Psycho-Babble Social Thread 238884

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Re: help, please.... » whiterabbit

Posted by Emme on July 3, 2003, at 19:32:43

In reply to Re: help, please...., posted by whiterabbit on July 3, 2003, at 18:24:32

Hi Gracie,

> Emme are you getting live help? As special as this site is, sometimes you need the hands-on
> kind of help. Do you have a therapist or support group?

I did call my pdoc's office this morning to check in and left the message that I was having a setback. She's made it clear I should call if I need her and is doing her best to be supportive. My therapist is on vacation. Believe it or not I was actually out of town during the afternoon today. I managed to follow through with plans, even though I was tired and dispirited and didn't want to go.

> Are you taking medication?

Yeah. Too darned many of them. :( But nothing seems expendible at the moment.

> Have you considered a short hospitalization? A
> hospital with a GOOD psychiatric program can be > extremely helpful

Yeah, I've thouht about it, my doctor and I have mentioned it, and there are times I've started to want it. It's never discounted. If I get too much worse.... But in the meantime, my pdoc has had me schedule an appointment for a consulting opinion with someone she recommends highly. It's at the end of July (and it's going to be wicked expensive). She wants a fresh set of eyes and ideas.

> (I've experienced both at two local hospitals - very good treatment and very mediocre treatment). Think about it and write me if you have questions > - I've been around the psychiatric block more than a few times and learned some stuff the hard way.

Actually, if I could ask a few questions maybe I'd feel less scared of the whole idea...

What made the good treatment good? What made the mediocre treatment bad?

Did the doctor in the hospital communicate with your regular pdoc?
Were you treated with respect?

How much of your own clothing/possessions are you allowed to have with you? Do you get any privacy?

Were you allowed to leave the floor and go outside at *all*?
I know this sounds silly, and maybe I have really distorted ideas about what happens when you're in the hospital, but I think I am terrified of the idea of loss of personal freedom. At my worst I'm sure I wouldn't care because I'd be in so much pain. But if I started to improve, then I could see myself totally freaking out not being able to go outdoors.

I'm open to hearing anything else you think would be helpful. Thanks so much and thanks for helping yank me through another hellish night.

Emme

 

talked to friend briefly

Posted by Emme on July 3, 2003, at 20:34:28

In reply to help, please...., posted by Emme on July 2, 2003, at 22:40:15

I just spoke to my friend on the phone. I invited him to join me at a July 4th party. He declined for perfectly reasonable reasons. But his tone of voice was cool. I think he's mad. I think he is concluding that I'm not someone he wants to hang around with. I still feel guilty.

You see, a few weeks ago he witnessed me have a brief incident of rage - I yelled at a stranger who was nasty to us. But my reaction was out of proportion. That's not normal for me - I *rarely* lose my cool like that. I'm not known for being hot headed. I was mortified and he was furious. At that time I was so guilt ridden that I was up most of the night and cut myself. I talked to my pdoc and to my therapist about it and that helped. And it seemed like the friendship stood a chance of getting back on track.

So even though last night wasn't a rage incident or directed at anything personal, I think the intensity of our discussion turned him off. Plus he's stressed in general.

You guys are probably right that I didn't really do anything wrong. At least I'm trying to tell myself that. He does tend to be a bit preachy and opinionated himself, which makes me feel like I'm being lectured at, and so I tend to play devil's advocate, and I end up being more contrary than I normally am. But we've had a mostly pleasant friendship for a number of years. I guess I hate the person that I become sometimes and feel terrible that I can't act more consistently like the person I want to be. (does that make sense? Boy am I rambling).

Anyway, I still feel out of sorts and guilty, and can't concentrate. I guess the improvements I'd made over the last few days were just not sturdy enough to withstand anything stressful.

Thanks for listening.

Emme

 

Re: help, please.... » Emme

Posted by fallsfall on July 3, 2003, at 22:45:15

In reply to Re: help, please.... » whiterabbit, posted by Emme on July 3, 2003, at 19:32:43

> Actually, if I could ask a few questions maybe I'd feel less scared of the whole idea...
>
My experience is that each hospital is different about many, many things. Maybe you could get a tour and then you could ask about the specifics of the hospital near you.

