![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 34 to 58 of 58. Go back in thread:
Posted by happyflower on May 4, 2005, at 20:57:30
In reply to Re: Is it really harmful to be friends with T ? » happyflower, posted by Shortelise on May 4, 2005, at 20:41:14
I guess I don't get away with anything here! lol There is still some attraction going on at both ends, but I truely believe they won't amount into anything. Maybe a friendship wouldn't be a good idea then. I guess I need to get out and meet some friends before I end therapy so I won't feel the loss so much.
Is short term therapy different than long term? I have only had about 12 sessions and he says I should be done in a couple of months, is that considered short term?
I guess if friendship isn't in the cards, I will be here with everyone trying to get over the loss.
Posted by pinkeye on May 4, 2005, at 21:02:43
In reply to Re: Is it really harmful to be friends with T ? » Shortelise, posted by happyflower on May 4, 2005, at 20:57:30
I like your easy going attitude Happyflower. I remember you having a very bad childhood. Inspite of that you have grown to be so humorous. :-)
I like it.
Pinkeye.
Posted by pinkeye on May 4, 2005, at 21:36:15
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better? » JenStar, posted by Dinah on May 4, 2005, at 20:32:03
It could work the other way also... Ah he knows so much about me, and he knows all the ugly details about my life, that he must truly hate me. Nobody could like me after knowing me fully. I think it depends on how you perceive yourself.
I have felt both ways many times.
> > Maybe it's because it's hard to "get" that someone who sees the "real us" isn't magnetically drawn to us; doesn't go crazy trying to find a way to be with us all the time. After all, if we're so great (which we're learning to feel about ourselves), why isn't the T breaking down doors to be our friend? Anyway, that's the way it would go in MY mind, I think!
>
> Ahhhh. Ok, that I understand. I guess I assume it's because he's so darned delighted to be my therapist (wink) that he couldn't bear to leave that behind. :)
>
> >
> > I admire the kind of relationship you have with your T. I think it's really a good role-model of what the healthy client/T relationship looks like!
> >
> > take care,
> > jenStar
>
> Thanks JenStar. I've always thought it works so well precisely because I have no further desires from him. So I do understand that.
>
> I suppose I'm a bit hampered by the fact that I'm very skilled at wanting what's possible to have, and pretty much never noticing if on the odd chance I actually want something more.
>
>
Posted by happyflower on May 4, 2005, at 22:19:37
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better? » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 4, 2005, at 21:36:15
> It could work the other way also... Ah he knows so much about me, and he knows all the ugly details about my life, that he must truly hate me. Nobody could like me after knowing me fully. I think it depends on how you perceive yourself.
>
> >
You know we talked about this a little bit during our last session. I was talking about how shameful I felt of my family growing up. And thats one of the reasons I didn't tell anyone about my mothers abuse. Even during adulthood, most people do look at you weird if you were abused. It is like they think something must be wrong with you or something. My T asked me if I thought he thought that about me. I said no, because he was a T and wasn't supposed to think that. He said well what if I was something else. I don't know what he was getting at because I ran off on another tangent.
Posted by happyflower on May 4, 2005, at 22:20:57
In reply to Re: Is it really harmful to be friends with T ? » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 4, 2005, at 21:02:43
Posted by Dinah on May 5, 2005, at 3:08:40
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better?, posted by happyflower on May 4, 2005, at 22:19:37
You ought to bring it up again. :) I suspect it's important.
Posted by happyflower on May 5, 2005, at 7:55:07
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better? » happyflower, posted by Dinah on May 5, 2005, at 3:08:40
> You ought to bring it up again. :) I suspect it's important.
What do you think it is all about? :)
Posted by cricket on May 5, 2005, at 14:32:23
In reply to Is friendship supposed to be better?, posted by Dinah on May 4, 2005, at 18:36:06
Is friendship supposed to be better? I was wondering the same thing.
Also, does anyone else feel like being friends with their T is the last thing that they would want. Right now just the thought of running into my T somewhere, much less with wife and kids in tow gives me horrors. Maybe that's unique to clients of long term, analytic therapy or maybe just unique to me.
Now as far as contact after termination is concerned, that's another story. I fully expect to be able to contact my T, even come in for a check up session on a periodic basis or if a crisis occurs after termination. But at this point (3 years into the process) neither one of us has even breathed a word about termination (quitting yes, but "we've completed our work together" terminating, no). In fact, most of the time he's reminding me that this process takes years.
