![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Poet on May 14, 2005, at 14:47:13
The word safe still makes me want to scream.
She asked me if I am feeling safer over the course of time. I shook my head no and said *sorry, it's my problem.*
She said, I don't see it as a problem, it's *your issue.* What are you really afraid of, what are all your fears?
I said rejection and failure...and she cut me off. She said she can talk about both of them, but it's rejection that she wants to work with.
She thinks that I push people away because I am terrified of having relationships including one with her. So I reject people before they can reject me. Even though I know that she isn't going to reject me, I still put up my *walls* and try to shut her out.
That I built those walls because I needed to protect myself from certain people. I don't need to protect myself from everybody. She said that I don't want to admit that a big part of me wants a relationship with her. If I didn't I wouldn't be seeing her every week for over two years. That she wishes that I could just stop being stubborn and realize that my self protection isn't necessary. That I am hurting myself, not helping myself.
She makes complete sense, but I still ran out of her office without leaving her anything I'd written (again.) I feel guilty that I bring things to share with her and then don't. I feel guilty that I know a part of me wants to trust her, but I don't let it. Guilt I can feel, safe I can't.
Poet
Posted by shrinking violet on May 14, 2005, at 16:07:22
In reply to T on Why I Don't Feel Safe, posted by Poet on May 14, 2005, at 14:47:13
safest hugs {{{{{{{{{poet}}}}}}}}}
Reading what you wrote, what your T said, it was a kind of deja-vu moment as my T has said very similar things to me. I wish, now, that I had listened more at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20 though I guess.
Even though you've been afraid, you've made some great progress with your T. And if you think back, and re-read some of your older posts, you have progressed A LOT in terms of trusting her. Are you 100% yet? No. But it's a process, and you are gaining progress. Give yourself some credit, ok? :-)
I'm proud of you.
SV
Posted by Daisym on May 15, 2005, at 12:34:42
In reply to T on Why I Don't Feel Safe, posted by Poet on May 14, 2005, at 14:47:13
Just acknowledging that you have those defenses is a good first step. And I do think you have felt "safer" because you shared some really hard things and on occasion, left your writing with her. These are huge steps.
Have you ever let yourself imagine what being fully open and trusting with her would feel like? Just in the privacy of your own head. I think if you can begin to day-dream about it, it might help build some more trust that it won't be a bad thing.
My therapist tells me that I have these self-protective parts for a very good reason. And he isn't about to rip them down or make me feel forced in anyway to do something I'm not ready for. And I think it is a cycle. There have been days that I feel completely safe and OK with all my dependency. And there are times, like now, that I'm completely walled off again. I WANT to feel connected to him but I don't actually feel it.
Keep talking about it. Focus on the things that you do trust her with. If you are anything like me, I trust him, I don't trust myself. I'm afraid of what might come out and how I might handle things. I don't want to hurt anyone or wreck the relationship foundation that has been established. There is also something for me about letting anyone know I want this so much. It feels dangerous, like they could use it against me somehow. I think that is an old tape.
You'll get there. Maybe you could change the word "safe" to "relaxed"? It might make it easier to think about.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by pinkeye on May 15, 2005, at 13:05:16
In reply to T on Why I Don't Feel Safe, posted by Poet on May 14, 2005, at 14:47:13
Would it help you if you just imagined her as someone you had been close with in the past? I guess kind of induce some transference in yourself?
Posted by littleone on May 15, 2005, at 16:03:50
In reply to T on Why I Don't Feel Safe, posted by Poet on May 14, 2005, at 14:47:13
> She makes complete sense, but I still ran out of her office without leaving her anything I'd written (again.) I feel guilty that I bring things to share with her and then don't.
I write stuff for my T all the time, but I would never willingly just offer any of it to him. He needs to ask for it. So every session, he asks if I've written anything for him and he hounds me until I hand it over.
Could you suggest to your T that she ask you for your written stuff every single session? Even if you have to suggest it in a note?
Posted by Poet on May 15, 2005, at 23:21:59
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe » Poet, posted by shrinking violet on May 14, 2005, at 16:07:22
HI SV,
My T has said *do you hear what I'm saying?* more than once. I hear it, but I don't store it in memory, I just cover it with my own tape of I am a failure.
