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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by OzLand on August 10, 2007, at 21:33:52
I was so anxious before therapy I could not look at my therapist. Right off he wanted to address the issue I emailed him about re shorting me time and starting late and ending therapy on time. He said first he was not aware he did this, and so my session today was free. That almost made me feel worse; it was not my intent to get a free session.
Then he said he has not yet figured out what it is about. He said it could be some of the things I have said about csa, and even though he is not a rooky, it could be that he has felt put off or felt I raise issues that he feels are difficult for him to handle. By this point I was sobbing which I really hate doing and told him I have felt so horrible feeling like I need him. I don't like that feeling at all.
He told me I had to listen to him (I had closed my eyes), and he kept repeating to listen to him. He said I should not think I will drive him away or repulse him as he is committed to working with me, and we will work through things together. He will work on being more in tuned with what is going on with him too. He told me he is very selective with who he is willing to work with in therapy. And he said he can feel my pain and feelings, and so he feels connected to me. He said I let him know my pain, and he does not want me to be lonely and alone inside.
He also said I can be a crudmdugeion and explained that on the surface I keep him at arms length, but he said that at my core he sees a sweet, caring, and thoughtful person. He said I care about people other people would rather see taken out and shot. He then told me how he volunteers at a Jewish Center doing therapy with indigent people, and this is his way of giving back to the community. He sees I do that too and finds it to be something nice and genuine about me.
I gave him a picture of me when I was age 8 when I tried to hang myself that summer. He said I looked like such a sweet girl. I also gave him a picture of me when I was first married and really thin, too thin--into eating disorder then. He looked at it long and hard, and I could see he recognized I was not just skinny; I looked like someone with an eating disorder. So, I told him I had not eaten since Tuesday. He asked questions about early years from jr high and high school, and I told him about how I used to run 10 to 15 miles per day and hardly ate. He told me that he will set me up with their dietician to do things right as I am correct it will get out of contol again. He said for now eat six snacks a day. I will try. He said I will lose weight but not by not eating, I know he is right. I will end up with a distorted body image again.
I asked him if he disliked me, and he said no he does not dislike me. Of course he doesn't say he likes me either. He talks about welcoming working with me as I am motivated and let him see things, at least a little, about me. He said my faces I make which he laughs at convey more about me nonverbally and what is going on with me.
So, he thinks it is the csa not me personally that may be pushing some buttons. He said the last session on Wednesday he felt very connected to me when I started to talk about some of the sexual arrousal and what seems like abuse in the present and how confusing it is for me as well as upsetting. So, ending early he could see how it felt like he steped on my toes. He talks about the therapeutic frame and all, and I know what he means. I know I am a patient to him and that this does not mean he doesn't care. He has proper boundaries which I do appreciate.
A fantasy could be that he likes me better than all his other patients, but if he were to say yes it's true, I would be freaked and run 100 mile in the other direction. I know maintaining the frame and boundaries is important, and I appreciate he does this. When I hear others talk about therapists who don't do this, I get upset because in the long run it hurts the patient.
So there it is; part of me is now scared of saying anything that might really sound traumatic or horrible. I could see he felt pain for me when he looked at the picture of me at age 8 with another girl. We are holding hands back to back and looking at the camera. I feel really bad looking at that picture, the only one I have come across from the stuff from my mother's house. I still have not unpacked all her stuff from when she died. I know there are many more pictures from that summer after my grandfather died, and we are up in the wilderness.
Thanks to everyone for being supportive. I am rather sad and confused right now. I think I believe him that he won't give up on me no matter what. He has this picture on a book shelf of him and his three daughters who are in their 20's it looks like. I think to myself, I never knew my father growing up and didn't really know what it was like to have a father. So I wonder to myself; what would it have been like to have a father like him who really cares. I've never told him this.
OzLand
Posted by gardenergirl on August 10, 2007, at 21:54:57
In reply to Therapist is not upset with me, but (triggerlong), posted by OzLand on August 10, 2007, at 21:33:52
Wow, that sounds like an intense session, but a very productive one. Your T sounds like a keeper--caring, honest, respectful, empathetic...I'm glad.
