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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by peddidle on February 28, 2007, at 21:52:38
I am always late for my morning classes. It doesn't matter what time it is, 9AM, 10AM, 11AM, if it is my first class of the day and it is in the AM, I am going to be late. I don't do it intentionally, I just can't get there on time.
I had this professor last semester too. He sent me an email about always coming to his 9AM class late. It was not an excessively mean email, but I got his point. Now I have class with him at 11AM this semester. I always get to his class late as well, but not nearly as late as the 9AM. I used to show up at the 9AM class 15 or 20 minutes late (I had been 45min late the day he sent me the email). I don't think I've been more than 10 minutes late for this class, and usually it's more like 5 minutes.
Well, I had his midterm today, and I was about 5 minutes late. I could tell he was really annoyed when he handed me the exam. I had to go to a different building for my extended time. When he finally told me to stop, (technically, I think should have still had 5 or 10 minutes left, but he said he had a meeting and had to get something to eat first...), I walked into his office and handed him the exam. Then as I turned to leave, he just started yelling at me about always coming to class late. He said he knows he's mentioned it to me before, and I continue to show up late. He told me he looked at my schedule, and he knows I don't have a class before his, so there's no reason that I should come to his class late. He was especially upset that I came to the midterm late. Then he said that it is a privilege that I get extended time on exams. It's really inconvenient for my professors, but they comply with it anyway, and I have no right to show up to an exam late just because I know that I get extended time. He said that next time I show up at his class late, he's not going to let me in.
Whoa!! First of all, my extended time is not a "privilege", it is a necessary accommodation. There's a difference. Second of all, I don't show-up late to exams just because I know I get more time than everyone else. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Plus, it's not like came 30min late because I knew I would have an extra 40min-- I got there 5min late. It didn't help that he started yelling at me right after I took an exam that I was pretty sure I failed. I'm think he was grading the papers that we handed in on Monday, which I'm also pretty sure I didn't not do well on.
I'm thinking I just shouldn't go to his class at all anymore. I'm always going to be afraid that if I'm 2min late he'll yell at me, or won't let me in and end up embarassing me in front of the class. I guess I could just read the book(s) and get all the info I need. Haha yeah, that's likely to happen.
I don't blame him for being upset. I know it's not right to get to class late, but he also didn't need to blow up at me like that. He didn't even let me get a word in, not that I really wanted to say anything. I just wanted to get out of there. I was so upset I just started crying uncontrollably. I tried calling my friend who can always make me laugh no matter how upset I am. He couldn't talk, but I told him it was ok. I didn't really want to talk about what happened, I just wanted to talk to someone. All my other friends were either busy or didn't answer their phones. So I hid in the bathroom and cried until my next class, 20min later.
This all happened around the end of lunchtime, so I was kind of hoping I would run into my T on her way back from lunch, but no such luck. I see her tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be just upset enough that I'll want to vent to her rather than so upset that I don't want to talk at all, if that makes any sense.
Anyway, sorry this is so long. I was just having a really stressful couple of weeks to begin with, and this was just one more thing that I didn't need.
Posted by Poet on February 28, 2007, at 23:35:06
In reply to my prof yelled at me (long), posted by peddidle on February 28, 2007, at 21:52:38
Hi Peddidle,
I can understand your prof being upset that you arrived late for the mid-term, but he didn't have to treat you so poorly about it. Cutting off your alloted time is just plain rotten. Especially so he can eat lunch. Like 10 more minutes would have made it impossible to go eat something? I don't think so.
Has he ever asked why you are late for classes? Just yelling at you and threatening to lock you out of the classroom doesn't seem to be a very good solution to the issue. Maybe you had a very valid reason for coming in late for the mid-term, he didn't seem to give you a chance to explain it, which I don't think is right.
Keep in mind I haven't taken a day class in a very long time and profs are more lenient for evening classes as most people are coming from work or need to wait for a babysitter, etc. In my class tonight the instructor waited 15 minutes to take attendance because the weather was lousy and the campus is downtown and parking can be hard to find when there are sporting events and/or concerts at the nearby facilities. Day class profs might be more strict on being late, but I don't know.