I was on a locked unit for two weeks both 8 years ago and 1 year ago (same hospital). (2 weeks is actually pretty long these days)

> What made the good treatment good? What made the mediocre treatment bad?
>
My hospital had bunches of groups. In the groups we learned about things - Cognitive distortions, Self Esteem, Medications, Relaxation, etc. We were working more on general strategies - not so much on our individual issues. You could talk with a staff member 1-1 about your issues. The groups were really important.

> Did the doctor in the hospital communicate with your regular pdoc?

Not very well. I had tried a bunch of SSRIs and the doctor in the hospital needed to choose another for me. I thought he should consult with my pdoc to find out what my pdoc has learned about me. The hospital guy didn't try very hard to get in touch with my pdoc. Eventually I called my pdoc and relayed the info to the hospital doc. I was not happy about that. The pdoc did really short psychotherapy as well as med management. He wrote a summary for my therapist when I left.

> Were you treated with respect?

I was always treated with respect.
>
> How much of your own clothing/possessions are you allowed to have with you?

I wore all my own clothes and had my own toiletries. I brought some toys (cards, walkman, etc.)

They did check EVERYTHING I brought in and EVERYTHING anybody else brought for me. They wouldn't let me have anything "sharp" (includes knives, pins, screwdrivers, anything that you could use to hurt yourself), no belts/ties, (some hospitals take shoelaces). Even if you aren't going to hurt yourself, someone else could "borrow" your stuff so they can't let it be there. You can have certain things for short periods of time (razor for shaving, scissors for a craft, etc). I found it more amusing than aggravating.

Do you get any privacy?

Private rooms are few and far between. They want you to be socializing. I could always (almost) find a corner to read or write or whatever. I didn't feel a lack of privacy.
>
> Were you allowed to leave the floor and go outside at *all*?

Hospitals have different safety levels. As you become safer and calmer you can move up a level. Each level has "restrictions" - things you can and cannot do.

The most restrictive (and most people never do this level) says you have to be within an arm's reach of a staff person (someone gets assigned to watch you).

Another level you can't leave the unit and staff check on you every 15 minutes.

The first level that can leave the unit has to leave and stay with a staff member.

Another can go to particular places, but has to call on the phone when they get there.

At the top, you have access to the hospital and grounds (which were beautiful at my hospital - trees, grass, swings(!!!)).

If you were off the unit you had to come back every so often (30 minutes? 60 minutes?) so they knew you were OK.

> I know this sounds silly, and maybe I have really distorted ideas about what happens when you're in the hospital, but I think I am terrified of the idea of loss of personal freedom.

They restrict your freedom to keep you safe. There are other hospital units that are not locked - I don't know how they operate. I loved being restricted because it made me feel safe and taken care of.

At my worst I'm sure I wouldn't care because I'd be in so much pain. But if I started to improve, then I could see myself totally freaking out not being able to go outdoors.

Some hospitals have outdoor priviledges and some don't. Maybe you want to shop around for a hospital (do this before you HAVE to be there).
>
> I'm open to hearing anything else you think would be helpful.

Both of my hospital stays were VERY helpful. Later I went to visit a friend at my hospital and I was afraid I would want to stay. But I could tell when I was there by watching the patients that I didn't need to be there, so it was OK to leave.

Your experience will depend a lot on who you are and what your issues are. Some people love it. Some people hate it.

Thanks so much and thanks for helping yank me through another hellish night.
>
> Emme
>
Good Luck!!!

 

Re: talked to friend briefly

Posted by kara lynne on July 3, 2003, at 23:38:25

In reply to talked to friend briefly, posted by Emme on July 3, 2003, at 20:34:28

Hi Emme,
Yes, you make perfect sense. I also have a lot of conflict around the expression of anger. I really understand the impulse to go directly to self punishment after the expression of rage.

When you don't respond to the first 20 people who are nasty, the 21st might understandably be shaky. But anger in response to a nasty person is a perfectly understandable response. I know those "unbalanced" responses that come from having suppressed them for so long. But consider that your friend might also have his own issues around anger--his reaction isn't necessarily an accurate guage from which to judge yourself so harshly.