Posted by Shortelise on May 5, 2005, at 19:47:28
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better?, posted by cricket on May 5, 2005, at 14:32:23
ANother good point. No, I wouldn't want to be friends with my T. We're not friends, he's not my friend, he's my therapist, he's my psychiatrist. It's kind of like wondering if I would want my gastro-enterologist as my friend, y'know, the guy who did the big look up my bum with the good drugs and the camera? Like, hey, I really liked him, he's a jolly, kind man, my age, intelligent, but, as we're sitting there at the dinner table is he thinking, wow, she shouldn't be eating that! I know JUST what's going to happen in her colon, and it's not going to be pretty, and I sure don't want to be around in a couple of hours for the smells it's going to generate. Woof!
Being "friends" with my T, impossible! He knows every twist and turn of my psyche, or thinks he does. I wouldn't want him at my dinner table, wouldn't want him near my friends, wouldn't want him getting drunk on champagne and letting slip anything one might let slip when one has a glass to many. He can let those things slip around his own friends, keep me out of it! And I need him invulnerable, strong, and safe. For later, maybe. Friends, I have some already. I'll keep my psychiatrist for psychiatry.
There would just be too much history. Our relationship is very intimate, takes place in a small room, between four walls, and my feelings of closeness to him are based on having his attention focussed on me entirely. I don't know how that could translate into the real world. I don't think it could, it's so outside of the real world. I prefer to write to him, to keep in touch with him with a phone call, a letter, but always professionally, never personally.
It would slay me if I had a therapist who cut me off, who sent me off into the sunset, and refused to keep in touch. That is cruel, unless I go off the deep end about him, and it's the only way to help me find some equilibrium.
ShortE
Posted by Dinah on May 5, 2005, at 20:01:21
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better?, posted by Shortelise on May 5, 2005, at 19:47:28
Posted by Dinah on May 5, 2005, at 20:02:50
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better?, posted by cricket on May 5, 2005, at 14:32:23
That's the way I feel too. I go to extraordinary lengths to avoid his seeing me outside the safe confines of his office.
Posted by pinkeye on May 5, 2005, at 22:25:08
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better?, posted by Shortelise on May 5, 2005, at 19:47:28
Yeah, I think no contact is the horrible part. Even friendship I can sacrifice.
Posted by Shortelise on May 6, 2005, at 0:26:59
In reply to ROFL. Exactly. (nm) » Shortelise, posted by Dinah on May 5, 2005, at 20:01:21
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 0:31:32
In reply to innards are innards, right? (nm) » Dinah, posted by Shortelise on May 6, 2005, at 0:26:59
Posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 2:26:50
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better? » Dinah, posted by happyflower on May 5, 2005, at 7:55:07
> > You ought to bring it up again. :) I suspect it's important.
>
> What do you think it is all about? :)If my experience is anything to go by, it's probably about transference. Not necessarily the erotic kind, but nevertheless probably transference.
And it does seem to be generally true that if things like this feel important they're good topics for discussion.
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 2:46:03
In reply to Re: Is friendship supposed to be better? » happyflower, posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 2:26:50
let us know what her therapist thinks. :)
Posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 3:52:20
In reply to My guess was projection. Maybe Happyflower could, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 2:46:03
Posted by Dinah on May 6, 2005, at 6:54:51
In reply to I'll defer to your greater knowledge! (nm) » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 6, 2005, at 3:52:20
of my guess.
And I suppose I'm projecting in that guess. :)
Posted by Susan47 on May 7, 2005, at 19:54:29
In reply to Re: Is it really harmful to be friends with T ? » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on May 4, 2005, at 1:35:09
Yeah, and the point of termination actually is that you're terminating a therapy relationship. Period. It seems like some therapists think that way, in any case. It doesn't matter whether the client's ready or whether they've adequately hashed anything out, the therapist's ceiling level of comfort has been reached, he is unable to further grow or expand or deal with things, and it's bye-bye sweetheart you're on your own, here's a recommendation or whatever, just get the hell out of my face ...
I'm not bitter. :-]
To the original subject question on the thread, though, I think I was not thinking clearly before. Some writers can be very persuasive, until you take personal experience into account etc.
