![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 83. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by meAgain on November 21, 2009, at 22:22:09
I have take meds for mental issues and have been feeling ashamed because I feel like I should not rely on anything but God. Am I being unfaithful by taking medication?
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 26, 2009, at 7:24:12
In reply to Is taking medication being unfaithful to God?, posted by meAgain on November 21, 2009, at 22:22:09
mA,
You wrote,[...Am I being unfaithful (to God?) by taking medication?...].
In order for a discussion from my view to continue, I would need to know the folllowing.
A. Is the unfaithfulness to God?
B. If so, which God?
C. What are the criteria that you use to determine if a substance is or is not a {medication}?
D. other questions not stated
Lou
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2009, at 15:27:27
In reply to Is taking medication being unfaithful to God?, posted by meAgain on November 21, 2009, at 22:22:09
Would you consider it unfaithful to God to take an antibiotic? Or to apply pressure to a wound?
Our bodies, including our brains, sometimes need help. God gave us the intelligence, the will, and the opposable thumbs needed to overcome challenges. As long as you use those things to do His will, why would God not wish for you to be at your best, to better accomplish what He would have you do?
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 18, 2009, at 6:20:32
In reply to Re: Is taking medication being unfaithful to God? » meAgain, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2009, at 15:27:27
> Would you consider it unfaithful to God to take an antibiotic? Or to apply pressure to a wound?
>
> Our bodies, including our brains, sometimes need help. God gave us the intelligence, the will, and the opposable thumbs needed to overcome challenges. As long as you use those things to do His will, why would God not wish for you to be at your best, to better accomplish what He would have you do?Dinah,
You wrote,[...would you (the initial poster) consider it unfaithful to God to take an antibiotic?...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here by that. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Would you consider it unfaithful to God to take an antibiotic?
B. If not, I am unsure as to
1. Which God you are refering to, if you consider that there are many Gods. If you do not consider that there aere many Gods, is the God that you are refering to the same God that the Jews give service and worship to?
2. If you consider an antibiotic a substance that has mind-altering properties or not?
3. If mind-altering drugs are or are not considered by you to be of a nature that the God that you may be referring to will cast those that traffic or use them into the Lake of Fire.
4. Other questions not stated
Lou
Posted by Kath on December 19, 2009, at 19:27:02
In reply to Is taking medication being unfaithful to God?, posted by meAgain on November 21, 2009, at 22:22:09
> I have take meds for mental issues and have been feeling ashamed because I feel like I should not rely on anything but God. Am I being unfaithful by taking medication?
I personally, do not believe that ANY God would have a problem with people taking medicine for an illness. I mean, if you relied ONLY on God to take care of the nourishment of your physical body, you could feel guilty for eating, or for taking supplements.
I don't like to discuss my beliefs much, but I do believe that this is a good idea to live by:
do your very best & leave the rest to God (the God of your choice).
So I think it is good to do whatever you can to take care of your God-given mind & body.
I don't have the mental energy to go into explaining what I mean by the different points. I replied because my heart went out to you.
God Bless You.
Kath
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 19, 2009, at 20:20:44
In reply to Re: Is taking medication being unfaithful to God? » meAgain, posted by Kath on December 19, 2009, at 19:27:02
> > I have take meds for mental issues and have been feeling ashamed because I feel like I should not rely on anything but God. Am I being unfaithful by taking medication?
>
> I personally, do not believe that ANY God would have a problem with people taking medicine for an illness. I mean, if you relied ONLY on God to take care of the nourishment of your physical body, you could feel guilty for eating, or for taking supplements.
>
> I don't like to discuss my beliefs much, but I do believe that this is a good idea to live by:
>
> do your very best & leave the rest to God (the God of your choice).
>
> So I think it is good to do whatever you can to take care of your God-given mind & body.
>
> I don't have the mental energy to go into explaining what I mean by the different points. I replied because my heart went out to you.
>
> God Bless You.
>
> KathFriends,
It is written here,[...I..do not believe that ANY God would have a problem with people taking medicine for an illness...]
The statement is inclusive to the God of the Jews because of the use of the word,{ANY}.
Now that is what the poster believes as the post states. But I ask you to ask yourselves, in relation to if the God in question is the God that the Jews give service and worship to,
A. What is a medicine?
B. What is an illness?
C. Are mind-altering drugs medicines?
D. Is there explicit warnings given in the scriptures that the Jews and Christians use that taking mind-altering drugs could cause death and result in the user of them or the people that make them or supply them to be cast into the Lake of Fire?