You mentioned a couple of thoughts/fantasies that I also have about my T. I can really relate to what you said. I've wanted to feel like his favorite or special client for a long time, and I also know that it's important for him not to say it's true or not. He does validate my feelings about it, though, in a way that makes me feel heard and that it's okay. And the father thing...I have that, too, though for a long time I would think to myself, "Run away, run away!" because I felt stupid or something. But I finally told him, and he seemed sort of moved. It was just a moment, but I felt it. And again, it was okay.
I'm glad your T is also okay with your feelings and is honest about when he might struggle a bit more. That shows how much he respects the frame and also how much he respects you that he would readily acknowledge when he makes a mistake or is "off" in some way.
I'm glad he referred you to a dietitian. I hope it's someone familiar with working with clients with eating disorders. I wish you strength and support in working that out.
Take care,
gg
Posted by OzLand on August 10, 2007, at 22:17:07
In reply to Re: Therapist is not upset with me, but (triggerl » OzLand, posted by gardenergirl on August 10, 2007, at 21:54:57
Thanks gg; my therapist is an expert in eating disorders as well as has expertise in trauma and abuse. So, yes he knows what he is doing. I just never told him about eating disorder. Evan as a patient at Menningers I never told them, and they never knew. I was a depressed f*tso when I went there as a patient, and so when I lost weight, it seemed like a good thing. As best I could I did not starve myself or over exercise, and so it did not get out of control then. I got to a decent weight and stayed there until around 2001 when I started feeling depresed and started to become f*tso again. I am overweight but not as bad as it would seem to others. To me I am horrible looking. So, I will wait to try proper dieting until when as my therapist says I am more emotionally stable. I wonder if he thinks I should add any meds. We didn;t get to that. Before he wanted to add Lithium to the Parnate he prescribed and that I take to help me stabilize my mood. I hate more meds as I am on a bootload of meds for physical stuff. Thanks.
Glad to hear you have a good therapist too. I am really afraid of what if I start feeling like I would like to have sex with him. He is good looking and caring and has a sense of humor. He mentioned that one time when I first starting seeing him, and I forget the context now, but I freaked at the prospect of ever saying that to him. Actually it has already happened, and I can't bring myself to say, "Hey guess what I have had sexual thoughts about you." I know exactly where that would lead; back to the sexual abuse stuff and how sex became just sex and no intimcacy. Oh now I remember, he said something about us becoming very intimate before we are done, meaning in a therapeutic way, and I freaked even though I knew what he meant, and then he brought up the sexual stuff, and I freaked again. Maybe I can tell him next Tuesday. As far as he is concerned, our relationship is hugely important to my healing. I know he is right too.
OzLand
Posted by sunnydays on August 10, 2007, at 23:21:53
In reply to Therapist is not upset with me, but (triggerlong), posted by OzLand on August 10, 2007, at 21:33:52
It sounds like it was a really good session. It sounds like he really 'gets' you and understands and hears where you're coming from.
I definitely relate to the whole father thing. I told my T once "I wish you were my parent". I kind of want him to replace my mother actually, because my father and I do ok together. But it's the same sort of thing, I think. He said, "Sometimes I wish I could be your parent too, sunnydays." And at the moment it was the best thing he could have said. We have gone over the boundaries a zillion times - I have a problem even wanting something I can't have, even if I know I can't have it, so he's trying to convince me that it's ok to have wants even if they can't be fulfilled. He's said things like, "It's perfectly ok to want to come set up a futon in our back bedroom. I'll say no, but it's perfectly ok to want that. I'm comfortable saying no, so you can ask for whatever you want. If you were in the hospital with a broken arm, I'd come see you, but if you were at a friend's house and couldn't come to a session, I wouldn't go visit you there."
Sorry this post became all about me. But I hope it helps some. I relate to some of the feelings you're having. It sounds like you have a really good therapist.
sunnydays
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2007, at 9:39:48
In reply to Therapist is not upset with me, but (triggerlong), posted by OzLand on August 10, 2007, at 21:33:52
That sounds like a great session. Not a comfortable one perhaps. But an honest one, and one that should make you feel safe in his commitment.