After some re-thinking I agree that a therapist shouldn't see a client as a friend, you know, I think Yalom crossed a line and justified his actions with the fact that nothing bad happened. Great, in hindsight, if that worked for him. But Lott brings up some good arguments in her book, against that, and I think ShortE brought them up too, before. A T and an ex-client could possibly be friends after that relationship's terminated, and maybe they could terminate a therapy relationship because they want to be friends, but it shouldn't be done concurrently. No way. And I don't know too many people who'd really be comfortable being friends with an ex-client. It would have to be pretty exceptional to work.
Posted by LG04 on May 16, 2005, at 23:46:38
In reply to Re: Is it really harmful to be friends with T ?, posted by happyflower on May 4, 2005, at 12:22:35
Hi, I haven't been on Babble for ages. I just got on and skimmed subject headings, I'm too tired to read much right now.
I skimmed a few of these posts and want to tell you all about a book I've been reading called,
"When Boundaries Betray Us." I found it at a used bookstore and thought it would be about a therapist who was sexual with a client.Turns out, it's a book about a therapist and client who had a very strong "soul connection" and had discussed being friends after therapy. In the end, the therapist said no, and the client was devestated for a long, long time. She felt that the therapist held back b/c of the professional boundaries, and in fact "hid" behind them due to her own fears of intimacy, and in doing so, betrayed the authenticity of their relationship.
The author feels that for her, healing comes in creating authentic, soulful, mutual relationships with others. And that though therapy has its place, the "power-over" aspect of it became very constricting for her and she also feels it's a result of a patriarchal society. She couldn't take it anymore. she loved her therapist and knew her therapist felt the same, and was ready to move into a different, mutual kind of relationship where they would continue to grow and heal. but the therapist backed out.
She talks a lot about "The Stone Center," a consortium of women therapists who reseach and write about many things, including genuineness and mutuality in therapy. This is what it says on their home page:
http://www.wcwonline.org/index.html
"For more than 30 years, the Wellesley Centers for Women (WCW) has been a driving force, both behind the scenes and in the spotlight, promoting positive change for women and girls. The nation's largest women's research center, WCW is the powerful alliance of the Center for Research on Women and the Stone Center at Wellesley College."
I saw a few Stone Center books on the shelves of Borders under "feminism" or "women's studies." they are very, very interesting.
The book is very moving and at least for me very thought provoking. It might be true that for 90% - 95% of therapist/client relationships, friendship might not be the right thing. But what about the small minority where it might be, where the feelings are mutual, and to NOT pursue this route is letting go of a very important healing relationship in one's life for no reason other than society's finger wagging no-no?
(though actually, most psychological organizations' ethical statements about termination discuss the rules regarding sexual relationships following therapy, and don't mention anything about friendships).
If my therapist had stopped contact when i left the country, i would have been beyond devestated. it would have affected my ability to trust people probably for the rest of my life. she knew this and agreed to an ongoing phone therapy relationship with me even though none of her colleagues approved of it. she knew in her heart that it was the right thing, THANK GOODNESS she had the courage to follow her instincts and intimate knowledge of the situation. i can't imagine had she cut me off. the pain would have been unbearable. i've been thru enough pain in my life. G-d knows i don't need more.
we are now working thru a termination process. neither of us know what will be in the future. we are both open to a different kind of relationship. but we both believe that this one needs to be grieved and let go of first, before we can determine how each of us feels about developing a different kind of relationship. we each talk about how precious we are to one another, how it's a very special relationship, that we have a soul connection.
yet, we each agree that probably in many ways it would be easier to not pursue anything after termination. it's very difficult to change boundaries, to figure out how to do it and so many many issues that go along with it. we will each have to ask ourselves if we are willing to take the harder road, one that is filled with a lot of fears, but where the rewards could be infinite. it will mean a lot of discussion with each other about expectations and fears and risks and so on, and a tremendous amount of openness and honesty with each other. i am just now thinking that even the process of discussing it will be so growth-inducing for me no matter what the ultimate decision is.
i don't agree with one-size-fits-all rules. there are always exceptions and to ignore them is a situation where, as the books says, "boundaries betray us." the painful part is when one person wants one thing, and the other wants another.
i hope this will not happen between us. either we'll both agree not to pursue it, or we'll both want to pursue it. i have a strong sense that we will come to a decision together, that the process will reveal to us what to do.
