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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sar on November 27, 2001, at 15:20:00
In reply to Hi you Krazy Diamond!, posted by Greg A. on November 27, 2001, at 12:33:38
you're back! now all we have to do is find Wendy...
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 27, 2001, at 19:55:01
In reply to Hi you Krazy Diamond!, posted by Greg A. on November 27, 2001, at 12:33:38
Thank you - I like my nickname! ;)
Thanks for being so honest. That really helps. Yeah, if we can not drink every day it really helps because our tolerance doesn't build up. I so long to be able to have a glass or two of cognac before bed. I am determined to get to this point someday (you know, be able to do that even if I decide not to drink at all). We are seriously considering children now and that will out an automatic stop to drinking for me, but I would certainly rather gain control "on my own" beforehand. I would just feel better.
Haven't had a drink for three days now. It's weird - I don't really feel different with or without the alcohol. It's mostly a matter of not being anxious at night.
Keep us up to date. I personally am not going to stress too much over the holidays - holidays can be so stressful anyway.
- K.
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 27, 2001, at 19:55:37
In reply to Kristi! Kat!, posted by sar on November 27, 2001, at 15:20:00
Posted by Mair on November 27, 2001, at 22:22:28
In reply to Wendy where are you? :) (nm), posted by Krazy Kat on November 27, 2001, at 19:55:37
Posted by wendy b. on November 29, 2001, at 0:03:09
In reply to Wendy where are you? :) (nm), posted by Krazy Kat on November 27, 2001, at 19:55:37
I'm still here, but you're gone to Spain! Thank you guys for checking in. I have been "going through something," high level of anxiety, mostly. Leads me to think things are just chaotic in my life, like I'm being pulled in too many directions. So I find I have to close up shop, in a way, to re-center and get a focus. Minimum of talk to others is a symptom of this.
Also, had a bad session with my therapist last week, and I felt really upset by it. Guess I rely on it to such an extent to validate me and my experience, that when it goes wrong, I think the world is coming to an end. Which of course it's not... I guess I'll have to learn to take the chunky with the smooth (to paraphrase one of my brit faves, Billy Bragg). As with any other human relationship. She and I were just kind of spitting at each other. I thought she was being insensitive, she thought I was feeling sorry for myself. Or I think that's what she thought, it's so hard to be in someone else's head, when your own isn't screwed on so tight... She said something like: "I'm not going to sit by and allow you (or watch you) become a VICTIM of this illness..." Because I was crying. And maybe I WAS feeling sorry for myself. So the fuck what? I don't know, just stepping into her office makes me feel like crying. Perhaps it's a good thing. I feel safe enough there to just wail. She knows that (we talked yesterday). Sometimes I wonder about this kind of 'affect,' though, i.e., related to affectation, in other words, I go in and display my symptom. Like it's somehow expected. Like I expect it, or is it really real? Is it just produced on cue, like Pavlov's dogs? Salivate, god damn it...
Anyway, I worked it out in my tiny pea-sized brain. I'm feeling the therp's acting like (saying things like) my sister, and I don't like or want that. (Dr. Freud: "So zee transference is coming out, yah!"). So I mulled it over during the holiday, and now things are better. Getting focused... my new mantra...
more anon,
W.
Posted by mair on November 29, 2001, at 7:12:45
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :), posted by wendy b. on November 29, 2001, at 0:03:09
"Sometimes I wonder about this kind of 'affect,' though, i.e., related to affectation, in other words, I go in and display my symptom. Like it's somehow expected. Like I expect it, or is it really real? Is it just produced on cue"
Wendy - I've wondered the same thing. I'm always more anxious on days when I'm going to see my therapist, and not infrequently by the time I've reached her office, I'm in worse shape than I was 24 hours before. It's not a forum as suited for discussing what's good in our lives as what's wrong. I've also noticed however that even thinking about it in these terms is a trap for me. It reinforces my periodic tendency to feel that I've created (or at least am perpetuating) my depression, and that I ought to be able to will it away.
Mair
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 29, 2001, at 10:09:24
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :), posted by wendy b. on November 29, 2001, at 0:03:09
Wendy:
Your writing is always so clear. I'm sorry you've been going through this. Usually when we "disappear" for awhile from here, it seems to be either because we're feeling too bad, or too good.
Like Mair, I get anxious on the day I meet with my pdoc. In fact, I didn't go in to see him today (just couldn't take the two hour train ride), and am going to speak to him on the phone instead.