I have to admit that my therapist lets me know that he thinks of me differently than his other clients. But he doesn't base it on who I am, or anything personal about me, but instead on the fact that I'm the longest term client he's ever seen, and given how long I've seen him and his current age, the longest term client he'll ever see.
Even then, he was reluctant to say so until one day when he was hedging something by saying he would feel that way about all his clients, and going out of his way to set boundaries in that direction. I told him flat out that if our relationship after all those years of hard work, including a lot of work on the therapeutic relationship, was no different than the relationship he had with a client he's been seeing for a month or two, then clearly there was something very wrong with it.
I don't really think of that as a boundary violation because it's based on what we built inside the therapy room. He's never pretended that I'd be someone he'd seek out in the real world, and I wouldn't believe it if he did. I never pretended that I wanted him as my real mom, just my therapist/mommy. I know full well that I have the better in that exchange. Real moms yell about clothes on the floor and curfews. What we have is inside that room, and that's all either of us wants. But to not acknowledge what we've built inside that room would be acknowledging that we really had no therapeutic relationship to build.
And with me, the therapeutic relationship is the key to change. Not in pressuring me using it. But in influencing me using it.
(Mind you, he also acknowledges that there's a large divide from how I care about him, and how he cares about me. That's only honest, though it hurts sometimes of course.)
Posted by JoniS on August 11, 2007, at 10:26:45
In reply to Re: Therapist is not upset with me, but (triggerl » gardenergirl, posted by OzLand on August 10, 2007, at 22:17:07
OzLand
Sounds like you had a really good session and you are doing some good work. Your T sounds like a sensitive, caring and practical T. I could just "ditto" what gg, Sunny, and Dinah already said.
One thing I thought I'd mention - When I was dancing around the issue of my strong feelings for my T including sexual, Babble helped me so much. Hearing how other people have dealt with it, and realizing it is normal, and a good T knows how to deal with it tenderly and professionally - all of that was so good for me to hear. That book by Deborah Lott also helped a lot.
Keep up the good work!
Joni
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 12:34:21
In reply to Re: Therapist is not upset with me, but (triggerl » OzLand, posted by JoniS on August 11, 2007, at 10:26:45
Oz I forgot to tell you my therapist does remember going to school with you although you were a year apart should make you feel good. And glad the theraphy is going well. Makes the long early ride worth it. Love Phillipa
Posted by OzLand on August 11, 2007, at 13:07:02
In reply to Re: Therapist is not upset with me, but (triggerl, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 12:34:21
I knew I shouldn't have been posting here. Goodbye everyone. This email from Phillipa is just so upsetting to me that I don't think I can ever come back here and post. What the hell.
Oz
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 13:33:30
In reply to Re: Therapist is not upset with me, but (triggerl, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 12:34:21
Why is it upsetting no names mentioned???? I don't understand. Very confused no personal info given out????? Why would you not want to post here??? Love Phillipa ps don't know what I said but I'm sorry for whatever I said want to write to me about it?
Posted by slugdoo on August 11, 2007, at 13:34:58
In reply to Re: I cannot post here ever again » Phillipa, posted by OzLand on August 11, 2007, at 13:07:02
Oz,
I totally understand. Makes me kinda scared to post too. Okay, but I am not wanting to get involved in this, but just wanting to let you know I understand why you would want to leave. I hope you don't though.
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 13:36:39
In reply to Re: I cannot post here ever again » OzLand, posted by slugdoo on August 11, 2007, at 13:34:58
Can you tell me why I'm confused thought it was supportive to know a therapist thought a lot of you? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 13:50:03
In reply to Re: I cannot post here ever again » slugdoo, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 13:36:39
I'm serious what did I say wrong and I don't know your real name so what did I do why is it not safe here. Just used the name of the Hospital and Oz you've posted it here yourself Menningers. Love Phillipa
Posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 14:03:17
In reply to Re: I cannot post here ever again » slugdoo, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 13:36:39
Phillipa, it's a question of privacy. It's a question of respect for *other people's* privacy.
