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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by tina on August 22, 2002, at 14:00:12
Ok, I've been seeing this psychologist since early february, once a week. That's a lot of hours so far. What kind of progress should I expect? I don't feel like I've made any headway but when I bring this feeling up, she says "it's a process, it won't get done in a day" but I'm so NOT patient. Shouldn't I be getting some benefit from this by now?
I guess I'm just frustrated. I've been screwed up for nearly 15 years now and I'm so tired. I just want to be the way I was, spontaneous, adventurous, life-loving and happy. Not too much to ask, huh? :(
T
Posted by Ted on August 22, 2002, at 15:30:37
In reply to What should I expect from therapy?, posted by tina on August 22, 2002, at 14:00:12
Tina,
> Ok, I've been seeing this psychologist since early february, once a week. That's a lot of hours so far. What kind of progress should I expect? I don't feel like I've made any headway but when I bring this feeling up, she says "it's a process, it won't get done in a day"
Sure sounds like someone trying to maximise her financial benefit: No measurable goals, etc.
Unfortunately, that's what it's like, I think. I have been seeing my therapist for over a year now and she has helped with a lot. Most of the time though, it seems like a waste of an hour.
>I just want to be the way I was, spontaneous, adventurous, life-loving and happy. Not too much to ask, huh? :(
Not at all! It's never too much to ask. It might be too much to expect, though.
All I can say is hang in there and keep trying. Try to work out some measurable goals. If your therapist resists or fails to meet the goals, then you have only one recourse, and that is to fire her and move on.
Good luck. If you find the answer, please let me know. I have the same questions.
Ted
Posted by BeArDedLADY on August 22, 2002, at 17:53:28
In reply to Re: What should I expect from therapy? » tina, posted by Ted on August 22, 2002, at 15:30:37
I have never wasted my hour. My first meeting with my therapist, he told me what to do to "get right," which was to resume something that I gave up years before. I didn't think it important and only mentioned it in a long list of other things. (No, it's not smoking!) Strangely enough, it worked, and I am pleased with the strides I've made.
Since then, he gives me special homework and plans and coping skills. Each session has a little lesson. I talk awhile; he responds to what I said with a story or a vignette, all of which has a lesson.
Sometimes I have appointments when I'm well, and I don't want to cancel, so I go in and tell him about my week, and he tells me how I could've handled things differently for different outcomes.
I think he's brilliant. He's a little Zen, but he never makes me guess. There are no riddles.
What should you expect from therapy? At the very list, you should expect to learn how to handle your fate better. Helping you cope is the very least a therapist should do, and it should happen the first day. I've been to two bad ones and a good one. I think maybe you got a bad one--if you don't think it's helping you.
(My first two came from recommendations. My third came from the phone book. I picked him because he was close!)
beardy
Posted by shar on August 22, 2002, at 19:15:18
In reply to What should I expect from therapy?, posted by tina on August 22, 2002, at 14:00:12
T-
I have been in therapy since my early twenties. It was a way of staying alive long before I began to grow in any significant way. It is still, to some extent, a way of staying alive for me (a pro-life gesture my therapist would say). The "me" that goes to the appointment(s) every week is not the same "me" that has the means, motive and opportunity to do myself in at the drop of a hat.So that's one thing. I don't know how much or if you struggle with suicidal ideation, but there may be a 'you' that feels safer in therapy than out. That, of course, would be more underground for you, probably, not an obvious reason at all.
I would encourage you to believe it is a process (I'm sure you know that already). Plus, if I understand correctly you have a LOT of shit to overcome, heal, grieve, because of your early years. Abuse makes it a different kind of picture, in my opinion. And I know you have these *heavy* depressions or anxieties to deal with. However, there are probably ways to get part of what you want now, while working on the other.
My therapist frames it as a sort of coexistence between the 'me' that will never be convinced that death is not the answer, and the 'me' that needs something in the present to keep on going. The keeping on can take many forms, and include fun, even. Personally, fun tends to elude me because I never really learned how to do it until I started drinking...and that form of fun has its own drawbacks... So, recently, I have been making a good faith effort to acknowledge the good stuff, even if it is limited, and even if it is not what I ultimately want. I still want to see it because that helps me build up the 'me' that wants to live.
Do you feel you are exactly where you were when you started therapy? No changes at all? Or, just not enough?
