![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by lucie lu on December 22, 2008, at 18:24:36
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase, posted by BayLeaf on December 22, 2008, at 18:00:25
Bay,
Quite honestly I haven't noticed "so many people giving up on Babble," at least on the psych board. Maybe this is happening on other boards? On the psych board, the general population is pretty constant, some people drifting on or off at any given time according to their own needs. But most return, and are welcomed, when the time is right for them again. There has not been any mass exodus, or even a minor one, on the psych board. People usually stay and try to talk differences out. Or sit it out until they feel ready to post again. Maybe this constancy on the psych board is worth emulating on other boards? From what I've been hearing, the psych board really may be different from the other boards in some pretty fundamental ways.
Lucie
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 22, 2008, at 18:30:48
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase » BayLeaf, posted by lucie lu on December 22, 2008, at 18:24:36
> Bay,
>
> Quite honestly I haven't noticed "so many people giving up on Babble," at least on the psych board. Maybe this is happening on other boards? On the psych board, the general population is pretty constant, some people drifting on or off at any given time according to their own needs. But most return, and are welcomed, when the time is right for them again. There has not been any mass exodus, or even a minor one, on the psych board. People usually stay and try to talk differences out. Or sit it out until they feel ready to post again. Maybe this constancy on the psych board is worth emulating on other boards? From what I've been hearing, the psych board really may be different from the other boards in some pretty fundamental ways.
>
> LucieI know of 3 people who have jumped ship from boards other than Psych in the last 2 weeks. That's a pretty tight ship, and people get solid support there.
But that's what I know personally. People don't always announce their departure.pc
Posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 18:48:43
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase » Deputy Dinah, posted by BayLeaf on December 22, 2008, at 18:23:20
It is a valid question when to let things go and when not to.
In general, we like to let things go. We'd rather people work things out. We wait and see what happens. Often people do. We weren't necessarily sure how it would work when Dr. Bob instituted the policy, but I think for the most part it's worked out fine.
On the other hand, I think sometimes it backfires.
Also it's my experience that when lots of people are feeling hurt, small things matter more than they might at other times. Things that people might shrug off when the seas are calm actually are more of a problem when arousal is already high.
Your experience might be different. But we have to make hard calls and we do our best to make them as well as we can, with the wellbeing of the board as our main goal.
I hope more than anyone that Psychology will soon be self regulating again. The board in general does a terrific job of doing without any Admin intervention at all. Perhaps because of that, Admin might wait a bit too long before intervening at times.
It's a balancing act. I used to yell at Dr. Bob as much as anyone about his actions. But now I'm under the same pressures he was under, I understand a bit better how many things have to be considered. Although I still yell at him...
My understanding is that you don't think Admin is balancing things well right now. I hope you also understand that we're doing our best, and that we have the wellbeing of all Babblers at heart.
Posted by BayLeaf on December 22, 2008, at 18:52:43
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase » BayLeaf, posted by lucie lu on December 22, 2008, at 18:24:36
Lucie - You seem to have the impression that I'm new here. I've been around for many years. If you haven't noticed people leaving, we must just know different people.
We used to be able to check Babble Stats to watch the steady decline of posting activity. I don't see that option anymore. Is it still available?
Bay
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 22, 2008, at 18:54:09
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase » lucie lu, posted by Partlycloudy on December 22, 2008, at 18:30:48
I think it isn't just posters that are leaving but one's that have been here for years. I am even suppose to leave as per my T's recommendations. She has tried so hard for me to feel safe in therapy to talk about how I FEEL but yet when I do that on the boards, I run a high risk of getting blocked.
I really don't know how to say what I said in regards to relationships that aren't all one sided, so I guess I will just say sorry for being uncivil and no my comments don't involve anyone at Babble. I don't know how other Babblers think of me and our friendships, but you know I didn't say ALL my relationships are one sided, just that that seems to be a pattern for me that my T see's and has pointed out to me.
I truly don't understand the I statements, at least a lot of it. If I say I like hotdogs but only with everything on them, wouldn't it be uncivil to say regarding Babble's rules? Because wouldn't people that think only mustard should be on hotdogs feel hurt that I don't think the same way? I just don't get it and I mean that sincerely. I have tried and I am no dummy okay, and I have been here for almost 4 years and it just don't completely sink in. I get blatant uncivilness. But the fine line of details I just don't get.
Doesn't it go both ways too? Because I wasn't trying to be uncivil with my post. But now that I have to reword it, won't I feel put down by that? I really just don't understand the rules here, sincerely I don't. Isn't there something to if someone is seeing themselves in a post that talks about people in general, isn't that their perception of themselves?