Lou
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2009, at 16:17:06
In reply to Is taking medication being unfaithful to God?, posted by meAgain on November 21, 2009, at 22:22:09
> I have take meds for mental issues and have been feeling ashamed because I feel like I should not rely on anything but God. Am I being unfaithful by taking medication?
I think it is important to understand that many mental issues have biological components that one has little or no control over. You are not weak.
I really like what Dinah and Kath had to say. God has given to man many gifts, including those that can heal or ease pain and suffering. I believe that the invention of psychotropic drugs is one such gift.
I hope that you resolve your spiritual dilemma.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 20, 2009, at 16:47:25
In reply to Re: Is taking medication being unfaithful to God? » meAgain, posted by SLS on December 20, 2009, at 16:17:06
> > I have take meds for mental issues and have been feeling ashamed because I feel like I should not rely on anything but God. Am I being unfaithful by taking medication?
>
> I think it is important to understand that many mental issues have biological components that one has little or no control over. You are not weak.
>
> I really like what Dinah and Kath had to say. God has given to man many gifts, including those that can heal or ease pain and suffering. I believe that the invention of psychotropic drugs is one such gift.
>
> I hope that you resolve your spiritual dilemma.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote,[...God has given..many gifts...I believe that the invention of psychotropic drugs is one such gift...]
I am unsure as to what you wrote includes or not. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Which God, if you believe that their is more than one God, are you referring to?
B. If the God that you are referring to is the God that the Jews and Christians give service and worship to, are you aquainted with what their scriptures say concerning healing and mind-altering drugs?
C. What criteria could you post here leads you to believing that psychotropic drugs are a gift from the God that you are referring to?
D. Are all psychotropic drugs in your belief a gift from the God that you are referring to including the ones that have been removed from the market because they cause death?
E. Other questions not stated.
Lou
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2009, at 17:07:09
In reply to Lou's request- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on December 20, 2009, at 16:47:25
> Scott,
Lou,
> You wrote,[...God has given..many gifts...I believe that the invention of psychotropic drugs is one such gift...]
> I am unsure as to what you wrote includes or not. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. Which God, if you believe that their is more than one God, are you referring to?The One.
> B. If the God that you are referring to is the God that the Jews and Christians give service and worship to,
The way I see it, there is only One, regardless of whom presumes ownership.
> are you aquainted with what their scriptures say concerning healing and mind-altering drugs?
Enlighten me, please.
> C. What criteria could you post here leads you to believing that psychotropic drugs are a gift from the God that you are referring to?
I guess the criteria are in the mind of the beholder of the gifts.
> D. Are all psychotropic drugs in your belief a gift from the God
I believe one must take into consideration the gestault that is the Universe. There is no perfection except for in the One.
> they cause death?
Which ones are you referring to? You mean, like Tylenol?
> E. Other questions not stated.
Other answers not offered.
:-)
Thanks for opportunity to spend some time away from the stove.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 20, 2009, at 17:44:54
In reply to Re: Lou's request-, posted by SLS on December 20, 2009, at 17:07:09
> > Scott,
>
> Lou,
>
> > You wrote,[...God has given..many gifts...I believe that the invention of psychotropic drugs is one such gift...]
> > I am unsure as to what you wrote includes or not. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > A. Which God, if you believe that their is more than one God, are you referring to?
>
> The One.
>
> > B. If the God that you are referring to is the God that the Jews and Christians give service and worship to,
>
> The way I see it, there is only One, regardless of whom presumes ownership.
>
> > are you aquainted with what their scriptures say concerning healing and mind-altering drugs?
>
> Enlighten me, please.
>
> > C. What criteria could you post here leads you to believing that psychotropic drugs are a gift from the God that you are referring to?
>
> I guess the criteria are in the mind of the beholder of the gifts.
>
> > D. Are all psychotropic drugs in your belief a gift from the God
>
> I believe one must take into consideration the gestault that is the Universe. There is no perfection except for in the One.
>
> > they cause death?
>
> Which ones are you referring to? You mean, like Tylenol?
>
> > E. Other questions not stated.
>
> Other answers not offered.
>
> :-)
>
> Thanks for opportunity to spend some time away from the stove.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote,[...enlighten me...{scriptures that the Jews use in relation to mind-altering drugs)...]
Some of the scripturs that have been revealed to me concerning this topic are the foundation for other scriptures relating to healing and mind-altering drugs.
One that has been prominate in my journey here is Psalm 103, the 3erd verse that reads as,[...God has promised to heal all our diseases...].
Now that promise to me is the foundation for my belief. I have taken the God that the Jews give service and worship to at His Word.