I think we need to keep in mind that they're just meant to help us look at things from a different perspective. We certainly shouldn't let ourselves be overly influenced by them. I have a problem - despite my low self-esteem, which makes no sense - of thinking I'm more intelligent than most people anyway, so I always take advice/suggestions with a grain of salt. This can't be good.
Sounds like you've come to a good point with it though.
- K.
Posted by susan C on November 29, 2001, at 11:56:49
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :) » wendy b., posted by Krazy Kat on November 29, 2001, at 10:09:24
hi,
this is why this board is so good, to read, somewhere, sometime, some one is up down or inbetween. And KK, I think most everyone here is very smart. It perhaps is a component of our illness?
I have a cold/laryengitis But even with it, emotionally, i feel better than i have in a long time.
squeeking mouse in a snow storm
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 29, 2001, at 13:10:33
In reply to hi all, posted by susan C on November 29, 2001, at 11:56:49
Yes, I think this board is very intelligent. And I think I am, too. ;) So there to my low esteem.
I also think MM is right - it Is a component of our illness.
I tried other boards last spring and they were all too mushy and boring. A lot of folks seemed to be on way too much AD's. ;) I know - I'm mean.
Posted by wendy b. on November 29, 2001, at 14:58:29
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :), posted by mair on November 29, 2001, at 7:12:45
> "Sometimes I wonder about this kind of 'affect,' though, i.e., related to affectation, in other words, I go in and display my symptom. Like it's somehow expected. Like I expect it, or is it really real? Is it just produced on cue"
>
> Wendy - I've wondered the same thing. I'm always more anxious on days when I'm going to see my therapist, and not infrequently by the time I've reached her office, I'm in worse shape than I was 24 hours before. It's not a forum as suited for discussing what's good in our lives as what's wrong.That's it exactly. So I gear up to fall apart when I go in. Not all the time, but more so recently. I mean, where is the line between it being good (getting it all out, feeling safe enough to do it), and it being counter-productive (focusing too much on negatives in our lives)? I've been trying to do some of the CBT stuff, even though I don't in my heart-of-hearts believe in it. I've been doing the "self-talk" especially. The idea is, if I repeat words of power and strength, over time they might produce more of those qualities in me...
>I've also noticed however that even thinking about it in these terms is a trap for me. It reinforces my periodic tendency to feel that I've created (or at least am perpetuating) my depression, and that I ought to be able to will it away.
Yes, that's what I mean about CBT. I can't just be some kind of robot. Put on a happy face, and pronounce happy, positive words, and everything will be fine...> Mair
Thanks for replying, I like hearing from you...Wendy
Posted by wendy b. on November 29, 2001, at 15:26:37
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :) » wendy b., posted by Krazy Kat on November 29, 2001, at 10:09:24
> Wendy:
>
> Your writing is always so clear. I'm sorry you've been going through this. Usually when we "disappear" for awhile from here, it seems to be either because we're feeling too bad, or too good.
Thank you for the comment about my writing... you and Sar and I should really do our writing stuff and send each other drafts. AFTER your trip to Spain, though, hope this catches you before you go, and how long will you be gone? I'll miss your cheery posts...
> Like Mair, I get anxious on the day I meet with my pdoc. In fact, I didn't go in to see him today (just couldn't take the two hour train ride), and am going to speak to him on the phone instead.
I know what you mean about anxiety on the day of the appointment. Sometimes I'm happy to go in, other times I think I just want to be alone and not go out. But then I realize that when I can get to the appointment on a day like that, that's part of the therapy, too. Sometimes there is a flurry of cancellations. It's only ever because of schedule conflicts with my daughter's life and happenings, or her staying home from school because of illness. The therp got annoyed about it the day of the bad session, too, so that was on top of the other stuff. She was 'regaling' me (or so I thought) about keeping 'commitments' that I had made with other people. Like I didn't know what that meant or something...
> I think we need to keep in mind that they're just meant to help us look at things from a different perspective. We certainly shouldn't let ourselves be overly influenced by themYes, I really look up to her in a lot of ways. Though I know that's dangerous. She's just been so helpful to me in the past, I couldn't shake the feelings produced by the bad session, I felt she was annoyed with me, I thought she was being insensitive, etc, etc. Sometimes I just have to tell the voice inside me to shut up for awhile, too noisy in there... tomorrow I will, invariably, feel differently about the situation. And that's the one constant, the changeability of my mood! Ironic as it is...