I certainly don't have any answers. It's easy for me to tell you to give yourself a break I would not offer myself. But I am trying.

I'm so glad you're a little better today, and that you have good help available. Love, K.L.

 

Re: help, please.... » fallsfall

Posted by Emme on July 4, 2003, at 8:42:40

In reply to Re: help, please.... » Emme, posted by fallsfall on July 3, 2003, at 22:45:15

Thanks so much for your perspectives on the hospital. That helps.

Emme

 

Re: talked to friend briefly » kara lynne

Posted by Emme on July 4, 2003, at 9:04:43

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly, posted by kara lynne on July 3, 2003, at 23:38:25

Hi. Okay. Today feels like it's starting out bad again. I've got to try to keep it contained somehow. My friend sent out a general e-mail to a number of people with an update on what he's been up to. At least I was on the list. But there was no response to the message I sent. I think he's choosing not do deal with it. You're right. He probably has his own issues too. Maybe it's not all me. Somehow I grew up with a big guilt complex over expression of anger. I wonder if my brothers feel the same way...they certainly express anger more.

All of this is a lot of emotional reaction over something relatively minor. My emotional reservoir is not well stocked.
Also, I tend to be extremely sensitive to what people say to me (or don't say), and how they say it. I just soak it up like a sponge and let it gnaw at my self esteem. And the bigger the conflict, the worse I'd feel of course. (Though in the past I didn't used to hurt myself.) I know I do it. But counseling hasn't gotten me to stop doing it yet. I guess I know what to talk about next time I see my therapist. Let's make a deal - we'll both try to give ourselves a break over the next difficult thing that happens. Thanks for the support and input.

I hope you have a good 4th.
love, emme

> Hi Emme,
> Yes, you make perfect sense. I also have a lot of conflict around the expression of anger. I really understand the impulse to go directly toself punishment after the expression of rage.
>
> When you don't respond to the first 20 people who are nasty, the 21st might understandably be shaky. But anger in response to a nasty person is a perfectly understandable response. I know those "unbalanced" responses that come from having suppressed them for so long. But consider that your friend might also have his own issues around anger--his reaction isn't necessarily an accurate guage from which to judge yourself so harshly.
>
> I certainly don't have any answers. It's easy for me to tell you to give yourself a break I would not offer myself. But I am trying.
>
> I'm so glad you're a little better today, and that you have good help available. Love, K.L.
>
>

 

Re: talked to friend briefly - Karya Lynne

Posted by Emme on July 4, 2003, at 9:08:41

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly » kara lynne, posted by Emme on July 4, 2003, at 9:04:43


> I hope you have a good 4th.
> love, emme

Unless you're not in the U.S. I haven't been paying attention...Bad emme, bad emme.... ;)

 

Re: talked to friend briefly » Emme

Posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 10:17:24

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly » kara lynne, posted by Emme on July 4, 2003, at 9:04:43

Sounds like you are one of us--the 'flaming amygdala gang'. I recognize the instant panic that occurs in interactions with people when you feel overwhelmed with feelings, worried about having hurt them, or feeling hurt,etc. The trick is to try to get the thinking brain--the cortex--to talk to the reactive brain--which includes my 'favorite' part--the amygdala--to calm it down with reason and openness to the potential for solving problems thoughtfully.

It takes a lot of practice. I've gotten much better at it, but I still have my fight-or-flight moments big time (lately it is at work with my bully boss). When this happens, its total amygdala action--zoom--I flee. Thinking and reason are not in the room at all.

I guess what has changed over time for me is that I calm down quicker now. But I know what it is like to be totally flooded with feeling--it feels to me like reason and language are totally inaccessible and nothing will calm me down. When flooded with emotion, it can be overwhelming, which is I guess where the cutting comes in for you.

Can you find substitutes for cutting that would have similar physiological effects on your state of arousal? How about some sensory integration stuff--like brushing with those "cornbrushes" (not too hard though!). Sensory integration (ironically abreviated as SI same as self injury) uses deep touch. Dinah once mentioned another sensory integration technique that she uses sometimes--tightly wrapping oneself in a sheet or blanket.