You said that your extended time to take exams is a necessary accomodation and I think that your prof needs to be reminded of that. Can you give him something in writing from the person/department that granted the accomodation?
I'm sorry your jerk professor made you cry. I hope your T helps you tomorrow.
Poet
Posted by Gee on March 1, 2007, at 14:08:29
In reply to my prof yelled at me (long), posted by peddidle on February 28, 2007, at 21:52:38
Wow, that sounds really horrible!
I get extended time as well, but here, the prof gives the test to the disabilities office, and you go up to the testing area and they have someone there waiting to give it to you and "watch" you while you take it. It doesn't matter if you're late or early, you still get the amount of time your suppose to. Is there any way something like that could be set up for you? Did your prof sign something saying that it was okay for you to get extra time? I didn't think they could take it away from you!!!!!!
As for the class you're always late for, do you come in and just take the seat closest to the door or do you go up front and disrupt the class? Could you try setting an alarm for say 10 minutes before you need to leave the house to be there on time?
I can't believe your prof yelled at you!!!! ((peddidle)))
Keep going to class. You can do it! Only 6 more weeks!!!
I hope your t was able to help. Maybe go talk to your disabilities advisor and see if they can help at all?
Posted by peddidle on March 1, 2007, at 19:00:58
In reply to Re: my prof yelled at me (long), posted by Poet on February 28, 2007, at 23:35:06
> Hi Peddidle,
>
> I can understand your prof being upset that you arrived late for the mid-term, but he didn't have to treat you so poorly about it. Cutting off your alloted time is just plain rotten. Especially so he can eat lunch. Like 10 more minutes would have made it impossible to go eat something? I don't think so.**Exactly! He had every right to be upset that I was late, but he should have been angry about that, not that I have a psychological reason for needing extended time. And, seriously, I'm sorry you're late for lunch, but do you think you'll survive if you don't eat until after your meeting?
>
> Has he ever asked why you are late for classes? Just yelling at you and threatening to lock you out of the classroom doesn't seem to be a very good solution to the issue. Maybe you had a very valid reason for coming in late for the mid-term, he didn't seem to give you a chance to explain it, which I don't think is right.**No, he never asked. I think he assumed I was always late for the 9:00am class because it was really early, but he said he can't, and doesn't need to, understand why I'm late for an 11:00am class. Granted, oversleeping is not a good excuse, but he should have at least given me a chance to explain.
>
> Keep in mind I haven't taken a day class in a very long time and profs are more lenient for evening classes as most people are coming from work or need to wait for a babysitter, etc. In my class tonight the instructor waited 15 minutes to take attendance because the weather was lousy and the campus is downtown and parking can be hard to find when there are sporting events and/or concerts at the nearby facilities. Day class profs might be more strict on being late, but I don't know.**Some professors are more lenient than others. Most of them understand if you're late because you have a class right before their's or something. He just happens to be a huge stickler for promptness.
>
> You said that your extended time to take exams is a necessary accomodation and I think that your prof needs to be reminded of that. Can you give him something in writing from the person/department that granted the accomodation?**He does have it in writing. We are required to get letters from the head of Disability Services to distribute to our professors. So I don't know what it is about "disability" that he doesn't understand. It's not like anyone can just walk in there and get extended time.
>
> I'm sorry your jerk professor made you cry. I hope your T helps you tomorrow.**My T wanted me to send him an email acknowledging that he has every right to be angry, but that I was hurt when he starting yelling about the extended time. She offerred to write the email with me, and I probably should have taken her up on that. I told her an email might make it worse, but I don't really know.
Thanks, Poet! I really appreciate your thoughts.
Posted by peddidle on March 1, 2007, at 19:13:57
In reply to Re: my prof yelled at me (long), posted by Gee on March 1, 2007, at 14:08:29
> Wow, that sounds really horrible!