>I have a problem - despite my low self-esteem, which makes no sense - of thinking I'm more intelligent than most people anyway, so I always take advice/suggestions with a grain of salt. This can't be good.Of course not, but who cares? And you and Susan are right, the people who show up here on the board ARE more intelligent than your average bear (Yogi reference.. "How 'bout stealing some pic-i-nic baskets, Boo Boo?")
I guess the better thing would be moderation, I usually don't listen to people either, and just do what I feel is right. Because I AM smarter than they are *about me*. But I go back and forth over whether I don't listen to people enough, and hear the good suggestions, or the other side, which is: I've been listening to other people my whole life, being a GOOD GIRL, and so far, it hasn't helped... or it hasn't helped *much* I guess. The therp says I gotta break out... true, I think.
> Sounds like you've come to a good point with it though.Yes, it's better. Xanax to the rescue! Seriously, though, I have been influenced by my Buddhist friend enough so that I am chanting, not regularly, but some. It DOES help me remain focused... the goal right now.
>
> - K.Hope this catches you before you fly to Spain!
Wendy
Posted by wendy b. on November 29, 2001, at 15:35:33
In reply to hi all, posted by susan C on November 29, 2001, at 11:56:49
> hi,
>
> this is why this board is so good, to read, somewhere, sometime, some one is up down or inbetween.You're always gonna get at least ONE of those!! Maybe for some people, all in the same day, too...
>And KK, I think most everyone here is very smart. It perhaps is a component of our illness?My therapist (who I can't seem to stop talking about in this thread, hmmmm..) says this is true. That BP people are exceptionally creative, bright, well-read, in most cases... I get the feeling on PB and PSB, that the people here are intensely curious, and sort of have the need to know more hard-wired into their brains. Very intense group...
>
> I have a cold/laryengitis But even with it, emotionally, i feel better than i have in a long time.This is GREAT, Susan... I'm so happy for you. What do you attribute it to, getting off Keppra??, or something more mundane? Maybe the snow is good for your mood? Seriously...
I have a cold too, it's making me very tired.
> squeeking mouse in a snow stormquiet Boo Boo on a break from childcare...
Posted by juliedealer on November 29, 2001, at 17:45:56
In reply to Re: Hi you Krazy Diamond! » Greg A., posted by Krazy Kat on November 27, 2001, at 19:55:01
Posted by Krazy Kat on November 29, 2001, at 18:10:03
In reply to my messages don't post (nm), posted by juliedealer on November 29, 2001, at 17:45:56
Posted by Greg A. on November 29, 2001, at 21:47:42
In reply to my messages don't post (nm), posted by juliedealer on November 29, 2001, at 17:45:56
Posted by sar on November 30, 2001, at 15:57:03
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :), posted by wendy b. on November 29, 2001, at 0:03:09
welcome back!
this is just an idea, but do you think your therapist is doing kind of a tough-love thing? a friend of mine hated it when her therapist would say "poor baby" (not sarcastically) and "you must have felt so weak"...etc. My friend wanted someone to be tougher on her.
when i had a psych, i always felt all pent-up and lump-in-throat when i walked in. i think you should be able to speak and act freely, without fear.
love,
sar
Posted by Mair on November 30, 2001, at 23:20:54
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :) » mair, posted by wendy b. on November 29, 2001, at 14:58:29
Wendy - I know what you mean about CBT. My therapist used to have me work through a thought process to evaluate worst case scenarios for things that were bothering me. Like I'd fear that something awful was going to happen at work (like I would or had screwed something up) and we'd go through this whole process to evaluate how realistic my fear was and what it's likely result would be. It helped put into perspective problems that seemed huge but were certainly not catastrophic. This was very helpful for anxiety, but pretty worthless for the much more subjective negative feelings about myself. It certainly didn't help me like myself to any greater degree. The positive self talk was beyond my reach because I had trouble identifying a positive thought or occurrence. Just maybe beyond my limited grasp. Are you supposed to be giving yourself pep talks?
Mair
Posted by wendy b. on December 1, 2001, at 14:44:30
In reply to Wendy Re: CBT, posted by Mair on November 30, 2001, at 23:20:54
> Wendy - I know what you mean about CBT. My therapist used to have me work through a thought process to evaluate worst case scenarios for things that were bothering me. Like I'd fear that something awful was going to happen at work (like I would or had screwed something up) and we'd go through this whole process to evaluate how realistic my fear was and what it's likely result would be. It helped put into perspective problems that seemed huge but were certainly not catastrophic. This was very helpful for anxiety, but pretty worthless for the much more subjective negative feelings about myself. It certainly didn't help me like myself to any greater degree. The positive self talk was beyond my reach because I had trouble identifying a positive thought or occurrence. Just maybe beyond my limited grasp. Are you supposed to be giving yourself pep talks?