Hope today is calmer for you!

 

Re: talked to friend briefly

Posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 13:40:30

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly » kara lynne, posted by Emme on July 4, 2003, at 9:04:43

*Let's make a deal - we'll both try to give ourselves a break over the next difficult thing that happens. *

Sounds good to me Emme--ok, remember, we have a deal!!

In my family it was not the same for men as ait was for women; I was thinking that throughout our emails, so it's interesting that you bring it up. It was not the same in a lot of ways. Right now I'm just amazed at how unkind my father is being to me. It's as if he's punishing me for not being able to keep an abusive man around. It's very hard for me to come to terms with. *He* can sure be angry, but any show of mine invites instant rejection from him. Hey, he stopped talking to me the other day because I suggested he needed a shot of freon in his car air conditioner.

Anyway, remember our deal and keep posting. And yes I am in the US, but I hate the 4th of July; all I think about is how scared the animals get from the explosions (me being one of them, I guess). People do really stupid things and light dynamite in theaters and things like that. I try not to think about it too much.

 

Re: 4th of July » kara lynne

Posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2003, at 14:20:52

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly, posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 13:40:30

4th of July. I hate loud sudden noises. So I hate firecrackers, and balloons, and guns.

When I was little my family went to the local football field to watch the fireworks. I hated it. I sat through the whole show with my hands over my ears crying. Now that I've grown I still don't like fireworks, but I have kids so I needed to tolerate a certain amount. I eventually found that I could park my car away from the fireworks. We could still see them, but they weren't as loud, and you didn't feel them in your stomach. 2 of my 3 children came with me. The third went up close with his dad.

This year I am not planning to go at all.

P.S. The worst birthday party game: My best friend (and I) were probably 5. The game was to see how many balloons you could pop by sitting on them! I didn't play.

 

Re: 4th of July

Posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 15:35:28

In reply to Re: 4th of July » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2003, at 14:20:52

Oh God. Balloons popping! Just the thought that they *could* pop is enough to drive me crazy.

When I was younger my parents used to take my poor, scared dog and me to my grandmother's house (remote, quiet area) on the 4th of July to spend the night. I'd be there now if I could! I try to send prayers to the animals--so many dogs run away and are lost on the 4th of July.

Thank you so much for understanding.

 

Noa

Posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 15:36:56

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly » Emme, posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 10:17:24

Just makes me want to start a band: "Noa and the Flaming Amygdalas".

 

fallsfalll---also...

Posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 15:41:36

In reply to Re: 4th of July » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2003, at 14:20:52

A friend of mine invited me up to Lake Arrowhead for the 4th of July. She said they do laser shows instead of fireworks due to the fire hazard. Now *that* sounds like a good idea to me!

Unfortunately I can't leave my cat; she's having such a difficult time adjusting to the move. Ironically she's deaf, and I think it adds to her hypersensitivity. Just what we need around here, some more hypersensivity! (I'm glad on days like these that she's deaf, however.)

 

Re: fallsfalll---also... » kara lynne

Posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2003, at 17:09:32

In reply to fallsfalll---also..., posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 15:41:36

Laser Light show. That would be a great idea. You get the pretty without the bang.

I was thinking, hmmm if I were deaf I wouldn't hear the fireworks - but they reverberate in your stomach so I guess that's not a solution.

When I was growing up, my dog hid under a child-size table in my bedroom during thunderstorms. The fireworks weren't close to the house. I think my current dogs bark at the fireworks. One of the times I got the maddest was when a neighborhood kid was setting off fireworks on the street while my baby was trying to nap. Boy did he hear from me.

 

Re: fireworks » kara lynne

Posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 17:41:32

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly, posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 13:40:30

I HATE fireworks. I mean, they are pretty and all and I remember liking them when I was a kid, but now I hate them. It is the noise--the explosions, I think. And the crowds, too.

 

Re: the band » kara lynne

Posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 17:42:54

In reply to Noa, posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 15:36:56

> Just makes me want to start a band: "Noa and the Flaming Amygdalas".