Finally, setting goals can be a very good thing, because it can help you feel more like you are accomplishing something rather than just spinning your wheels. Goals and choices, imo, really are the foundation for most of what we do in life, whether they are spoken or unspoken. And, getting them out in the open can be really helpful.
And there are tons of other techniques that can be used (I bet you'd like sculpting or psychodrama) to exercise different parts of our minds/spirits.
Good Luck,
Shar
Posted by tina on August 23, 2002, at 8:31:42
In reply to Re: What should I expect from therapy? » tina, posted by shar on August 22, 2002, at 19:15:18
Ok, first, I'm not into sculpture and I really don't know what psychodrama is......:)
Second, I started therapy when I was 20. I'm now 33 (as of yesterday) and I don't feel like I've made any progress whatsoever. I've had 6 different therapists now....psychiatrists, psychologists and social workers. At the beginning, I thought this one was finally going to help because she actually listened to me and validated my feelings which is something none of the others ever did. But, now, six months later, I haven't 'grown' or changed. I can't cope better, I still feel completely trapped and hopeless and yes Shar, I have suicidal ideation on a daily basis. I know deep down that I'm way too chicken to actually kill myself but MAN!! do I wish I could. I am totally convinced that it is the one and only answer to all my problems but knowing that I'll never have the courage to do it just leaves me hopeless and stuck all the time.
I pray for some kind of accident to 'take me out' since I can't do it myself.
I don't remember what fun feels like. I don't know if I ever did.
Posted by BeArDedLADY on August 23, 2002, at 10:46:01
In reply to Re: psychodrama? » shar, posted by tina on August 23, 2002, at 8:31:42
Tina:
While you search for a new therapist (which I do recommend--maybe your primary care doctor or another medical doctor you respect can steer you in the right direction?), if you are strong enough, you should tell your therapist that she was the first to validate your concerns, and you are grateful for that, but that you don't feel you've made any progress at all and that you'd like to hear some ideas--what can you do to cope better, what can you do to improve your mental health, etc.
Do you think you could do this? I don't know that it will accomplish anything, because if your therapist had the knowledge to give you but didn't all these months, you are in the same boat you were in.
I really wish you well. Please don't give up; I know there is someone out there who can help you. Have some hope that you will find him or her.
beardy
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 23, 2002, at 15:56:42
In reply to Re: psychodrama? » shar, posted by tina on August 23, 2002, at 8:31:42
Ask you doc about CBT for Anxiety.. that is what I am starting next week. Its meant to be great from everything I have read about it so far.
Its been developed pretty recently in the UK apparently and isn't widely used in North America yet, but its worth asking about
Nikki
Posted by terra miller on August 23, 2002, at 23:15:02
In reply to What should I expect from therapy?, posted by tina on August 22, 2002, at 14:00:12
> Ok, I've been seeing this psychologist since early february, once a week. That's a lot of hours so far. What kind of progress should I expect?
sometimes you might feel like your goals have changed, or your timetable. at this point, the kind of progress might be measured by how much have you grown to trust your psychologist, for example. when your level of trust grows, then it becomes easier to look deep into yourself because you trust them to go there with you.
>>I don't feel like I've made any headway but when I bring this feeling up, she says "it's a process, it won't get done in a day" but I'm so NOT patient. Shouldn't I be getting some benefit from this by now?
i hated getting that answer. but it is so true. but honestly, i sure wanted to see clear cut results. it was frustrating to me. looking back, i was just getting started at the point you are at (and i go twice a week... not to discourage you at all.) i'm going on 4 years and i have made total boatloads of progress. but the first few months i thought i was going to finish fast.
interestingly enough, realizing that therapy is about "the process" has affected how i deal with all of my life. i am just starting to not look at life as events to conquer (like cramming for college exams) and more as this process of life that i'm on... which makes for a much calmer me and peaceful.
> I guess I'm just frustrated. I've been screwed up for nearly 15 years now and I'm so tired.
i also know what it's like to feel so tired and exhausted. i'm so sorry you are feeling this way, too. if it helps, i truly understand.