>
> I get extended time as well, but here, the prof gives the test to the disabilities office, and you go up to the testing area and they have someone there waiting to give it to you and "watch" you while you take it. It doesn't matter if you're late or early, you still get the amount of time your suppose to. Is there any way something like that could be set up for you? Did your prof sign something saying that it was okay for you to get extra time? I didn't think they could take it away from you!!!!!!**I don't think something like that could be set up-- that would require a different kind of accommodation. But he doesn't even really need to be there-- there have been plenty of times when a professor has told me to give my exam to the secretary or something. Plus, it's college policy that I'm allowed to have extended time on my exams. So, you're right, he can't really take that away from me.
>
> As for the class you're always late for, do you come in and just take the seat closest to the door or do you go up front and disrupt the class? Could you try setting an alarm for say 10 minutes before you need to leave the house to be there on time?**When I'm late, I just take the seat closest to the door, or wherever the nearest open seat is. I don't intentionally disrupt the class, but I can't help it if the only way to get to the one open seat is to walk across the front of the room. I set my alarm for about an hour and a half before the class starts. I know what time I need to leave to get there on time, I just can't seem to do it.
>
> I can't believe your prof yelled at you!!!! ((peddidle)))**Thanks for the hug! I needed that!
>
> Keep going to class. You can do it! Only 6 more weeks!!!**Whoa! You only have 6 more weeks? I still have a little over 2 months left!
>
> I hope your t was able to help. Maybe go talk to your disabilities advisor and see if they can help at all?**I talked to my T about it. She said I should either send him an email telling him that I understand why he was angry that I showed up late, but that it upset me when he implied that my extended time is a privilege, or I should just continue going to class and get there on time and prove to him that I'm really trying. Both options are easier said than done.
Thanks for all your suggestions!!
Posted by philyra on March 2, 2007, at 11:11:26
In reply to Re: my prof yelled at me (long) » Gee, posted by peddidle on March 1, 2007, at 19:13:57
hi pediddle,
i really don't think your prof should have yelled at you. if he's upset that you're late, that's one thing, but i think his responsibility is only to tell you how it's going to affect your grade: nothing else.
i'm learning as i teach more (as a grad student) how subjective professors can be about their expectations. i try to be really clear with students about what the need to do to perform well and not to treat it (or take it) personally when they don't perform in some way.
sounds like you have a great therapist on your side. take care,philyra
Posted by peddidle on March 4, 2007, at 23:01:09
In reply to Re: my prof yelled at me (long) » peddidle, posted by philyra on March 2, 2007, at 11:11:26
> hi pediddle,
>
> i really don't think your prof should have yelled at you. if he's upset that you're late, that's one thing, but i think his responsibility is only to tell you how it's going to affect your grade: nothing else.**Exactly. He has every right to be angry that I was late, but he should have left it at that. Like last semester, he sent me an email about being late to class. Among other things, it mentioned that coming in late is disruptive to the class, and not productive to my learning. It was a pretty mean email, but it was fair.
>
> i'm learning as i teach more (as a grad student) how subjective professors can be about their expectations. i try to be really clear with students about what the need to do to perform well and not to treat it (or take it) personally when they don't perform in some way.**It sounds like you're a really good teacher. I find that the better professors are the ones who have a masters in education, or some other formal training in education.
>
> sounds like you have a great therapist on your side. take care,philyra**I do. Thanks!
Posted by peddidle on March 4, 2007, at 23:29:05
In reply to my prof yelled at me (long), posted by peddidle on February 28, 2007, at 21:52:38
I emailed my professor late Thursday night. I basically said that he had every right to be angry about my coming late to class. I apologized, and told him that, even though I don't have an excuse for being late, it is something that I am workin on.
But I also told him that I was hurt by his comments regarding my extended time. My extended time is not a privilege, it is an accommodation given to me by Disability Services. I told him that I appreciate his, and my other professors', understanding, but that it is college policy that I be granted this accommodation based on documented need.