LOL! If only I were musical!!

 

Re: firecrackers

Posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 17:46:33

In reply to Re: fallsfalll---also... » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2003, at 17:09:32

What is much worse than the organized fireworks is the random firecrackers people set off. Just now I was sitting here at my computer and I heard this faint whistling sound and I went into hyperalert thinking it was a firecracker outside. The organized stuff will sound like a thunderstorm, not too close, from here, but if people go and do their own fire cracker stuff, lord only knows how I'll deal with that.

Just in the news this week, there was a truck explosion--a truck filled with fireworks--and an explosion at a fireworks factory.

 

Re: firecrackers

Posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 17:51:18

In reply to Re: firecrackers, posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 17:46:33

Exactly. And the punk kids who do things like set off M80's (I forget if that's the right name) in movie theaters. That happened a couple of years ago to me 4th of July--when I thought I was escaping the chaos by sitting in a nice, calm movie theater. Really cute.

 

In-patient treatment (long and long) » Emme

Posted by whiterabbit on July 4, 2003, at 22:09:25

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly - Karya Lynne, posted by Emme on July 4, 2003, at 9:08:41

Both of my hospital admissions were involuntary and made on an emergency basis, so I had to start out at the top in the "high risk" category. At this level you're considered to be possibly violent or suicidal, so there are a lot of restrictions for your own safety. You wear hospital scrubs and slippers and you have no access to your possessions at first. You're confined to the ward, which usually consists of a dayroom with television & reading material, patient rooms, nurses station, private rooms for counseling, & someplace to eat & socialize. You do have free access to the telephone and visiting hours.

Even at this level you're not treated like a prisoner where everyone is subject to all the same rules. They start to ease up on restrictions as soon as they determine that it's safe to do so.
I was always treated with respect and remember on several occasions being genuinely touched by the kindness of a staff member. I saw only one person being forced into restraints after getting combative with an orderly, and they let him go again as soon as he settled down. Otherwise I saw no one being physically restrained in any way beyond confinement to the ward.

At the hospital with the good psychiatric program there were two wards - one for high-risk patients and others who needed close supervision. Some patients appeared to be senile, psychotic or severely retarded - also harmless. I never felt threatened or offended by any of these patients who were pretty much out of touch with their surroundings. And there were plenty of other patients like myself, rational but overwhelmed by their emotional pain. I was admitted to this ward as a suicide risk for a short period of observation. I suppose my lab tests results from the emergency room showed a high blood alcohol content, as my nurse seemed aware that not only was I frightened out of my wits, I was also terribly hungover. After watching me pace for awhile, agitated and crying, she caught up with me in the hallway & asked when was the last time I had slept. It had been quite some time, and I hadn't slept really well for ages. She asked if I would like to have something that would help me calm down and get some rest.

Back in my room, the nurse brought me some pills in a cup & sat down next to my bed. She seemed very concerned about me. I took the pills and sighed, "Don't know why I'm bothering, nothing helps me sleep, I've tried everything you could..." Wham, I was out. I slept for quite awhile and woke up feeling better than I had for a very long time. I had been seriously sleep-deprived and completely exhausted.

If your psychiatrist admits you on a voluntary basis I don't believe you will have to worry about this level of restriction. You are there, after all, of your own accord. Obviously voluntary commitment is preferable before things get so bad that you end up being involuntarily committed - or dead. If you're worried, ask your psychiatrist what kind of restrictions you can expect after a voluntary admission.

Don't worry that they'll lock you up in there and not let you out for a long time. It's an understandable fear but unfounded. Inpatient care of any kind is horrendously expensive and each day you spend in the hospital must be justified to whomever is picking up the tab. The whole process of inpatient treatment is geared towards making you well enough as efficiently as possible so that you can go home. Aside from the prohibitive cost, there are patients waiting for your bed.