Then in the book called Exodus, in the 15th chapter, the 26th verse, it reads,[...I am the Lord that heals you...].
Now if those scriptures are true, then do we not have a foundation to build on to seek healing?
Lou
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2009, at 18:00:55
In reply to Lou's reply- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on December 20, 2009, at 17:44:54
> Scott,
> You wrote,[...enlighten me...{scriptures that the Jews use in relation to mind-altering drugs)...]
> Some of the scripturs that have been revealed to me concerning this topic are the foundation for other scriptures relating to healing and mind-altering drugs.
> One that has been prominate in my journey here is Psalm 103, the 3erd verse that reads as,[...God has promised to heal all our diseases...].Perhaps He has been doing this all along through conduits that you have not yet recognized.
> Now if those scriptures are true, then do we not have a foundation to build on to seek healing?
Can man heal man? If man is created in God's image, then is not man's healing man not a conduit for what the scriptures speak of?
I'm just sayin' is all.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 20, 2009, at 18:56:41
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on December 20, 2009, at 18:00:55
> > Scott,
> > You wrote,[...enlighten me...{scriptures that the Jews use in relation to mind-altering drugs)...]
> > Some of the scripturs that have been revealed to me concerning this topic are the foundation for other scriptures relating to healing and mind-altering drugs.
> > One that has been prominate in my journey here is Psalm 103, the 3erd verse that reads as,[...God has promised to heal all our diseases...].
>
> Perhaps He has been doing this all along through conduits that you have not yet recognized.
>
> > Now if those scriptures are true, then do we not have a foundation to build on to seek healing?
>
> Can man heal man? If man is created in God's image, then is not man's healing man not a conduit for what the scriptures speak of?
>
> I'm just sayin' is all.
>
>
> - Scott
>
> Scott,
You wrote,[...is not man healing man not a conduit for what the scriptures speak of?..]
You have introduced a very important topic in relation to this discussion. But let uss look at another scripture and then I could build on what you have asked.
One verse that has been revealed to me in regards to this topic is in the book called Isaiah, the 45th chapter, the 22end verse which reads,
[...Look to me and you will be healed...].
So the principle here is that somehow thwere is aconnection to looking to God, as the Jews believe, and healing.
In that verse, we have a directive as to who to look to for healing and if one belives that is true, we could build on that aspect of the scripture.
In relation to your question, I am unsure as to all of what you want it to mean or not mean. If you could post more about what you mean, then I could respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2009, at 20:27:28
In reply to Lou's reply- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on December 20, 2009, at 18:56:41
> In that verse, we have a directive as to who to look to for healing and if one belives that is true, we could build on that aspect of the scripture.
All that is must be a manifestation of God, or it would not be at all. God is omnipresent. He is everywhere you look. So, in what direction would you like to begin looking for His healing?
> In relation to your question, I am unsure as to all of what you want it to mean or not mean.
>
> If you could post more about what you mean, then I could respond accordingly.It might be interesting for you to offer a series of possible interpretations of my words, as they might have no meaning at all except for that which you find in them for yourself.
Much of what occurs in my mind is non-verbal and multidirectional, as I imagine is the case with most people. To try to put my thoughts regarding these matters into words is sometimes difficult. When it comes to trying to understand the nature of existence and produce a conceptualization of Truth, I usually don't have sufficient words to say what I mean. All I can do is to try to mean what I say. That is challenging enough for me.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 21, 2009, at 7:57:07
In reply to Re: Lou's request-, posted by SLS on December 20, 2009, at 17:07:09
Scott,
You wrote,[...there is xxxx One...]
Could you post an authoruty here for that claim that as you see it?
Lou
Posted by SLS on December 21, 2009, at 8:37:39
In reply to Lou's request-ohnleigh » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on December 21, 2009, at 7:57:07
> Scott,
> You wrote,[...there is xxxx One...]
> Could you post an authoruty here for that claim that as you see it?
> LouSorry, Lou, I cannot. It is a matter of intellect and faith. The Truth is unknowable but for in the mind of God. There is no other authority.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 21, 2009, at 8:55:24
In reply to Re: Lou's request-ohnleigh » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on December 21, 2009, at 8:37:39
Scott,
You wrote,[...the truth is xxxxxxxxx...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that claim. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Could you post here an example of a truth that is xxxxxxxx?
B. If another states that they know a truth because they believe that the scriptures that the Jews use are truth, how would you catagorize that person in relation to your claim in relation to that they think that they know a truth, and you write that the truth is xxxxxxxxx?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 21, 2009, at 9:17:08
In reply to Lou's reply-wdovgd » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on December 21, 2009, at 8:55:24
> Scott,
> You wrote,[...the truth is xxxxxxxxx...]