Babble is a safe place for many of us because we can be anonymous, because we can discuss matters which concern us *without it bleeding over into our real lives.* Having someone here talking about us to other people, outside the Babble community, feels pretty unsafe. It's kinda like in group therapy -- what happens in the group, *stays* in the group. We don't discuss it outside the group, or with non-group members.
I don't blame OzLand for being upset, although I do hope she'll stay. Discussing Babblers outside of Babble is probably not a sign of great judgment, and is certainly to be discouraged.
Posted by ClearSkies on August 11, 2007, at 14:35:02
In reply to Re: I cannot post here ever again, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 13:50:03
I'm pretty certain I won't want to disclose anything personal about myself to someone who is readily willing to post it on a public board like this, no matter what the intentions are. I'm feeling very nervous about what I might have disclosed already, and it makes me feel really ill.
If I was in Oz's shoes, I'd be crushed.
ClearSkies
Posted by OzLand on August 11, 2007, at 14:58:07
In reply to Re: I cannot post here ever again, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 13:50:03
Phillipa, you DO know my name, and now you have told your therapist who you say knows me GOD knows what about me and what I have posted. I cannot express how angry and outraged I am and then to pretend you don't know my name. Well, how would your therapist know me if you had not told her my name?????? I never in a million years should have emailed you a couple of years ago. I truely regret it.
I think this should be a lesson to everyone that you cannot trust that things will stay here with Babble. Be very careful.
OzLand
Posted by slugdoo on August 11, 2007, at 15:19:41
In reply to Re: I cannot post here ever again » slugdoo, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 13:36:39
Well I think Ozland explained it. But remember it is YOUR therapist, it is Ozland's colleage and school mate. Whatever you told your T, what if that has an impact on Ozland's reputation now or for future employment because your T knows Ozland an are in a simular field.
I would be mortified if someone from Babble told say my T , friend , or proff. about me and therapy. Therapy is a sensitive subject for most. I know Babble isn't totally private, I wonder too, if I can trust posting here. What if what I say on Babble, will come to bite me in the butt later in my future? It is scary.
Posted by Quintal on August 11, 2007, at 15:44:40
In reply to Phillipa, posted by ClearSkies on August 11, 2007, at 14:35:02
This seems to be a regular occurrence on babble. Phillipa befriends a new babbler, babbler and Phillipa exchange personal details, Phillipa and babbler have a disagreement and babbler's personal details are 'accidentally' leaked into the public domain. Just as one example, if you look over on Social you'll see where I made an error of judgment in giving out personal details too. I wish there were a way to warn new babblers of this. I know we should all be wary of giving out personal details to people we meet on the web, but we can only form an opinion of a person's character based on what we know at the time, and Phillipa has a reputation of being a kind, trustworthy and harmless member of this community.
Q
Posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 16:07:10
In reply to It's a question of privacy » Phillipa, posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 14:03:17
After rereading what I wrote, I think it could be misconstrued. I'd therefore like to rephrase that, so that there's no misunderstanding. I'd also like to apologize if anyone took offense at my last, hasty, ill-conceived post.
One benefit I find with discussing therapy related issues on Babble, is that there's a certain level of anonymity here. Another benefit I find here, is that we've all come into contact with one another because we have therapy in common. In most of my life, I try to maintain a sense of confidence -- partly because if I were working, I'd be teaching again, so I need to be able to project that confidence -- and to hide how vulnerable I am in so many areas. With those of us here on Babble, I feel pretty comfortable expressing some of that vulnerability, because I trust that most everyone will understand or empathize to some degree. I'm sure that others find the same sense of safety that I do, in that anonymity and empathy.
I think it shows sensitivity to Babble, and other Babblers, not to disclose personal information -- especially if one knows real names or the like -- to others who might know them in another context. Privacy is a big deal to many people here, and discretion about what's posted here seems like something to be encouraged. Maybe it could be considered a sign of good judgment and respect for the privacy of others to avoid discussing what's revealed here to others outside of Babble?
Again, my apologies to anyone who may have been offended by my prior post.