Let's say for example, my husband is an wife abuser, and my T says I tend to have relationship with men that are unhealthy. Is that uncivil to the men at Babble? or for example I say that I was abused as a child by my parents, and my T says I should not continue the pattern with my kids. Wouldn't that be uncivil to the parents of Babble, some who may be abusing their kids?That is where I don't get it, it seems like it is okay to some things, but not others. Like I can talk about my T being a jerk, but isn't that uncivil to the T's on the boards going by Babble's rules?
Tell ya what I think, I think we should be able to make our own rules on babble and have a vote. Or at least make the rules simple enough for everyone to understand. I have 3.9 GPA, and high IQ, and I don't get all the rules.
Posted by BayLeaf on December 22, 2008, at 19:07:53
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 22, 2008, at 18:54:09
" Isn't there something to if someone is seeing themselves in a post that talks about people in general, isn't that their perception of themselves? "
Excellent point! Yes, I do think that is part of the problem.
And, sometimes people just get their panties all in a twist! :-)
people in general
panties in general
generals in general
Posted by Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 19:18:04
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 22, 2008, at 18:54:09
> I really don't know how to say what I said in regards to relationships that aren't all one sided, so I guess I will just say sorry for being uncivil
Thank you for apologizing and explaining.
Posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 19:20:36
In reply to Thank you » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 19:18:04
Sorry. I forgot to change my login.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 22, 2008, at 19:22:26
In reply to Thank you » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 19:18:04
Thanks for the thanks but I wish you could have told me how to say it but with civilness.
Posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 19:40:10
In reply to Re: Thank you » Dinah, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 22, 2008, at 19:22:26
> Thanks for the thanks but I wish you could have told me how to say it but with civilness.
>
>Some examples might be:
I feel that I have needs that aren't being met at Babble.
or
I feel I need to detach from Babble (or invest less in Babble) in order to feel safe.
Both are statements about yourself, and not about others or the motives of others.
Please Rephrase's are a challenge, I'm afraid. Dr. Bob likes them, and I like them in theory. But they are difficult in practice. If we say something is ok, and thank a poster and move on, what is contained in the post will be considered ok by Babble standards as approved by a deputy. It's not a question of us trying to be picayune. It's more that the nature of the Please Rephrase is difficult.
I'm sorry if this caused you additional distress. I do appreciate your working with us on this.
Posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 19:45:39
In reply to Certainly, I'll do my best, posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 19:40:10
Another example might be
My therapist says that I tend to get in relationships where I try to give and receive support but where my needs are not met. Or where I end up feeling hurt.
Posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 20:03:45
In reply to Certainly, I'll do my best, posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 19:40:10
Another question, as I too find all of this difficult to understand.
If noone notifies the admin, is action still taken, or will it be let go? Cuz it seems to me, if noone is offended it SHOULD be let go cuz obvo there is no offense taken.
Then maybe threads would have the time to resolve.
Sometimes, I know, it sadly just gets ugly, but sometimes things work out.
I agree with what someone said about one of the difficulties in being blocked, is when you are blocked unexpectedly, there is no chance to explain and apologize, and potentially resolve the issue.
Anyhow, my main question here is just whether admin action is purely complaint driven, or sometimes independant?
Also is there some criteria in place? Are we able to be privy to it so that we might have greater understanding?
I think many of us here feel so powerless somehow, esp when we really don't understand....
Thanks.
M
Posted by emme on December 22, 2008, at 20:24:24
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase » lucie lu, posted by Partlycloudy on December 22, 2008, at 18:30:48
I popped in to see what's new and exciting and I see there's quite a discussion going on.
> But that's what I know personally. People don't always announce their departure.
True enough. Or perhaps they don't announce their decision to minimize their participation. I've been a member here for several years and used to post a fair amount. I now only post occasionally and I keep my posts extremely short.
There are several reasons for this. Part of this is feeling less comfortable putting too much of myself out on the internet in general. Part of it is simply having less time to post. And part of it is the way the board has evolved, with complex blocking algorithms and increasingly structured rules and procedures. (I have nothing against the deputies and their dedication to the boards, and I know they are doing their best.)
I still like to post a little when I think I have some input that might be helpful. I just don't feel inclined to be as involved as I once was. I don't think my gradual fading out was necessarily noticed (which is okay). There are probably others out there like me.
emme
Posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 20:42:55
In reply to Admin, posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 20:03:45
and FWIW I have NEVER felt unsupported by babblers. Maybe misunderstood, but never ever unsupported.