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that claim. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. Could you post here an example of a truth that is xxxxxxxx?
> B. If another states that they know a truth because they believe that the scriptures that the Jews use are truth, how would you catagorize that person in relation to your claim in relation to that they think that they know a truth, and you write that the truth is xxxxxxxxx?
> LouScott and friends,
I am withdrawing the above post here. My apology for any unintended meaning.
Lou
Posted by SLS on December 21, 2009, at 9:19:22
In reply to Lou's reply-wdovgd » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on December 21, 2009, at 8:55:24
> B. If another states that they know a truth because they believe that the scriptures that the Jews use are truth, how would you catagorize that person in relation to your claim in relation to that they think that they know a truth, and you write that the truth is xxxxxxxxx?
> LouI have succinctly expressed my views. Let us now come to know yours. Then, perhaps, we can determine for ourselves whether or not further discourse on this matter is desirable.
Who or what do you deem to be the ultimate authority on what is Truth?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 21, 2009, at 10:04:12
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-wdovgd » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on December 21, 2009, at 9:19:22
> > B. If another states that they know a truth because they believe that the scriptures that the Jews use are truth, how would you catagorize that person in relation to your claim in relation to that they think that they know a truth, and you write that the truth is xxxxxxxxx?
> > Lou
>
> I have succinctly expressed my views. Let us now come to know yours. Then, perhaps, we can determine for ourselves whether or not further discourse on this matter is desirable.
>
> Who or what do you deem to be the ultimate authority on what is Truth?
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote,[...my views...yours....authority on what is truth?...further discorse desirable?...].
The thread is about a member that has a concern as to if taking medications for mental issues is being unfaithful to God. That brought up as to which God the member was refewring to and what was considered to be a medication.
This generated your responses as to that in your view there is xxxx One and that the truth is yyyyyyyyy. You now ask for my view concerning the authority for truth and also ask if further discorse is desirable.
I am unsure as to if I can continue here in this thread. There have been rules made to me by Mr. Hsiung and his deputies that threaten me with expulsion from this commuinity if I was to post what my views are here concerning your request to me.
Mr. Hsiung also allows statements that could lead a Jew to feel put down/accused to stand without a notation that those statements are uncivil. This leads to the potential IMO for others to think that there are two standards here which could lead to me being a victim of anti-Semitic violence. Mr. Hsiung has allowed ancient stereotypes defaming Jews to remain unsanctioned as being uncivil and just a few members here have emailed me with their concern that they do not want to be considerd to be condoning the administration's actions. There are numerous requests to the administartion that are outstanding from me that have the potential IMO to show indifference to the Jew's concerns of those statements of that nature being allowed to stand.
Lou
Posted by SLS on December 21, 2009, at 10:45:52
In reply to Lou's reply-tustn? » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on December 21, 2009, at 10:04:12
Lou, I don't think that the differences in our thought styles and spiritual constructs will allow for a meaningful discourse between us regarding the questions you posed to several of us regarding which god any of us refer to.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 21, 2009, at 10:54:01
In reply to Is taking medication being unfaithful to God?, posted by meAgain on November 21, 2009, at 22:22:09
> I have take meds for mental issues and have been feeling ashamed because I feel like I should not rely on anything but God. Am I being unfaithful by taking medication?
Sorry for the digression.
Have you consulted clergy regarding your spiritual questions?
I wish I could guide you in the direction of the answers that will serve you best. I am glad you posted your question here, though. I am sure that you are not the only person to have arrived at the point of asking it.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 22, 2009, at 7:31:30
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-tustn? » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on December 21, 2009, at 10:45:52
> Lou, I don't think that the differences in our thought styles and spiritual constructs will allow for a meaningful discourse between us regarding the questions you posed to several of us regarding which god any of us refer to.
>
>
> - Scott
> Scott,
You wrote,[...between us...regarding which god any of us refer to.
I think that the god in question in a discussion, if identified, could allow the members in that type of discussion to better focus on, as in this case, the way that that God wants people to use or not use mind-altering drugs and to define what a medication is or is not according to that god.
In this thread, I have replied to the poster innitiating the thread with that if I was to know which god the member was referring to, then I could offer my views or not.
I have seen many positions on the aspect of taking medicine and what is or is not a medicine in relation to someone's views concerning what they think their god wants them to do in relation to taking mind-altering drugs and as to what a medicine is or is not.