lastly, i recently read an article about transference where it said that the POSSIBILITY for a future relationship with one's therapist is essential to letting go of the transference, b/c otherwise the therapist always remains the carrier of greater consciousness. the client will always feel that the therapist has something that the client needs (though of course it's not true). it talked about these clubs that freud and jung used to have where they'd "hang out" with their former clients, where they recognized that some kind of continuing relationship was important. (and we all know how rigid Freud was).
the article said something like, "what if the relationship itself becomes as important as the therapy? how is one motivated to get better if the person knows it will mean the end of what has become a very important and loving relationship in their life?" i think that's a very good question. this article was a very psycho-analytic oriented article, so this discussion surprised me b/c psychoanalysis is so conservative, but it made complete sense to me and resonated 100% with me and my relationship with my therapist.
i just think that, as i said, rules are meant for the majority, and they are important, but for a small minority they simply might not fit the very human and individual relationship that develops between two people. (there HAVE been successful marriages between therapist and client though it's very unusual. yet for those few couples, it works.) we must be very cautious in both directions. not to let boundaries betray us by being so rigid that the true nature of the relationship is denied, or to let the boundaries be so soft that harmful or even abusive violations occur.
that's my two cents.
okay i guess it was more like 20 cents.
but i have to say i get furious when i read about some of the situations here on this list where therapists have cut off their clients. it makes me feel so much pain inside. there has to be more flexibility in the profession, such as gradual termination or perhaps limited but continued contact until the client feels ready to make the full break. or maybe it's never a full break, maybe it's a phone call a few times a year to say hi. what is so wrong with that? aren't we human beings?and we can get to that place eventually if it's at our own pace, i fully believe that. it is happening with me and i was very dependent upon my therapist. yet i am the one who has initiated termination. i am finally ready. and once again i will say THANK GOODNESS my therapist had the courage to let it happen at my pace and not cut me off as her colleagues felt she should (and they all define themselves as feminist therapists!). and my readiness developed the more my therapist opened up and became more genuine with me about her thoughts and feelings. i asked her to start doing this so many times. i was ready. i was ready to let go of the ideal, and of the transference. she felt like she would be crossing boundaries but as she did it little by little, she saw how helpful and healing it was to me.
there's more than one way to slice a cake, or skin a rat, or whatever they say.
okay i'm off my soapbox.
just some more food for thought.
LG04
Posted by Dinah on May 17, 2005, at 8:12:32
In reply to Re: Is it harmful to be friends with T ? long, posted by LG04 on May 16, 2005, at 23:46:38
My problem with that book is that it didn't seem to be a good example of its point. The client didn't come across as someone who would be better served by friendship than therapy. Her therapist certainly seemed to have made a fair share of mistakes. How many is difficult to tell because we all know how one person's account of a relationship (any relationship) isn't necessarily what an impartial observer would see. But her mistakes sounded more like not admitting she was out of her depth early enough and referring the client on.
I ended up with a clearer appreciation for the boundaries, especially as they protect the therapist.
I was sorry not to like the book better.
It sounds as if your therapist and you are going through a good process of deciding whether friendship would be appropriate and healthy for the two of you. Talking it over thoroughly, exploring the impact on both persons, making sure it is mutually desired, taking into account the potential problems, and I'm guessing a cooling off period?
Unless therapy was short term and educational or collegial in nature, friendship on the terms of a true mutual friendship would be pretty hard to establish on the foundation of a true therapy relationship. But it's got a better chance if the hardships are anticipated, rather than the whole thing rushed and improperly thought out.
Posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2005, at 20:50:03
In reply to Re: Is it harmful to be friends with T ? long, posted by LG04 on May 16, 2005, at 23:46:38
wow thank you LG for sharing this.....It's really resonating with me right now.
> I skimmed a few of these posts and want to tell you all about a book I've been reading called,
> "When Boundaries Betray Us." I found it at a used bookstore and thought it would be about a therapist who was sexual with >a client. .... Turns out, it's a book about a therapist and client who had a very strong "soul connection" and had discussed >being friends after therapy. In the end, the therapist said no, and the client was devestated for a long, long time. She felt >that the therapist held back b/c of the professional boundaries, and in fact "hid" behind them due to her own fears of >intimacy, and in doing so, betrayed the authenticity of their relationship.---Sounds very interesting, and similar to with what i'm struggling with right now. I requested the book through my library's ILL so I should have it in a few days. I'm not expecting it all to apply, and I'm already leery of it being a "T-bashing," but if I can relate to it at all right now, it might help. So thank you for suggesting it.