Some babblers may choose to take a step away from me which saddens me, cuz it just bout kills me to not be able to support them when I see them hurting, but then what I need to understand(its been explained to me by babblers TY) is that I have to learn to let go. That even when I am trying to be supportive, somehow I can be triggering to others. I need to understand that this is so, even if I do not understand why (though I dearly wish I did). So I goto step back. Which I don't personally find easy, but which I MUST respect. I guess its a good life lesson. I am learning. But ya, its another thing that makes it hard to be here.
(((((ALL Babblers, every one, and lurkers, and MIA babblers too, and Bob, we ALL matter))))
So I guess Babbles not perfect, babblers are not perfect, I know for a fact that I am FAR from perfect(I won't say what we really think of me), and Bob is not perfect either.
But I guess we just goto to try to respect each other no matter what, and try and be supportive as we can, and try and understand that sometime words here fall so short of what we intend them to mean. And that being so, try and trust one another to being best intentioned in our writings.
God I am boring. I go now.
M
Posted by Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 20:54:50
In reply to Admin, posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 20:03:45
I wish there was an easy answer to give you, but there isn't. Context is important.
In general, we don't go looking for problems, and if we see something that concerns us, we generally just keep an eye open. I think you'll see if you look back that we generally PBC before we block, probably more than Dr. Bob did. And you'll probably see that we don't block as much as Dr. Bob did. We'd like posters to work it out themselves if at all possible.
Posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 21:19:00
In reply to Re: Admin » muffled, posted by Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 20:54:50
> I wish there was an easy answer to give you, but there isn't. Context is important.
*Yup context is important, but sometimes impossible to determine w/o asking I guess.
> In general, we don't go looking for problems, and if we see something that concerns us, we generally just keep an eye open. I think you'll see if you look back that we generally PBC before we block, probably more than Dr. Bob did. And you'll probably see that we don't block as much as Dr. Bob did. We'd like posters to work it out themselves if at all possible.*Oh sweet Dinah, I know you don't go looking for problems, why would you, you already plenty busy. I also know that the deps do the best they can, and they work with a difficult administrator...(civil?I dunno, but Bob does already know that I am OK w/him, if he also pisses me off!!kinda gneral already public knowledge...).
I agree and have said so in the past that I prefer the deps actions to Bobs. I find him much more harsh and unexpected.
And I agree that its important to (RECENTLY IMHO) PBC B4 blocking.But what I was really asking is does admin take action even if there is no notifications? I suppose if its very blatant then it would be advisable. But other than that, is it on a case by case basis based on notifications? Cuz if the poster on the receiving end doesn't mind...then why bother? I know I have in the past notified you guys that I am NOT offended by a post in order to not have a PBC happen to someone who I know didn't mean badly to me. That being said, is this ANOTHER useful function of the notification button for you guys? A more positive one?
BTW I am thankful the deps do what they do, I know when you guys started out, this is not what you expected...
There is a reason I am NOT a dep...
I am not as dedicated as you guys to the cause of babble I guess.
So for that, I thank you.
Cuz I think this would be a much wilder place w/o the help of the deps.
Thx again,
M
Posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 21:56:23
In reply to Re: Admin, posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 21:19:00
Again, I'd say there isn't any easy answer. I think in general if there is an isolated flareup between two posters, we certainly are open to the possibility that they would work it out without Admin intervention. In fact, we would prefer it.
I'm at something of a loss to respond. I don't want to give the inaccurate and distressing impression that if someone gets a PBC it means the poster involved reported them to Admin. It isn't true, and I wouldn't want posters looking at each other with undeserved mistrust. Yet it is true that we ask for posters to help with Administration of the site and that we rely on notifications. And that we would like people to work things out themselves if possible.
So really, the only answer I can honestly give is that it depends on a number of factors. People shouldn't conclude that Admin is looking for violations, and people shouldn't conclude that someone asked for Administrative action. The important thing is that Administrative actions are not punishments so much as they are reminders, and that people should notify if they feel that something isn't in accordance with site guidelines, and shouldn't feel guilty about doing so. There are all sorts of poster needs at Babble.
I hope that answers the question, although I realize it isn't very clear.
Posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 22:02:18
In reply to Re: Admin » muffled, posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 21:56:23
oh duh OK, there is so much I miss.
DUH. I tell people IRL I am a walking example of why you shouldn't do drugs.....
I amaze myself with my density at times....
Thx for you patience.
You explained well, just took me a bit to get it....as usu.