Posted by Quintal on August 11, 2007, at 16:15:04
In reply to I'd like to rephrase that, posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 16:07:10
I thought it was very apt.
Q
Posted by OzLand on August 11, 2007, at 16:15:51
In reply to I'd like to rephrase that, posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 16:07:10
Racer
You lost me; what was offensive what you said. I so agree with both your posts. From this point forward I won't mention names of hospitals either or schools or towns though most people know I live in the Chicago area. But Chicago is a big area. If I lived in Danville, IL for example, I probably would not say. By the way, I have never lived in Danville; just grabbed it out of the hat.
I do feel badly now as I am not comfortable posting about insights from therapy. So much is already known from me about my therapy, and I was glad to share as others have done. As I said in another post, it is helpful and is mutually encouraging when we can do this. Enough said.
OzLand
Posted by Quintal on August 11, 2007, at 16:53:27
In reply to Re: Phillipa, posted by Quintal on August 11, 2007, at 15:44:40
It was pointed out to me by a friend that my previous post may not have met the civility guidelines in the strictest sense, so I'd like to take this opportunity to rephrase it.
Grievances have been raised by other babblers over this issue in the past. I'm taking this as an opportunity to remind myself that we have no control over what happens to our personal information when it leaves our inbox, so we should take care never to reveal anything to another babbler, or member of any other message board, that we would not wish to see revealed to others or posted posted in the public domain at some point in the future. I'm apologize if my previous post offended to anyone.
Q
Posted by OzLand on August 11, 2007, at 17:12:02
In reply to Re: YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND???????? » Phillipa, posted by OzLand on August 11, 2007, at 14:58:07
The only thing I will say here is that I continue to feel hurt, outraged, and angry. I do not appreciate having my babbling exposed to others outside babble. If I am to be blocked, so be it. I did not appreciate receiving an email that let me know that though I have changed my name twice on this list, I was told it was easy to figure out who I was. So, I quit trying to hide some things. Now, I find a colleague is someone's therapist in another State and likely knows now about me getting ECT, etc, and now my career could be ended. Thanks University of Chicago for your sh*tty psychiatric treatment and your residents who do not know there a from a hole in their head. I am so angry, I could spit nails. I cannot believe someone could sit by and act innocent and disbelieving and get away with hurting people, and so what happens. I get to be blocked? I do not care anymore. This is sick as far as I am concerned.
Posted by Quintal on August 11, 2007, at 17:19:55
In reply to Re: I could be in trouble???? what about..... » OzLand, posted by OzLand on August 11, 2007, at 17:12:02
I think people understand your anger Oz, but we too have to stay within the civility guidelines when airing grievances with other babblers, that's what the rephrase posts were about. They weren't about anything you yourself had said. It's just that things can be cleared up more quickly when people stay within the civility guidelines when contributing to threads like this.
Q
Posted by OzLand on August 11, 2007, at 17:22:48
In reply to I'd like to rephrase that, posted by Racer on August 11, 2007, at 16:07:10
Okay; if anyone is offended by what I said, sorry. I would appreciate it as well if my personal life from the past did not rise up in Babble to bite me. I have enough problems with trust. Isn't life just grand. I have been feeling suicidal the past couple of weeks, and this crap does not help matters. Now I can't stop crying. Please just do whatever and get it over with.
OzLand
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2007, at 18:06:22
In reply to Re: I'd like to rephrase that, posted by OzLand on August 11, 2007, at 17:22:48
Been gone all day. I do not know your real name as people here has psudo e-mail accounts set up. And I only remarked that I knew someone she went to school with I don't have money to discuss other people in my session which happens every three week. Again She does not know you name as I don't either. Only posting names. I know no one who uses their real names? And e-mail on contained a first name and a name a lot of people have. She kind of just oh that's nice and we went on with our session as I think it was the first one. I'm leaving her anyway as no money and EBAY is keeping me busy. Got to ride my bike now as that is my theraphy. The one that helps talking to real live people in person. Don't worry I will no longer frequent this board in my life a promise that I will keep. Bye Phillipa
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