>>I just want to be the way I was, spontaneous, adventurous, life-loving and happy.honestly, i really do think this is possible. i have worked very hard in my own therapy with a therapist that i trust. i go twice a week, so you can imagine my exhaustion level, but i am committed to working hard. as a result, i am more free and unafraid and all that you described than i have ever been, and i know that i am not remotely done with my therapy. i truly think it is possible.
take care,
~terra~
Posted by shar on August 24, 2002, at 0:05:41
In reply to Re: psychodrama? » shar, posted by tina on August 23, 2002, at 8:31:42
haha, not a sculptor, eh? got enough psycho-drama of your own, have you?
I can so relate to how you feel. I bet you would get a lot out of setting some goals with your therapist so it isn't just a string of sessions. With goals (even little tiny ones) you have something to 'hang your hat on.'
See, I KNOW since I've known you, you've made some great strides in dealing with some VERY big issues in your life. When I think back to early days, especially on ASH. So, even though it doesn't feel like you're moving ahead, you really are.
That's why goals might help, or even making a point to think back about what you used to do and what you do now in different situations. Or talk to your therapist about this issue...that would probably be great.
It isn't uncommon for us to not notice our progress, I think. There is so much other stuff to focus on.
Just take good care!
xoxo
Shar
Posted by terra miller on August 24, 2002, at 10:27:40
In reply to Re: psychodrama? » tina, posted by shar on August 24, 2002, at 0:05:41
terrific point. i think my therapist is nuts when he says that i've made progress. but when he gives me a clear example, then i can't question him. i have to sit there quiet for a minute and let it sink in that he's right. sometimes we need other people to point out for us what our progress is because we're still so closely involved in the whole process to notice.
terra
Posted by phil on August 24, 2002, at 11:41:36
In reply to we need other perspective, posted by terra miller on August 24, 2002, at 10:27:40
Tina, If you are thinking about suicide daily, you need to get your meds stabilized before spending much more money on therapy.
When you are in that state of mind, you are not going to feel motivated to act on the therapists suggestions.
I think you need the therapy for support right now but to really benefit, you have to get the depression under control.
Psychologists usually don't agree but if they know you are thinking suicide, they should encourage meds.my last .02.
Posted by tina on August 24, 2002, at 13:30:48
In reply to From another angle}}Tina, posted by phil on August 24, 2002, at 11:41:36
thanks Phil but I don't want to go the meds route again. I've had enough of that. I'll keep the klonopin for the anxiety but I'm not taking any more AD's. I've decided it's therapy or nothing. If the therapy doesn't work, I give up.
Posted by tina on August 24, 2002, at 13:33:27
In reply to Re: psychodrama? » tina, posted by shar on August 24, 2002, at 0:05:41
I guess my goals are just too vague. I mean, saying my goal is to be happy or to be fun or to smile more........it just sounds stupid. I basically just want to have no anxiety or depression anymore..........you know, just the little things `wink`
thanks for reminding me of the 'early days' I did make it through those but if any of that stuff happened again, I think I'd lose it now. I just feel so much weaker......know what I mean?
Posted by tina on August 24, 2002, at 13:35:18
In reply to CBT for anxiety, posted by NikkiT2 on August 23, 2002, at 15:56:42
I have tried a little CBT Nik but I just seem to be too negative for it to take hold for long. I can't talk myself into anything let along talk myself out of anxiety.
Posted by tina on August 24, 2002, at 13:37:30
In reply to Re: What should I expect from therapy? » tina, posted by terra miller on August 23, 2002, at 23:15:02
thanks for the insight terra. After 15 years, hope fades quite a bit. Plus, being burned over and over by therapists doesn't help my trust levels either. It's just a lot of money wasted if I don't see results. Ya know?
Posted by judy1 on August 24, 2002, at 13:46:22
In reply to Re: What should I expect from therapy? » terra miller, posted by tina on August 24, 2002, at 13:37:30
Plus, being burned over and over by therapists doesn't help my trust levels either. It's just a lot of money wasted if I don't see results.
The first result you will see is an actual bond of trust between you and your therapist. That is a huge step if you've been burned in the past (as have I) by shrinks or therapists. Once you achieve this (I'm into a year and haven't quite gotten there- but I'm close)- it all falls into place. And what a wonderful process that must be to openly share your pain with another and allow them in to help you. I wish you all the best- judy
Posted by Medusa on August 25, 2002, at 12:38:03
In reply to What should I expect from therapy?, posted by tina on August 22, 2002, at 14:00:12
> That's a lot of hours so far.
yeah that's a lot of hours.