> The author feels that for her, healing comes in creating authentic, soulful, mutual relationships with others. And that >though therapy has its place, the "power-over" aspect of it became very constricting for her and she also feels it's a result >of a patriarchal society. She couldn't take it anymore. she loved her therapist and knew her therapist felt the same, and was >ready to move into a different, mutual kind of relationship where they would continue to grow and heal. but the therapist >backed out.---That's similar to my situation. Although my T and I never openly discussed being friends, it's been hinted at and then ignored by both of us. She'd ask me if I could imagine us being friends, or me having her in my life in some way. Last session, she said that I was trying to suggest a friendship and then reacted when she resisted, but I told her I didn't agree with that. Then she sounded a little insulted and said, "Yeah like who could ever be friends with me right." And I told her that wasn't what I meant. She's said how much I mean to her, and vice versa. She's acknowledged this relationship was different, special, intense. Maybe I took it wrong, maybe she meant in the therapeutic sense, but sometimes I felt that she meant something else too. And I feel like there's a lot going on with us, stuff that we ignored and didn't talk about.....And I wonder if I'm imaginging it or if she felt it too. My last session with her was Hell, b/c we both threw up our walls and defenses, and she hid behind the therapy wall and threw up all the boundaries she could, reacting completely opposite of the way she usually does with me.
> If my therapist had stopped contact when i left the country, i would have been beyond devestated. it would have affected my ability to trust people probably for the rest of my life. she knew this and agreed to an ongoing phone therapy relationship with me even though none of her colleagues approved of it. she knew in her heart that it was the right thing, THANK GOODNESS she had the courage to follow her instincts and intimate knowledge of the situation. i can't imagine had she cut me off. the pain would have been unbearable. i've been thru enough pain in my life. G-d knows i don't need more.
--I can so relate to this. I'm going through this now, and I feel like my T doesn't know (or care) how this termination is affecting me. I couldn't even explain it if I had to, it's just a deep hurt and fear and panic and rejection and loss. I've lost people before, and it's hard but, this is so different. I wish your T could talk to my T. ;-)
> we are now working thru a termination process. neither of us know what will be in the future. we are both open to a different kind of relationship. but we both believe that this one needs to be grieved and let go of first, before we can determine how each of us feels about developing a different kind of relationship. we each talk about how precious we are to one another, how it's a very special relationship, that we have a soul connection.--Again, similar to my T and I. We've suggested or said similar things. But then we each push the other away, hide behind various things, shift in our seats, avert our eyes and whistle. I wish wish wish I had talked more about this with her, pushed a dialogue of our relationship and what it means and whether it's deeper than the therapy itself. But I wasn't ready for a talk like that. And now it's too late.
> yet, we each agree that probably in many ways it would be easier to not pursue anything after termination. it's very difficult to change boundaries, to figure out how to do it and so many many issues that go along with it. we will each have to ask ourselves if we are willing to take the harder road, one that is filled with a lot of fears, but where the rewards could be infinite. it will mean a lot of discussion with each other about expectations and fears and risks and so on, and a tremendous amount of openness and honesty with each other. i am just now thinking that even the process of discussing it will be so growth-inducing for me no matter what the ultimate decision is.--Again, I feel like this is something my T and I should be doing. But I'm not sure if it's just a one-sided feeling,or if she has it too but is burying it. I want to call her on it,I want to tell her that it's BS that it's ending this way with us and that it isn't fair and that I know she feels that our relationship is too special to have it be dictated by how we met. But.....I'm afraid. Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm carrying it too far. Maybe I took everything she said to me too literally. I mean, how do you know? And even if she denies it, is it b/c she doesn't want to acknowledge it, or is it b/c it's really my imagination?
> i don't agree with one-size-fits-all rules. there are always exceptions and to ignore them is a situation where, as the books says, "boundaries betray us." the painful part is when one person wants one thing, and the other wants another.
--True. But I'm at a loss at to what she would want if anything. And I couldn't envision a best pals type of relationship either, at least not at first. I'd settle for a once a month phone check-in, or coffee date. I don't see what's wrong with that. Just to keep tabs on each other, just to keep the other close.
