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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on July 24, 2008, at 8:13:38
I could write a novel about what has happened between myself and my t (5 years)...I went to him for a pretty unusual problem (he is also a pastor); my church voted me out of membership, and journeyed with for for 18 months while I fought the spirtually abusive system. That was over 4 years ago, but I have stayed with him.
Divorced after 31 years of abuse....
I fell in love with him, and we have discussed it so many times. Unfortunately he has discussed his feelings for me (in a lesser erotic way, LOL)
Case in point: (A few of his 100's of leading on commnts): "If I were not married, I would go for it. You are in my heart and in my head. If I gave you the green light, would you go for it?" He has given me so many green lights, I should be blind.
It is excruciating for me. He actually asked me if he had been leading me on (3 or 4 times); he actually said: "When this is over, I don't want you to have to say: He led me on, that ****ard....
SO; he KNOWS what he is doing and has done.
I know I should leave for my own sanity, but I don't want to just yet. I KNOW I should give him my: How dare you lead me on for YEARS??!! How can you say you are "happily married?" People are what they DO, not what they say....and what you have DONE has spoken volumes.
If you think you have been faithful, then you are delusional. If your congregation, colleagues and wife could hear what you say to me and SEE what you have done (sexualizing our relationship).....what would be their response?!
How dare you have your cake and eat it too....you get to play with me, and then go home to your cozy little life.
I go home alone and try to figure out: "What just happened here?"
Shame on you. There is tons more, but that is it in a nutshell.
Needed to vent, and hugs and thankyou's.
Sassy
P.S. He used to hug me, but won't do it now (too long to go into here); talk about confusion and frustration...to me a hug is a welcome and glad to see ya! NOT sexual....to him it IS sexual; he days he only hugs little old ladies and kids...he never should have started hugging me; now I am deprived of something that was nice.
Posted by backseatdriver on July 24, 2008, at 10:41:31
In reply to I Love My T.....I Hate My T/Twisted in Knots, posted by sassyfrancesca on July 24, 2008, at 8:13:38
Hi Sassy -
Just a quick note to say, what a terrible situation.
If it is any consolation, I doubt his home life is all that cozy.
His wife probably does her best with him, or at least has tried to, and nothing's ever been good enough, and she probably thinks this is her fault. On some level, I bet he likes to keep her off-balance. It makes him feel more secure himself.
He's keeping you off-balance too. I wonder what would happen if you went to your next session and did something to demonstrate your autonomy. Not in an angry way -- that would just be homage -- but in a loving way that is resigned to your limits and his.
You wouldn't necessarily have to believe this -- just try on the role.
If he comes back at you with an undermining remark, then you have confirmation that he's doing things to keep you in this difficult dependent state. That isn't just you. That, for his own reasons, he needs you to be dependent and that he needs to be in control of your growth because he knows that if you grow, you might also grow *away* from him.
Yours,
BSDPS. If he thinks his hugs are sexual, AND he reserves them only for little old ladies and kids... well, I don't know about that. ;)
Posted by Phillipa on July 24, 2008, at 10:48:44
In reply to Re: I Love My T.....I Hate My T/Twisted in Knots, posted by backseatdriver on July 24, 2008, at 10:41:31
Doesn't sound like he has boundaries and agree with above poster. Phillipa
Posted by Lemonaide on July 24, 2008, at 11:21:53
In reply to I Love My T.....I Hate My T/Twisted in Knots, posted by sassyfrancesca on July 24, 2008, at 8:13:38
Hey Sassy Twin,
I know you are in love with him, I have no doubts about that.
But you know what, I hope this is okay to say, you know I want the best for you, I really do.
But he doesn't deserve you Sassy. He is not only doing the things he does, but look at what he is doing to his wife. You deserve someone to treat you like you are the only one in the world. You are way better looking than anyone he could ever hope for. Then to add your talents, and spunk. I think you deserve someone so much better and I think if you weren't hoping for something major to happen with your T (like him leaving his wife), you would find that lucky guy. I am sure you friends feel like I do, wanting to turn him in for what he has done. I would rather you leave him though in a better way.
You know i have been in a simular situation with my T, and I know it hurts like HELL to leave, but I did it, I did it for me. You have also done what I am doing, trying to make a better life for myself by going back to school. You have so much going for you and it pains me to see you give all of that up for your T. I believe he is holding you back from having the fulfilling life you deserve.
I also know the love/hate feelings. I feel that way about my old T. I will be meeting with him soon to talk about how he hurt me. My current T said that coming from my past, I am sensitive to rejection and when my old T said he wouldn't come to my funeral if I died, it devastated me. I trusted him and he kicked me in the gut because of his fear of his feelings. My current T is meeting with him this week to discuss this before I see my old T.
I saw my current two days after I fired my old one. I am not sure if I would be alive today if I didn't have a soft place to fall after I fired my old T. You know he meant the world to me, but that put me in a very vulnerable position.Your T is hurting you deeper than I think you probably know. How can someone love you when they are willing to hurt you like this? He is playing with fire and after all the abuse you have survived, SHAME ON HIM.