So I do agree with you in that you wrote,[...I don't think...will allow...]in relation to a discussion between {us} because I could give my view concerning the God that I give service and worship to but not, let's say, the God that Hitler gave service and worship to, or let's say, the God that is represented in the Alhambra Decree that those people that embraced that give service and worship to. Hitler said that he was doing the will of the Almighty God. I ask, which god there and I ask which god here in any discussion concerning what someone wants to know about God's position, as in this case, taking mind-altering drugs and what is a medicine according to that god in question if I was to know.
I will await a reply to me here from a member that will identify the God that they give service and worship to if they would want to have discussion.
Lou
>
>
Posted by SLS on December 22, 2009, at 9:24:19
In reply to Lou's reply-whichgd2? » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on December 22, 2009, at 7:31:30
As I said in a previous post, I think our ways of thinking are far too different for us to continue having a dialogue regarding the conceptualization of deity.
With respect to the original poster's question, it falls within my belief system that using psychotropic drugs to treat illness does not render one as being unfaithful to God. It is often said that God works in many ways. I believe that the practice of medicine is one of them.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 22, 2009, at 12:14:34
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-whichgd2? » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on December 22, 2009, at 9:24:19
> As I said in a previous post, I think our ways of thinking are far too different for us to continue having a dialogue regarding the conceptualization of deity.
>
> With respect to the original poster's question, it falls within my belief system that using psychotropic drugs to treat illness does not render one as being unfaithful to God. It is often said that God works in many ways. I believe that the practice of medicine is one of them.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote,[...far too different..the conceptualization of deity...it falls into my belief...using psychotropic drugs to treat illness does not render one unfaithful to God...God works in many ways...the practice of medicine is one of them...]
We may have too different gods as you state here to continue to have dialog concerning that, but maybe not if more was disclosed.
The conceptualization of a god is not what I am intending to have discusssion here about, but for one interested as to what their god wants for them in relation to if taking psychotropic drugs as a medicine is or is not being unfaithful to their ggod or not. I could not post my views unless I was to know which God the member was referring to.
You write that in your belief system [...using psychotropic drugs to treat illness does not render one being unfaithful to {god}....].
That is your belief, but I am unsure as to if you are wanting to mean or not the folllowing. If you could post here as to if you do or do not want to mean the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. The {god} that you are referring to is not identified by you but is a what is known as pantheism.
B. The god that I am referring to is (omit)
C. The member that innitiated this thread could have a different god than you
D. The God that the Jews give service and worship to could be a different god than the god that you are referring to
E. The scriptures that the Jews use that they consider to be the Word of God is accepted by you as truth.
F. The member that innitiated this thread could find the answer to their question by going outside of the scriptures that the member uses, if the member uses scripture in their belief of their God, in their service and worship of God.
G. If God works in many ways, it would be prudent for one that accepts the scriptures that the Jews use as truth to them, in relation as to the way that God wants people to do in realtion to taking mind-altering drugs or not, and see if that God prescribes or not that those using mind-altering drugs will or will not be cast into the Lake of Fire according to those scriptures.
Lou
Posted by SLS on December 25, 2009, at 10:38:17
In reply to Is taking medication being unfaithful to God?, posted by meAgain on November 21, 2009, at 22:22:09
> I have take meds for mental issues and have been feeling ashamed because I feel like I should not rely on anything but God. Am I being unfaithful by taking medication?
I had no trouble finding this joke on the Internet. It is told quite often.
- Scott-------------------------------------------------
The Lord Will Save MeIt rained for days and days and there was a terrific flood. The water rose so high that one man was forced to climb on top of his roof and sat in the rain. As the waters came up higher a man in a rowboat came up to the house and told him to get in. "No thank you, the Lord will save me!" he said, and the man in the rowboat rowed away.
The waters rose to the edge of the roof and still the man sat on the roof until another rowboat came by and another man told him to get in. "No thank you, the Lord will save me!" he said again, and the man rowed away.
The waters covered the house and the man was forced to sit on his chimney as the rain poured down and a helicopter came by and another man urged him to get in or he'll drown. "No thank you," the man said again, "The Lord will save me!"
After much begging and pleading the man in the helicopter gave up and flew away. The waters rose above the chimney and the man drowned and went to heaven where he met God.
"Lord, I don't understand," he told Him, frustrated, "The waters rose higher and higher and I waited hours for you to save me but you didn't! Why?"
The Lord just shook his head and said, "What are you talking about? I sent two boats and a helicopter?!"
-------------------------------------------------
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Script revised: February 4, 2008
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