> i hope this will not happen between us. either we'll both agree not to pursue it, or we'll both want to pursue it. i have a strong sense that we will come to a decision together, that the process will reveal to us what to do.--I wish you both the best of luck. Again, um, can you or your T talk to my T? Please?! ;-)
> lastly, i recently read an article about transference where it said that the POSSIBILITY for a future relationship with one's therapist is essential to letting go of the transference, b/c otherwise the therapist always remains the carrier of greater consciousness. the client will always feel that the therapist has something that the client needs (though of course it's not true). it talked about these clubs that freud and jung used to have where they'd "hang out" with their former clients, where they recognized that some kind of continuing relationship was important. (and we all know how rigid Freud was).--Do you know the article? Is it available online? Or do you have the citation or title? I'd like to try to find it.....
> but i have to say i get furious when i read about some of the situations here on this list where therapists have cut off their clients. it makes me feel so much pain inside. there has to be more flexibility in the profession, such as gradual termination or perhaps limited but continued contact until the client feels ready to make the full break. or maybe it's never a full break, maybe it's a phone call a few times a year to say hi. what is so wrong with that? aren't we human beings?--THANK YOU. That's what I think.....Maybe we should start an organization or something? :-/
Thanks again for sharing this.
You're very lucky.
Posted by Crackers on May 29, 2006, at 19:31:39
In reply to Re: Is it really harmful to be friends with T ?, posted by octavia on May 3, 2005, at 18:55:46
> Hi happyflower,
>
> I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I do think it's possible. In my mind there are big 'ifs' though. If the client is willing to leave behind the theraputic relationship, if the desire to be friends is mutual, if the client sees the therapist as more of a coach/confidant than a parental figure, and if the client is comfortable with the possibility of it not working out then I say yes to trying friendship. Everyone is an adult. But that's just me. I might be the only one here that thinks that, too. It's an edge case and therefore technically out of bounds. There are really no allowances for it. I know that it does happen, though. It's just really unusual. This is an issue that has been HEAVILY weighing on my mind.
>
> OWait 2 years after the therapeutic relationship is over if you still want to be friends at that time go for it. I terminated my friendly/ therapeutic relationship with my T because I felt he had sexual feelings for me. He avoided the subject everytime I tried to bring it up. After terminating the T - relationship he continued to invite me to talk to him outside of session. Finally I advised the man that I felt his ethics were unorothodox at the bare minimum. So my advice trust your gut!!!.....Ask yourself why you feeling this way and don't doubt yourself.
Alison B.
Posted by happyflower on May 31, 2006, at 20:39:00
In reply to Re: Is it really harmful to be friends with T ?, posted by Crackers on May 29, 2006, at 19:31:39
Wow, this post is over a year old of mine. It is interesting I am still feeling the same way a year later. I guess I will have to wait the 2 years, but I don't believe I want to be his friend anymore.
Posted by susan47 on June 2, 2006, at 0:25:16
In reply to Is it really harmful to be friends with T ?, posted by happyflower on May 3, 2005, at 10:35:29
Yes I see what you mean. I know I've changed a lot too .. but still not sure of myself, it's really scary, I'm really very scared. But I know I'm in a different place and I hope it's a better one but time will tell, only time can do that, and heal, and bring back hope for love in a future like you've never thought you deserved .. but this T no matter how he turned out, no matter all the bad things I did by phoning over and over and spilling, spilling and gutting myself like a fish, a salmon being gutted that's me ...
Omigod.
I don't know I don't believe this is happening to me but I need it i need it i need this just so much, this feeling of being good, of being wanted, of really being wanted. I want nothing more than that, but I don't know, I just don't understand, but I do know that for the first time in my life, well maybe the second I don't really remember, but I trust guys again, not all of them of course and most of them never to date or anything .. and I'm a lovely person and a really good date and maybe, maybe if I could just get my mind organized a bit better so I don't get so freaked out being alone .. I could have a good life too. Because there's a lot of love in my life, a lot of love is there to take and to give, and I give love a lot, I give it a lot to 'most everybody, and I think most people love me too when they get to know me, that I'm just not all fluffy stuff or stupid stuff or, whatever. What someone else thinks of me is none of my business. My therapist, the one who had such a hard time getting rid of me and wanting to from the first .. well, he taught me that. Even that stupid telephone relationship I had with myself, well that was the thing that healed that and a whole lot of other stuff in me.So I hope he stays the course and does it well, but if he doesn't, you be ready for that. Be ready for it should it happen and if you learn nothing other than how to take care of yourself, you've done everything you ever needed to do.
So there.
This is the end of the thread.
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