I know you love him, and I don't want to dog him because it probably hurts you too to hear it. But sassy, you should move on, get a new T and have your life fulfilled. So many good guys are looking for a babe like yourself, but you have to be open to the possibility. You need a T to help you with the things you lost in your life. Your current T is not being objective like he should be. You need that to heal you life.
You take care of yourself. I know I am not writing anything you don't know in your heart. Please be kind for yourself. Life live to your potential.
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2008, at 20:30:03
In reply to I Love My T.....I Hate My T/Twisted in Knots, posted by sassyfrancesca on July 24, 2008, at 8:13:38
It seems like in some ways he is holding boundaries. They may not be in the same place as the textbooks might describe. But he's been pretty consistent in telling you that he's not going to act on any feelings he might have. Maybe because he's married. Maybe because his career would be on the line. Maybe both.
If it were me, I wouldn't hold too much hope for him breaking the boundaries he has set. If anything, it sounds like he's tightening up. For example, by not allowing hugs now.
Your experience with him is long enough to have a good idea how it will go in the future. If his life circumstances don't change, he's not going to go any further than he's already gone.
If you are finding that the benefits of your current relationship with him is worth the cost, then it makes sense to stay with him. But it sounds to me like he's signaling loud and clear that this is it. If he's seductive or flirtatious now, he may well continue to be. But he's not going to cross the line from seduction to fulfillment. He's not going to include you in his real life. He's said if he weren't married (and likely if he weren't likely to lose his license) he might go for it. But he is married. So he won't.
It may not be ideal boundaries. But it is boundaries.
Is where the boundaries are right now sufficient to be worth the expense and emotional investment?
Posted by sassyfrancesca on July 25, 2008, at 6:29:53
In reply to Re: I Love My T.....I Hate My T/Twisted in Knots, posted by Lemonaide on July 24, 2008, at 11:21:53
The problem is that sometimes he has boundaries and other times....not
He has come on to me both verbally AND physically. He has wrestled with me more than once. Only a month ago (ready?).....he was LYING on top of me, and yet he has a problem with a hug...see
"Crazy-making" behavior.
He has said: (he is), "torn, confused, scared and conflicted."
At the American Counseling Association's convention a few months ago; he said he saw me 5 times (I didn't see him), but he didnt' speak (rules, LOL, BUT
He was looking for me at the opening dance and said he would have "danced with me."
Is that not bizarre? He wouldn't speak to me, but he WOULD dance with me?
Posted by Dinah on July 25, 2008, at 9:15:52
In reply to Re: T: Lying on top of me!-Bizarre stuff, posted by sassyfrancesca on July 25, 2008, at 6:29:53
That does sound odd. Does he seem to be moving toward the crumbling of his defenses? Have things been getting more intimate lately?
My intuitive feel would have been that he wouldn't be overly willing to bend boundaries at a convention full of his peers that he isn't willing to break in the privacy of the therapy room. I'm sure he would have liked to ask you to dance.
But how on earth did he come to lie on top of you when he won't even hug you? It's hard for me to picture a graceful situation to get from hands off to lying on top. I keep having these unpleasant mental images involving some sort of lunge and grab. You mentioned wrestling. Was he trying to teach you some holds? Self defense? If so, perhaps he should leave that to someone who is a professional in that field if he doesn't want to give mixed messages.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on July 25, 2008, at 10:26:59
In reply to Re: T: Lying on top of me!-Bizarre stuff » sassyfrancesca, posted by Dinah on July 25, 2008, at 9:15:52
> That does sound odd. Does he seem to be moving toward the crumbling of his defenses? Have things been getting more intimate lately? Things have been moving towards more intimacy for the past FOUR years.
Verbally....and....physically.
> hi
> My intuitive feel would have been that he wouldn't be overly willing to bend boundaries at a convention full of his peers....but he WAS....as in, dancing with me.....that he isn't willing to break in the privacy of the therapy room. I'm sure he would have liked to ask you to dance. He said that if he had "found me, he would have asked me to dance."
And....he spent a half an hour LOOKING for me (?); I was surprised he admitted that.
>
> But how on earth did he come to lie on top of you when he won't even hug you? Sometimes I will playfully bump into him, and he takes it from there....he has pinned my arms behind my back, pushed me onto the couch as part of that playful stuff.It's hard for me to picture a graceful situation to get from hands off to lying on top.
Exactly.
I keep having these unpleasant mental images involving some sort of lunge and grab. You mentioned wrestling. Was he trying to teach you some holds? Self defense?
No, this was playful physical touch/jostling.
If so, perhaps he should leave that to someone who is a professional in that field if he doesn't want to give mixed messages.
He has given me 100's and 100's of mixed messages.
He told me once: "Bring it on." I didn't.....the amazing thing is the miracle is:
I haven't acted on my feelings in SPITE of all of his come-ons. I wonder how many human beings could withstand (loving someone), and not acting on their feelings, even tho someone is leading them on...bigtime.
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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