My first recommendation for finding a good hospital program is to make sure that the ward is segregated as I described. On my second admission to a different hospital (the other hospital was full), all the psychiatric patients were housed on the same floor and not separated. Both hospitals had 2-man rooms with private showers and seemed to assign roommates according to their general stability. But at the second hospital you had to share the dayroom and the rest of the ward with all patients. I found this to be really unpleasant. There were several elderly patients with Alzheimers and they made a huge racket, shouting the same thing over and over ALL day long. It was disconcerting and depressing for
everyone.

At the "good" hospital I was assigned to a social worker/counselor type person in addition to the nurse. She was awesome, very kind and concerned.
She gave me her pager number & told me to call any time I needed to talk. After a day and a half on the restricted ward she recommended that I be moved and I thankfully graduated to the "other side".

At the bad hospital program, there was group therapy but no individual counseling. This made a huge difference in my general impression of the hospital's treatment & care. The individual counseling added a personal touch that was definately lacking at the second hospital. While I was always assigned to a specific nurse at both places, them nurses stay pretty busy. They just don't have time to sit down & chat with you for more than a few minutes, while a therapist does -
that's her job. She assesses your mental condition & makes up a report for the doctor to refer to when he's deciding on your treatment plan. She's also a go-between: she has direct contact with the psychiatrist while the patient usually does not (aside from the usual 10 or 15 minute visit, just like on the outside).
I would definately recommend a treatment program that assigns you to an individual counselor, therapist or social worker.

I had no problem with the restrictions myself. After a long stretch in the military, hospital restrictions seem mickey mouse and they didn't offend me. In fact, after a couple of days I kind of started to appreciate having someone else make all the decisions - being temporarily relieved of most everyday responsibilities is curiously liberating. No job, no housework, no kids, nobody to impress, no pressure, nowhere you have to go & nothing you have to do but concentrate on getting well. At the good hospital, my blood pressure was monitered a couple of times a day because of my hypertension. Even with medication, my bp usually hovers around the barely acceptable 140/90. I was astounded at the rate that my blood pressure fell while I was an in-patient. The nurse told me this wasn't unusual, as patients are relieved of most common stressors. Normally the most difficult decision you have to make is what kind of dessert to order with your meal.

While this all may sound incredibly boring, I don't remember getting too bored at the first hospital. Your whole day is organized with different activities - mealtimes, visiting hours, psychiatric evaluations by the therapist and doctors, group counseling and classes for patient education. (The classes weren't strictly mandatory, but otherwise you were confined to your room during classtime & I'm sure inattendence is not noted as progress.) I didn't mind participating - it was fascinating to hear stories from the other patients, & to learn that we were far from just "a pack of loonies". Two patients I remember in particular: the quiet woman who always carried her stuffed bear was an executive at a Fortune 500 company, and a medical resident whose boyfriend had managed to entice her into injecting heroin & she got hooked. I sat up with her one evening & held her hand while she cried - she HAD to clean up to continue her residency but she loved the guy who was still using. My heart ached for her. I hope she was able to break away from him and go on to fulfill
her dream of being a doctor.

So there you go: more than you ever wanted to know about in-patient treatment. I really hope you consider a short stay at a good hospital with a reputable psychiatric program. Ask your psychiatrist to recommend a hospital where she has treatment privilages. A week or so in a really good program can be very therapeutic and a tremendous help in diagnosing your condition and planning the best medical treatment for you. It also helps to connect with the other patients who are struggling as you are with emotional pain.
It does make you realize that you're NOT strange,
NOT different, NOT unworthy, NOT alone...and not unloved.

-Gracie

 

Re: In-patient treatment (long and long) » whiterabbit

Posted by Emme on July 6, 2003, at 9:31:59

In reply to In-patient treatment (long and long) » Emme, posted by whiterabbit on July 4, 2003, at 22:09:25

Gracie,

Thanks for taking the time to post such a long and thoughtful reply. That helps me have an idea of what questions to ask.

Emme

 

Re: talked to friend briefly » noa

Posted by Emme on July 6, 2003, at 9:53:45

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly » Emme, posted by noa on July 4, 2003, at 10:17:24


> Sounds like you are one of us--the 'flaming amygdala gang'.