Well....he wrote back, and basically just yelled at me again over the internet. He said that my "accommodation" (his quotes, not mine) is really a recommendation from the college. It is not an absolute right. I should be grateful that he chooses to honor it, because it is inconvenient for him. The fact that I came late was taking advantage of the privilege that he affords me, and shows that his time means nothing to me. He said the fact that I disrupted a class full of exam takers seems not to matter to me, and that I inconvenienced him and the rest of the class "for the sake of a few more minutes of sleep or whatever else you were doing between 10 and 11." He said he found my chronic lateness appalling, but this stunt was the last straw. He then said that my email suggested that I really don't understand how rude and disruptive my behavior was.
He sent me a second email saying that he just noticed that I sent my email at 3:05am, and perhaps that has something to do with the chronic lateness at 11. As if the first email wasn't bad enough, the second one was completely unecessary. I also noticed that he CCed my advisor on both of the emails. Great.
So much for trying to be civil. Clearly, I can't do anything right. I'm probably going to go into my usual passive-aggressive mode and see what happens tomorrow morning. If I oversleep (as I no doubt will), and it looks like I'll be late, I just won't go. Better that than be embarrassed as he refuses to let me in the room.
I forwarded both of the emails to my T. I'm sure I'll hear from her tomorrow morning. She was really concerned on Thursday, to the point where she asked me if I wanted to come in on Monday (see my post on the psych board for more info). So I hope the emails don't make her worried about me. I was planning on just walking in tomorrow and saying "Hi, I'm fine, see ya Thursday!", but I guess I'll decide after I hear from her...or be passive-aggressive and let her decide, but she won't play that game with me. :)
Posted by Gee on March 5, 2007, at 11:29:14
In reply to I emailed him..., posted by peddidle on March 4, 2007, at 23:29:05
What a jerk! He seriously does not diserve the time of day. I hope you're not planning on taking anymore classes with him.
I hope that your t has something helpful to say. Is she a t through your uni? I hope your advisor is able to help. I don't understand how your testing works. The profs give the exam to the disability services and then they make sure we get it. We never have to see our prof. And they also give the exam back to the profs. So it's not like the profs are ever waiting on us to go get lunch.
Don't let him upset you. I know it's hard, but he's just one very mean man
Posted by Poet on March 5, 2007, at 16:00:22
In reply to I emailed him..., posted by peddidle on March 4, 2007, at 23:29:05
Hi Pediddle,
I think your prof is a class A jerk. I wonder if he has any other students with special accomodations that he treats as poorly? He certainly seems to have a zero tolerance policy regarding your accomodation. Jerk.
I hope you made to class on time today, he does not deserve the satisfaction of locking you out. If I were you I would try my hardest to get there 15 minutes early and be sitting on the floor in the hallway waiting for him. Looking at your watch when he opens the door.
A extra hard cyber slap to his head.
Poet
Posted by peddidle on March 5, 2007, at 22:39:45
In reply to Re: I emailed him... » peddidle, posted by Gee on March 5, 2007, at 11:29:14
> What a jerk! He seriously does not diserve the time of day. I hope you're not planning on taking anymore classes with him.
**Well, unfortunately, I'll probably have to take more classes with him, because he's in my major department.
>
> I hope that your t has something helpful to say. Is she a t through your uni?**Yes, she is a T at my college's counseling center.
I hope your advisor is able to help. I don't understand how your testing works. The profs give the exam to the disability services and then they make sure we get it. We never have to see our prof. And they also give the exam back to the profs. So it's not like the profs are ever waiting on us to go get lunch.
**Disability Services is now separate from Counseling Services. Each professor handles the extended time differently. Some want you to start the exam with the class, and then either finish in that room, or go back to their office to finish. Other professors want you to start the exam in their office before the rest of the class. Some professors want you to take the exam at an entirely different time than the rest of the class.
>
> Don't let him upset you. I know it's hard, but he's just one very mean man**I'll try, but the damage has already been done, so to speak.
