rosy, but you can recover from this. It's not the end of the world, no matter how much it seems like it. And I can't believe I'm saying that. Because it feels like the end of the world. But just too many people go through it, and get past it, for it to be as hopeless as it seems right now.
Keep your eyes on that track to recovery. Get some good solid professional advice. And trust your husband, who sounds like a peach. And now I'm through giving unrequested advice.
I hope you feel better soon.
Posted by NThompson on June 27, 2003, at 12:41:34
In reply to Re: For Dinah » NThompson, posted by Dinah on June 26, 2003, at 2:12:50
Hi there you guys,
As far as unrequested advice, I think that's a little bit wrong. I don't think anyone would be here if they didn't want advice, especially from people who DO understand you. So, thank you.
Bad days..ummm... I hate those little things. The problem is that I don't know if it is depression or straight out old fashion guilt! I guess both, getting depressed from the guilt. I feel as those I really let my husband down. Of course in the financial department but also in the partners for life, for better or worst...thing. I wasn't communicating with him. I was shuting him out and giving up. I didn't honor the "for better or worst" by trying to commit suicide. Then he jumps in like superman and in one big swoop, takes care of everything before I even get home from the hospital and crisis center! It's like he snapped his fingers and everything I have been worried and scared about for the past few years, especially the last 7 months) he got rid of in 10 minutes!!!!!! Not only did he honor the for better or worst but he honored the for richer and for poorer! And all he did was reach out to family and they fixed everything. 10 minutes, one phone call. Something I couldn't do. I almost gave my life up for absolutely nothing! NOTHING! What does that say about the person I am???? Weak, very. So I feel guilty about not keeping my promises and vows to him. Now, I have never been unfaithful to him. And vise versa. I just wish I would have been able to a least talk to him. I don't know why I thought I couldn't. He's NEVER been abusive in any way. And as you can see by the way he stayed with me that he really does love me. So I don't know what my problem is/was.
Anyway, I feel like I can say anything here and that you all are wonderful friends that I have known for years. Isn't that funny. I don't know if it is the whole, we aren't in person or just the fact that we are all in some way on the same ship. But I like being able to talk to you all and get straight, truthful answers and ADVICE.
I am feeling better today though. I am even smiling and laughing. Thank you for being here for me. Thank you for being you.
Take care of you,
NThompson
This is the end of the thread.
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