Flaming Amygdala Gang. I like that. Almost as good as the informal group I was a member of - the Angry Whiners' Club. :)

Yeah, I definitely get to feeling a bit overwhelmed and feel kind of traumatized by really negative interactions. Especially if someone else comes at me with a very angry tone of voice or if I feel guilty (and it's probably often unnecessary guilt).

> I recognize the instant panic that occurs in interactions with people when you feel overwhelmed with feelings, worried about having hurt them, or feeling hurt,etc. The trick is to try to get the thinking brain--the cortex--to talk to the reactive brain--which includes my 'favorite' part--the amygdala--to calm it down with reason and openness to the potential for solving problems thoughtfully.

The only way I've been able to do that is with the help of whoever is available to talk about it, offer perspective, and calm me down. I'm not good at doing it for myself - yet. I need to be like a duck and let stormy stuff roll off my back.

> It takes a lot of practice. I've gotten much better at it, but I still have my fight-or-flight moments big time (lately it is at work with my bully boss). When this happens, its total amygdala action--zoom--I flee. Thinking and reason are not in the room at all.

Have you seen the book How to Deal with People You Can't Stand ..or is it Dealing with People you Can't Stand... Well, that's not helpful if I can't quite recall the title. But it's something like that. Anyway, if you can get your amygdala maybe halfway there, this book offers some good concrete stragegies for dealing with people like you boss, and it's a fun read to boot. I thought of it because he describes difficult people by personality type...."grenade", "tank", etc. and you describe your boss as a bully.

> I guess what has changed over time for me is that I calm down quicker now.

That's good. It sounds like the self-talk is working for you.

> But I know what it is like to be totally flooded with feeling--it feels to me like reason and language are totally inaccessible and nothing will calm me down. When flooded with emotion, it can be overwhelming, which is I guess where the cutting comes in for you.

Overwheleming emotion *and* the need to punish myself if I feel guilty.

> Can you find substitutes for cutting that would have similar physiological effects on your state of arousal?

I've found from time to time that causing some pain without breaking skin actually physically calms me a little - bizarre - and I normally have little tolerance for pain. That kind of thing doesn't do much for the guilt, but at least I feel a little less aroused.

> How about some sensory integration stuff--like brushing with those "cornbrushes" (not too hard though!). Sensory integration (ironically abreviated as SI same as self injury) uses deep touch. Dinah once mentioned another sensory integration technique that she uses sometimes--tightly wrapping oneself in a sheet or blanket.

I could experiment with some of these things. I haven't tried the ice cube thing yet, but I think I might.

Emme of the Flaming Amygdala


 

Re: talked to friend briefly » kara lynne

Posted by Emme on July 6, 2003, at 10:09:17

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly, posted by kara lynne on July 4, 2003, at 13:40:30

> *Let's make a deal - we'll both try to give ourselves a break over the next difficult thing that happens. *
>
> Sounds good to me Emme--ok, remember, we have a deal!!

You bet!

> In my family it was not the same for men as ait was for women; I was thinking that throughout our emails, so it's interesting that you bring it up. It was not the same in a lot of ways.

That's bad. I think in my family I'm not sure where gender fits in. My mother can certainly express anger. I'm not sure how my brothers feel about expressing their anger because I've never asked them. But I might ask one of them. He's got a bit of a temper on him, but he may or may not feel bad when he loses it. My dad doesn't overreact if I grouch at him a little once in a while. Mom gets much more hurt. But years ago my dad used to be something of a bully and he's really mellowed out.

> Right now I'm just amazed at how unkind my father is being to me. It's as if he's punishing me for not being able to keep an abusive man around. It's very hard for me to come to terms with. *He* can sure be angry, but any show of mine invites instant rejection from him. Hey, he stopped talking to me the other day because I suggested he needed a shot of freon in his car air conditioner.

Oh my gosh. That sounds dreadful. You deserve for him to have *your* best interests at heart and for him to treat you with respect. Has your father always been verbally abusive? It sounds like you know the score here, but if your father's treatment ever causes you to start to doubt or blame yourself, tell yourself: It's not me, it's him.


> Anyway, remember our deal and keep posting.