Posted by peddidle on March 5, 2007, at 22:47:54
In reply to Re: I emailed him... » peddidle, posted by Poet on March 5, 2007, at 16:00:22
> Hi Pediddle,
>
> I think your prof is a class A jerk. I wonder if he has any other students with special accomodations that he treats as poorly? He certainly seems to have a zero tolerance policy regarding your accomodation. Jerk.**He's been here for a while, so I can't imagine that he hasn't had any other students with special accomodations, even if he doesn't have any now.
>
> I hope you made to class on time today, he does not deserve the satisfaction of locking you out.**My T said in her email that I should try to go to class on time this week and then figure out what the best move is. I didn't go today though. It was half intentional, and half running late...or maybe 70%, 30%. I guess that's what my T refers to as being passive-aggressive. But I also didn't want to be embarassed by having him refuse to let me in.
If I were you I would try my hardest to get there 15 minutes early and be sitting on the floor in the hallway waiting for him. Looking at your watch when he opens the door.
**That is a really good idea. Unfortunately, my mind doesn't let me act that way. I wish it did, because I would love to shove it in his face, but right now, I don't even think I can handle seeing him at all.
>
> A extra hard cyber slap to his head.**Much appreciated!! :)
Posted by peddidle on March 6, 2007, at 0:28:20
In reply to my prof yelled at me (long), posted by peddidle on February 28, 2007, at 21:52:38
My professor emailed me again this morning. He said that his last email was too harsh and that "this has been bothering me all weekend." He is sorry for losing his temper, and that my accommodation is my right, and an entitlement. He has never not given a student an accommodation, although he knows some professors who completely ignore them. He said he understands it is more difficult for me than for anyone else, but that doesn't give me the right to take advantage of the entitlement and to inconvenience others.
I should understand why I "pushed his buttons," because he told me last semester how he feels about lateness. Coming late to the midterm was the last straw, and disrupting other exam-takers and imposing on his time was beyond civility. If it was a rare instance, he would have just ignored it, but it is part of a chronic pattern. He said he doesn't understand what I mean when I said "it is something I am working on,"-- coming on time to an 11AM class is either something you do, or not. If I was working on it, I wouldn't be doing it.
Then he acknowledged that this is a separate issue from the accommodation. If I come on time for the final, he will give me as much time as I need (my accommodation gives me time and a half), but if I show up late, I will not be allowed to take the exam at all.
My guess is that my advisor may have said something to him that prompted this email. Interestingly, he did not CC my advisor on this email. Whatever, if it was really bothering him this weekend, then he deserved it, but I tend to think he is just covering his own behind. I don't know what to do about this, it's such an awkward situation.
I forwarded this email to my T, also. I didn't hear from her, but it didn't really need a response. I just wanted her to have it, because it's easier than regurgitating it to her later.
Posted by Gee on March 6, 2007, at 15:12:44
In reply to He emailed me again, posted by peddidle on March 6, 2007, at 0:28:20
At least he kinda apologized... And the time for the exam does seem fair if it's bothering him that much. Were you able to get to class on time this week?
Posted by Poet on March 6, 2007, at 17:59:49
In reply to He emailed me again, posted by peddidle on March 6, 2007, at 0:28:20
Hi Pediddle,
I think your prof apologized with a *but* added to it: he does understand that your special accomodation is a right and not a privilege, but he will not extend it to being late for exams.
I don't like that he threatened that if you are late for the final, you can't take it at all, but I can see his point that being late is a separate issue from your accomodations.
I think he's giving you an advanced heads up that when the final comes around, you better be there on time or don't bother to come at all and get an F. I have a fear of failure, so for me, that threat really hits home.
Let us know what your T says.
Poet
Posted by jose3 on April 5, 2007, at 22:17:24
In reply to Re: my prof yelled at me (long), posted by Poet on February 28, 2007, at 23:35:06
I can totally sympathize. Profs can be so weird and unreasonable about stuff, I critisized mine on a totally unfair marking scheme she was using and he blew it out of proportion and now Im terrified that it will be held against me mars-wise. Good luck with yours!
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