I haven't had any more luck with therapy than you have. I'm not even trying therapy right now - I can't waste that time and money - and I know I need good therapy. I just can't get there.
about being 'negative' in relation to CBT, I think I know what you mean. I've never been able to "get positive" with that stuff. Not that I can even concentrate long enough to do it. But think about trying to "get neutral" or "differently negative".
about goals, you need measurable goals. do you have issues with self-care, like making an appointment for a teethcleaning and following through? or ... I don't know you at all, no idea where you feel the depression + anxiety manifest themselves. but most people with these, have some practical stuff that has to be done.
there's a current thread on depression on
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/soil/nph-ind.cgi?type=con&random=7584titled something like "politically incorrect" and has a lot of interesting views, one of which is to try to "do good things" rather than "try to feel good". Something like that. Not to be Mother Theresa, but to do stuff and then you'll feel ... maybe ... better.
But. I don't know your depression, so of course I'm projecting all my own special brands of issues on to you.
M
Posted by Kath on August 26, 2002, at 16:27:12
In reply to very sorry » tina, posted by BeArDedLADY on August 23, 2002, at 10:46:01
Tina - this sounds like a really good idea. What if you choose ONE thing that you'd like to work on for the week after your appointment? When I went to a psychiatrist for 3 years when my ex left me, I didn't really notice much - mostly I talked; he listened. Occassionally, he would point out something or say some little thing. I will tell you - by the end of the 3 years I had made big headway.
The same with the last psychiatrist I went to about a year ago or something - maybe more, can't remember - I'd talk & she'd listen. Sometimes she'd ask me something or tell me about an un-named patient she'd worked with & what had happened in their life. I didn't really notice change happening directly related to her work with me. However, I was doing a lot of work through my codependents group, so I WAS actually changing.I'll be interested to see what happens. It must be very frustrating for you. Keep in mind, though, that you HAVE gone out (& surprised yourself) & had a good time, no? Would you have done that before?
((((( you))))) :-) Kath
> Tina:
>
> While you search for a new therapist (which I do recommend--maybe your primary care doctor or another medical doctor you respect can steer you in the right direction?), if you are strong enough, you should tell your therapist that she was the first to validate your concerns, and you are grateful for that, but that you don't feel you've made any progress at all and that you'd like to hear some ideas--what can you do to cope better, what can you do to improve your mental health, etc.
>
> Do you think you could do this? I don't know that it will accomplish anything, because if your therapist had the knowledge to give you but didn't all these months, you are in the same boat you were in.
>
> I really wish you well. Please don't give up; I know there is someone out there who can help you. Have some hope that you will find him or her.
>
> beardy
Posted by Kath on August 26, 2002, at 16:34:11
In reply to Re: What should I expect from therapy? » terra miller, posted by tina on August 24, 2002, at 13:37:30
Tina - it sounds like you are building trust with this particular psychiatrist. Re $ - if it's a psychiatrist, OHIP whould cover it.
hugs, Kath
> thanks for the insight terra. After 15 years, hope fades quite a bit. Plus, being burned over and over by therapists doesn't help my trust levels either. It's just a lot of money wasted if I don't see results. Ya know?
Posted by Kath on August 26, 2002, at 16:42:46
In reply to Re: What should I expect from therapy?, posted by Medusa on August 25, 2002, at 12:38:03
Tina - you said you don't want to do meds again. You know, Elissa (daughter) has suffered from depression for years. About - I think it was a year ago, she read a book - something like 7 weeks to cure your depression. She followed the diet in it. It cut WAY back on carbohydrates & cut out sugars, etc. It was very, very hard for her, because she had a VERY limited supply of money, and pastas & bread were a major part of her diet. She didn't notice a huge difference at first, but as time went on (weeks & weeks) she did start to notice a difference. Now, she still doesn't eat sugar. If she DOES - she gets VERY DOWN - I believe it's the next day. I can get details if anyone is interested. Friends will say to her at a party "Hey, Lily, just a little bit won't hurt - it tastes so good." and she'll say "You know what - if I do eat it, I'll come over & spend the day with you tomorrow & you can decide if you think it was worth it or NOT."
She says she just can't believe how rotten she feels if she has sugar.
hugs, Kath
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