You're right, I have grown in trusting her, but the growth is so slow. I know that therapy is baby steps, but sometimes this big baby can't even crawl. I just sit there, well you know, I wish you didn't know.
Thanks for the support and encouragement. I will try to mail her what I wrote if I don't rip it up first.
Poet
Posted by Poet on May 15, 2005, at 23:40:35
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe » Poet, posted by Daisym on May 15, 2005, at 12:34:42
Hi Daisy,
I can try to think relaxed versus safe, that might help me a little bit. I equate safe with being all alone. Relaxed might be easier for me to think about.
I've never tried to imagine what being open with her would feel like. She's tried to get me to do it in therapy, but I just shut down. I can try to just picture it in my head, without out her sitting there waiting for a response. That might be easier.
I understand the walls you are building. Mine are very sturdy and if one gets cracked, I instantly repair it. Like you, a part of me wants to be connected to my T, but I just am not fully feeling it. I don't trust myself, I am my own worst enemy.
Thanks for your advice. I hope things get better quickly for you, you don't deserve all the stress.
Poet
Posted by Poet on May 15, 2005, at 23:44:27
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe » Poet, posted by pinkeye on May 15, 2005, at 13:05:16
Hi Pinkeye,
I've never really opened up fully to anyone. I let people see little bits of what I trust them with. What I should try to push myself to do is let her read the poetry I wrote when I was a teenager. I let a teacher read much of it and I call myself Poet on babble because she really liked what I wrote.
Maybe I can induce transference if I let her read what my teacher got to read. Interesting idea and if anything I could photocopy the poems and hand them to her and run.
Thanks for your help.
Poet
Posted by Poet on May 15, 2005, at 23:47:37
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe » Poet, posted by littleone on May 15, 2005, at 16:03:50
Hi Littleone,
You've made a really good point. The only time I ever asked her if she wanted to see what I'd written was when she gave me a writing assignment. It felt like homework that I had to hand in. Otherwise unless she asks if I want to leave her anything, I don't.
Maybe I could hand her what I wrote with a note on it, even if it's on the way out the door. Then she'd know it's okay to ask me for it next time. She'd never push me to hand it over, but I know she'd ask more than once.
Poet
Posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 8:50:52
In reply to T on Why I Don't Feel Safe, posted by Poet on May 14, 2005, at 14:47:13
> She thinks that I push people away because I am terrified of having relationships including one with her. So I reject people before they can reject me. Even though I know that she isn't going to reject me, I still put up my *walls* and try to shut her out.
>
> That I built those walls because I needed to protect myself from certain people. I don't need to protect myself from everybody. be seeing her .... That she wishes that I could just stop being stubborn and realize that my self protection isn't necessary. That I am hurting myself, not helping myself.
>
>
Wow, boy do I indentify with you on this. This is my main problem in my life. Starting with my parents, friends, they have let me down. Now instead of trusting openly, I let stupid things about the other person get in the way of developing a realtionship with them. I look for the faults so I won't be hurt in the relationship. The problem is that everyone has faults, and everyone CAN hurt me, so I don't let myself open up to new relationships. If I don't trust them all the way, then it gives me the option to duck out of the friendship before they reject or hurt me.
I am finally trusting my T, it is a scary feeling for me. But the problem is that it isn't a real friendship, so I will probably get hurt all over again when my therapy is over. So I am going to try to make friends again in my life, so maybe before therapy is over, I will have real people in my life. Maybe losing my T won't hurt so bad if I have others in my life to take over for support. But for now, my T is showing me that I can trust SOMEONE, he isn't letting me down. He has taught me so much, even more than he probably realizes. At least I feel there is hope now.
Posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 18:18:15
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe, posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 8:50:52
I identified so much with your post about finally trusting the T and knowing that he is going to let you down one day. My guess is Ts are not the right persons to trust with sometime. I don't know.
I also felt the same about my ex T. I finally opened up and completely trusted one person, and then that person terminated me one day. It kind of sucks. But I don't know.
I know your therapy relationship is supposed to help you feel closer to other people, and in a way, I do that now. I am a lot closer to people in life now than I was before therapy. But I wonder if I would ever have the guts to trust a man fully again. I am not sure.
Posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 18:29:56
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 18:18:15
I think it is okay to trust your T with your problems and personal life. That is there job and what they are suppose to do. They do this with all their clients. We are not anything special. They have lots of clients. But I guess if you expect them to be there for you forever and love you always you will get disapointed. Hopefully therapy will get you to the place in real life where you can learn to trust people for real relationships. That would be the biggest compliment for your T if he knows you are now living your life fully. Heck, even real relationships disolve too sometimes. Remember boys in high school who only wanted to go out with you for one thing? Well we are like those boys except we only want the emotional attachment with the T. But that is all we get and it is all over some day. I guess I am twisted today.
Posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 18:41:43
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe, posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 18:29:56
It is interesting to me that you compare us to the boys. That is perhaps true. I think every client wants the T to be very attached to them and be there always for them and love them always etc. And somehow we expect to get it, and we get it during the course of therapy, but after it is over, we don't get it anymore, so we become disappointed and frustrated and even angry with the T. Maybe it is part of the regular separation process.. perhaps that is the way our emotions work.
I think the right thing for a client to do is to understand that the T's part in their life is over, and get it, and move on and try to use what you learnt in therapy in real life. But it is not as easy as it sounds. For one thing is, T relationship become like a personal relationship rather than like a business transaction. So it is not easy for the client to understand that it is over. Especially if the T has been genuinely concerned and is a good person.
Posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 20:03:33
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 18:41:43
One thing that is helping is thinking therapy is like school. We all have a favorite teacher that we learned so much from and loved but at the end of the school year, we have to move on to another one. But you always remember that special teacher who remains in your heart. But you move on to other teachers. I guess I am just trying not to get hurt, but I think I will miss my T so much after therapy. If I could, I would marry him and be his lover forever, but I can't ! lol So I am just dating someone out of my league! lol He will never commit to me, so I will have to move on!
Posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 20:06:37
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe, posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 20:03:33
Posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 20:20:35
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe, posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 20:03:33
But what irks me the most is that you have to stop ALL CONTACT. That is what hurts me the most. I don't care to ever be the therapists wife or lover or even friend for that matter.
This kind of abrupt termination really sucks.
Posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 20:32:35
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 20:20:35
(my gunboats, actually)
Maybe therapy has to end for some people. But not everyone. I knew someone who had the same therapist most of her adult life and remembered him in her will. Some people disapproved, but I don't (well, I don't anymore).
My therapist says that, barring anything unforseen, I can go to therapy with him as long as I want to, and he'll do his best to outlive me.
Yeah, he might be just saying that to get the overwhelming monster of termination out of the room so that it was possible for me to focus on something else. But on the other hand, he doesn't actually lie to me.
Posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 20:34:08
In reply to I'm about to stomp my dainty digits, posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 20:32:35
You could of course, just add "except Dinah" and I promise not to tantrum.
Because my body weighs almost two hundred pounds and it ain't pretty when I stomp my feet.
:-)
Posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 20:37:49
In reply to Re: I'm about to stomp my dainty digits, posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 20:34:08
Posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 20:37:51
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 20:20:35
I agree with you on that. But what I don't understand is that the one of the reasons you can't have a real life relationship with your T is because if you need therapy in the future, you can return to T for therapy. But if you were friends, you would need to find another T. So if they say no contact at all, I just don't get it unless it was transfered to another T, because that T has problems with countertransference. But I guess if a T stayed in contact with every client, then they wouldn't be able to concentrate on the current clients because they would be too busy. Did you T say no contact, pinkeye?
Posted by pinkeye on May 16, 2005, at 20:43:18
In reply to Re: T on Why I Don't Feel Safe » pinkeye, posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 20:37:51
Not explicity, but he sent a mail one day asking me to relieve him of his duty of being my psychiatrist. And hasn't responded further. I must have sent him about 4 mails after that. He hasn't responded. And it has been 4 months. So I don't think he would ever respond.
I think it was really really cruel. I don't know why he did it.
But he had retired from practice 3 months prior to my termination, and I had told him I will keep only minimal contact with him. But I had no forewarning that this was coming down the pipe. Or maybe I thought I should terminate myself since he retired, but couldn't bring myself to do it. And I had started going to another T here in the US.
But my termination hurt very deeply. One mail and that is it. I still cry when I think of it.
Posted by happyflower on May 16, 2005, at 20:57:50
In reply to Re: I'm about to stomp my dainty digits, posted by Dinah on May 16, 2005, at 20:34:08
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.