:-o
;-)
M
Posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 22:04:05
In reply to Re: Admin » Deputy Dinah, posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 22:02:18
Not at all!
My own head spins at times. :)
Posted by Racer on December 22, 2008, at 23:48:56
In reply to babblers, posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 20:42:55
> So I guess Babbles not perfect, babblers are not perfect,
> But I guess we just goto to try to respect each other no matter what, and try and be supportive as we can, and try and understand that sometime words here fall so short of what we intend them to mean. And that being so, try and trust one another to being best intentioned in our writings.
I think this reminder is perfect. And I think that you are Muffled, someone whose judgment I've come to respect very deeply.
Posted by seldomseen on December 23, 2008, at 6:10:52
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase » Deputy Dinah, posted by BayLeaf on December 22, 2008, at 18:23:20
"So, Bob thinks he can have a psych board full of people in therapy, on meds, with a myriad of Axis I disorders, but they can't get anywhere near expressing their feelings there? Oh, I know the song....sure they can, within the rules. But, not everyone has the ability to walk that VERY FINE line. I barely do on my best day. Frankly, without my glasses, I cant even see that line anymore"
***I come at this from a very different perspective. I think BECAUSE this board is populated with people in therapy, on meds, and with a myriad of Axis I disorders, that Bob, a mental health professional, has set guidelines for posting.
I also maintain that people can express whatever they like here, but sometimes it will require effort and thought. I think all of us are capable of that effort and that thought.
Is there a fine line? I don't know. Sometimes I think I am so used to words as weapons rather than as a means of communication that I don't see that line either.
I'm guess I'm glad that someone can see it.***
Seldom.
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2008, at 9:49:41
In reply to You know what is perfect, though? » muffled, posted by Racer on December 22, 2008, at 23:48:56
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 23, 2008, at 11:50:31
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 22, 2008, at 18:54:09
> Please explain how it is wrong to say that my therapist and I discussed that I should not let people take advantage of me.
>
> And if you ask me if we were talking about Babblers or not, I will tell you that is not important to my story.
>
> BayLeafIt might, however, be important to another Babbler's story. And their stories are important, too.
--
> She has tried so hard for me to feel safe in therapy to talk about how I FEEL but yet when I do that on the boards, I run a high risk of getting blocked.
But this isn't therapy. For one thing, the people you talk about might be listening.
> I truly don't understand the I statements, at least a lot of it. If I say I like hotdogs but only with everything on them, wouldn't it be uncivil to say regarding Babble's rules? Because wouldn't people that think only mustard should be on hotdogs feel hurt that I don't think the same way? I just don't get it and I mean that sincerely.
On Politics, it's considered civil to be pro-Democrat, but not anti-Republican. So the idea would be that it's civil to be pro-mustard, but not anti-ketchup.
> Doesn't it go both ways too? Because I wasn't trying to be uncivil with my post. But now that I have to reword it, won't I feel put down by that?
You might, but the primary goal of administrative posts isn't support. The deputies and I have different roles. So it doesn't exactly go both ways.
> Let's say for example, my husband is an wife abuser, and my T says I tend to have relationship with men that are unhealthy. Is that uncivil to the men at Babble? or for example I say that I was abused as a child by my parents, and my T says I should not continue the pattern with my kids. Wouldn't that be uncivil to the parents of Babble, some who may be abusing their kids?
>
> That is where I don't get it, it seems like it is okay to some things, but not others. Like I can talk about my T being a jerk, but isn't that uncivil to the T's on the boards going by Babble's rules?
>
> SlugSlimersSoSlidedWhat concerns me is whether others here might feel accused. If you say you tend to have relationships with abusive men, and you've had a relationship with a man here, he might feel accused, so that might be considered uncivil. But if you haven't had a relationship with any of the men here, I wouldn't expect them to feel accused, so it might be considered civil.
If you say all men are abusive, men here might feel accused whether or not you've had a relationship with them, so that might be considered uncivil, too.
Does that help?
Bob
Posted by BayLeaf on December 23, 2008, at 17:43:45
In reply to Re: Please clarify, posted by Dr. Bob on December 23, 2008, at 11:50:31
Basically Bob, I'm not smart enough or mentally well enough to post here.
You set your bar pretty high. I can't get there from crazy.
Bay
Posted by Phillipa on December 24, 2008, at 12:53:22
In reply to Re: Please clarify and/or rephrase » BayLeaf, posted by lucie lu on December 22, 2008, at 18:24:36
It is I find it very understanding and empathetic with posters working through things on their own. Love Phillipa I do appreciate that board.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.