You too. I haven't been reading all the threads, so I'm not completely up on things, but I do hope you're doing okay in your new place, that your exams went okay. I'll look around on the board to see what the situation is with your ex - I hope you get some peace soon.

Emme

 

Re: talked to friend briefly

Posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 14:24:13

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly » kara lynne, posted by Emme on July 6, 2003, at 10:09:17

Hi Emme,
Good to hear from you. My father isn't so much verbally abusive as he is passive aggressive. He will just turn off and stop speaking to me and become very punishing with silence. He also gets very sarcastic.

It's interesting because when I was telling him that we broke up I mentioned that my ex had said some things to me that were unforgiveable. He never asked me what they were, he just immediately said, "You should always forgive."

I think he really respected my ex (who didn't show much respect for me); they could relate on an intellectual level which is of foremost importance to my father. He has really sent me conflicting, crippling messages about my own abilities in life. I'm trying hard, but separating from a lifetime of negative enmeshment is no easy task.

Anyhow....hope you are doing well and let's talk again soon.

 

and I guess it's no small thing...

Posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 14:45:56

In reply to Re: talked to friend briefly, posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 14:24:13

...that he was pretty demeaning to my mother in front of all the kids while we were growing up. It became a form of bonding to mother-bash. My mother, while not a wonderful mother, certainly was not helped by this.

It's all so complicated because at a certain point he became guilty and I was then supposed to take care of my mother emotionally. Then I was punished for showing anger towards her--something that had been previously almost rewarded. I know he also resented his own mother like mad.

Early on I heard him making sexually demoralzing comments about women with my brothers. I remember going out to breakfast once with him and my two brothers. My brothers were laughing about the fact that they had both slept with a roommate I'd had in the psychiatric hospital (I was hospitalized when I was 15 years old for depression--for nine months.) My father also seemed to be in on the joke. I said it wasn't funny, that this particular girl had told me stories of sleeping with a knife under her pillow in case her molesting stepfather should come in her room.

So I got the message early about what women were good for. I know (although I'm not supposed to) that my father lost his virginity to a prostitute, although I'm told that wasn't unusual for the era.

Oh Emme, I've really gone off here, haven't I? I don't really have any point, but it all seems to swim around in there somewhere.

Thank you for letting me ramble on.

 

Re: and I guess it's no small thing... » kara lynne

Posted by Emme on July 6, 2003, at 21:34:10

In reply to and I guess it's no small thing..., posted by kara lynne on July 6, 2003, at 14:45:56

Aw gee. You must be made of tough stuff to have survived. That's a pretty harsh environment you just described. What are you brothers like now - did they grow up and become better guys? Do you have much contact with them?

Between your ex and your father you have a lot of sh** being heaped upon you. Since your father is being unkind and unsupportive, is it possible for you to distance yourself from him and have minimal contact for a while?

Don't worry about rambling or having a point. Every now and then, stuff just needs to spill out... BTW, I can't recall if you mentioned what you are studying.

Emme

> ...that he was pretty demeaning to my mother in front of all the kids while we were growing up. It became a form of bonding to mother-bash. My mother, while not a wonderful mother, certainly was not helped by this.
>
> It's all so complicated because at a certain point he became guilty and I was then supposed to take care of my mother emotionally. Then I was punished for showing anger towards her--something that had been previously almost rewarded. I know he also resented his own mother like mad.
>
> Early on I heard him making sexually demoralzing comments about women with my brothers. I remember going out to breakfast once with him and my two brothers. My brothers were laughing about the fact that they had both slept with a roommate I'd had in the psychiatric hospital (I was hospitalized when I was 15 years old for depression--for nine months.) My father also seemed to be in on the joke. I said it wasn't funny, that this particular girl had told me stories of sleeping with a knife under her pillow in case her molesting stepfather should come in her room.
>
> So I got the message early about what women were good for. I know (although I'm not supposed to) that my father lost his virginity to a prostitute, although I'm told that wasn't unusual for the era.
>
> Oh Emme, I've really gone off here, haven't I? I don't really have any point, but it all seems to swim around in there somewhere.
>
> Thank you for letting me ramble on.


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