>
> Mair
Problem is, I don't see anybody else out there giving me any! I don't know! It's certainly the question of the week for me. I know what you mean about CBT not really getting at the underlying low-to-nonexistent self-esteem... Saying the words is one thing, believing in them is quite another.
W.
Posted by wendy b. on December 1, 2001, at 14:57:28
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :), posted by sar on November 30, 2001, at 15:57:03
> welcome back!
>
> this is just an idea, but do you think your therapist is doing kind of a tough-love thing? a friend of mine hated it when her therapist would say "poor baby" (not sarcastically) and "you must have felt so weak"...etc. My friend wanted someone to be tougher on her.
>
> when i had a psych, i always felt all pent-up and lump-in-throat when i walked in. i think you should be able to speak and act freely, without fear.
>
> love,
> sar
That's what I think, too. I hate tough-love kinds of menthods, though. I think tough love is a passive-aggressive ploy, and not good therapeutic strategy for people whose inner anxieties are high. For me, it backfires.
My last shrink was very empathic (the new therapo-feelgoodio coinage for 'empathetic'???). She listened and said things like "oh, that must have been very hard for you," or, "That sounds awful..." Which, for someone like me, whose feelings were scrunched from a very early age, was reassuring and calming. She helped me identify basic feelings of loss and grief. I had never had my feelings validated by anyone before in my life.Bad news is that I started about 30 years later than I should have. Good news is that I expect the next decade to go a little more smoothly.
Thanks for your message, love ya,
W.
Posted by Mair on December 1, 2001, at 22:00:46
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :) » sar, posted by wendy b. on December 1, 2001, at 14:57:28
Wendy - Empathic? That's one of those words for sure but so is "validate," a word i never used in any context that didn't involve a parking garage stub, until I entered therapy. My therapist is always talking about how I "experience" things. I never used to use "experience" as a verb a lot - some maybe but not in quite the same way.
Can we come up with some others?
Mair
Posted by sar on December 2, 2001, at 10:47:12
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :) - therapist's words » wendy b., posted by Mair on December 1, 2001, at 22:00:46
"intellectualizing"
"latent anger"
"bibliotherapy"
"goals"
"issues"
Posted by Mair on December 2, 2001, at 13:53:48
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :) - therapist's words, posted by sar on December 2, 2001, at 10:47:12
> Sar - what is "bibliotherapy?" Is this reading self-help books or what? It's a new word to me.
Mair
PS I've always loved the word "intellectualize," although I do have to admit I've found it's a more useful word in a therapeutic milieu than otherwise.
Posted by sar on December 2, 2001, at 16:03:48
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :) - therapist's words » sar, posted by Mair on December 2, 2001, at 13:53:48
> > Sar - what is "bibliotherapy?" Is this reading self-help books or what? It's a new word to me.
>
> Mair
>
> PS I've always loved the word "intellectualize," although I do have to admit I've found it's a more useful word in a therapeutic milieu than otherwise.Mair,
i had a really corny therapist doing her internship at a free clinic and when i told her i liked to read about psychology, she said, "Oh! Bibliotherapy!"
then i had a really smart but somewhat harsh pscyoanalyst who accused me of intellectualizing everything. she said that i have a "rational ego"...she thought that i didn't talk about my feelings enough, or that when i did, i "intellectualized" them. (admittedly, i do...but that's just my style. if i didn't put some sort of rational bandage on them, they'd bleed all over the place.)
Posted by shelliR on December 2, 2001, at 16:12:54
In reply to Re: Wendy where are you? :) - therapist's words » Mair, posted by sar on December 2, 2001, at 16:03:48
boundaries.
That's my good friend's favorite. He's always saying, "Now what's that word your therapist uses all the time about needing space?
Oh yea, boundaries.shelli
Posted by kiddo on December 2, 2001, at 19:32:28
In reply to therapist's words, posted by shelliR on December 2, 2001, at 16:12:54
"Closure"
ARGHHHH.... I hate that word. I also told my pdoc that if he ever used it, I'd get up and leave. I think that word (other than love) is one of the most overused words in the dictionary-I'd like to pop the chops of the first person responsibile for using it in a therapeutic sense.
> boundaries.
>
> That's my good friend's favorite. He's always saying, "Now what's that word your therapist uses all the time about needing space?
> Oh yea, boundaries.
>
> shelli
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