![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jeaner on November 27, 2010, at 19:34:14
My neurotransmitters are low but I can't take tryptophan because it gives me panic attacks. It took awile for this to happen so I wasn't sure what was doing it. I would wake up in the night in a night terror and for a few seconds not know where I was. It was as if I couldn't wake up. Maybe it really knocked me out. 5htp made me so sick to my stomic and I thought it was my gallbladder. I suffered for months till I realized what it was. That took 3 months to start bothering me, so it was hard to figure what was doing it. Saint johns wort makes me clench my teeth in the night I would wake up biting my tongue.Why would this be?Anyone else have any problem like this.
Posted by Christ_empowered on November 29, 2010, at 17:13:36
In reply to supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on November 27, 2010, at 19:34:14
maybe you need to give your serotonin a rest and just focus on stuff that will tranquilize you...niacinamide, kava, valerian, catnip, passion flower, etc. Just a thought.
Posted by morgan miller on November 29, 2010, at 18:18:33
In reply to supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on November 27, 2010, at 19:34:14
Why have you been trying serotonin boosting treatments? Depression? Anxiety? Sleep?
Things you should be trying if you are not already and are not doing anything else:
1)Clean up your diet and eat regularly
2)Exercise-moderate to intense followed by a meditative stretch
3)Omega 3s-either a high DHA to EPA ratio or a high EPA to DHA ration-whatever ends up working best
4)Therapy-this will be the biggest challenge. Find a good therapist that you feel comfortable with, preferably one with a Ph.D. in clinical psychology-your depression and/or anxiety is likely at least partially a result of deficiencies and traumas during crucial years of childhood development. Therapy is one of the best ways to grow so that you can learn to lover yourself more and have better relationships
Posted by jeaner on November 29, 2010, at 22:41:59
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by morgan miller on November 29, 2010, at 18:18:33
My diet is mostly organic and alot of raw. No sugar just stevia. No fast food or junk. No meat just eggs and salmon.I've watched my diet since 1992.I have chronic fatique so its a little hard to do much exersize. Doc put me on 5htp for low serotonin. I am pyroluric. Serotonin is very low. It should be at least 65 on the test and I was mid 20's.I am low in many other transmitters. I can take lphenylalanine for the dopamine and lglutamine for the gabba and phos.coline for the coline no problem. I take most all the supplements he said I need for pyroluria. The magnesium, b12, b complex which has lots of b6 -200 mg ,zinc .Its just the stuff for the serotonin and I can't take p5p or sam-e or saint john wort. I guess low serotonin is the reason for my depression, I don't know. I am ok now with panic attacks. They were terrible since my teens but gone when I started the b6 in the complex.I sleep ok.I seem to have days when I just want to cry and then I'm ok, up and down more down lately.Sometimes depression comes on me all of a sudden and goes as fast as it came. I don't know why I can feel good and then just really want to die. I also have suffered with ocd since I was little.Thats much better with the supps.I seem to want to be alone alot of the time. I can't handle stress. I tell my husband that life is just to hard for me. , not that he understands. It's a hard thing to live with this brain of mine.I don't think there is a doctor who can fix my head, maybe just medicate it and if I can't take amino's I'm sure meds would be bad for me.I read that they don't work for pyroluria.I don't want them anyway. I won't even take aspirin.Doctors can't understand. Sometimes I feel I'm alone in here and thats a scary place to be.I am a christian and I pray. Thats my life line. Thanks for the advice. It's kind of you.
Posted by Hombre on November 30, 2010, at 3:37:57
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on November 29, 2010, at 22:41:59
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with depression, jeaner.
If you haven't already, I'd think about taking some herbs, maybe some adaptogens like ashwagandha, eleuthero, and maybe ginseng.
Although we tend to consider depression as a problem with the brain, the whole body is really involved in regulating our moods and energy. Since even psychiatrists don't even know exactly how psyche meds work, it isn't always productive to focus on neurotransmitters.
I have had good results using Chinese herbal formulas to help me with my chronic fatigue. I've dealt with this for a long time, but more recently, from 2008-2010 I was barely able to function. Diets and supplements didn't work until I fixed the underlying problems with my digestion and energy metabolism.
Check out some of my posts on this, the alternative board, and consider that maybe herbs may be a blessing that could help you with your illness. I certainly see them in that light, and am thankful I finally gave them a serious try.
You are not alone, and you can get better. You must believe that.
Posted by jeaner on November 30, 2010, at 9:08:55
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by Hombre on November 30, 2010, at 3:37:57
I have graves disease and am on thyroid meds so I cant take these herbs.Ginseng makes me hyper.Thank you for the response.
Posted by Chan Fook on November 30, 2010, at 9:12:52
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by Hombre on November 30, 2010, at 3:37:57
Hi Jeaner,
I used to take 100mg of 5HTP at bedtime by itself and I would also have nightmares (not as bad as yours sound). 5HTP, I've seen in other people too, seem to make dreams very vivid. Personally I don't get this that often, but today I know I had a nightmare although remember very little from it (I suffer from poor short-term memory and find it difficult to remember dreams for example).
My solution was to lower my dosage to 50mg before I started to take Ashwagandha to which I maintain it at 50mg 5-htp in the morning, 100mg at night. Now I rarely get nightmares (last night was maybe once in a fortnight now).
So, I say try to lower the dosage, let the 5HTP enter your system slowly. It takes some time to reach a desired effect. 50mg in the morning and 50mg in the evening should be fine. If that's too much, maybe try find a lower dosage than 50mg but I don't know of a capsule that has that.
Hope this helps,
Chan Fook.
Posted by Lao Tzu on November 30, 2010, at 9:48:17
In reply to supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on November 27, 2010, at 19:34:14
Maybe you are real sensitive to tryptophan or 5htp supplements. One natural choice would be SAM-E. It's supposed to be a very effective natural antidepressant. Another thing to consider is a deficiency in certain fatty acids, namely fish oil and borage oil. Some people need just the fish oil, but others need both kinds. I don't know where you would fit in. The only way is to try it if your doctor approves. If your neurotransmitters are low, there are many antidepressants you could try at a lower dosage, namely, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Remeron, Wellbutrin, etc. Maybe a low dosage of one of these would help. Are you really opposed to using medication? I find that a low dosage of an antidepressant helps as long as I take my other vitamins. Other deficiencies to consider are vitamins E and C, selenium, and certain B vitamins, like B1, B12, and B6. If you are pyroluric, you definitely need B6 and Zinc. Are you using the right kind of zinc? I find that zinc picolinate works best for me. It is a superior form of zinc. There is always a beneficial solution to the depression and an underlying cause. I am not trying to preach or anything, just giving some suggestions. I have schizophrenia, so my case is rather extreme. I absolutely need to be on meds for my condition, but I do find that combining a little medication with the vitamins that you need may go a long way in helping the depression. This has been my experience through many years of suffering. I really hope you can find the missing pieces of the puzzle for yourself. You might ask the doctor about SAM-E if you don't like conventional medicine, but I find that if you are on the right medication, it will make a difference as long as you also take your vitamins everyday. I have found that the medication alone won't heal your depression if you also have nutrient deficiencies. I am not trying to give you any advice. I just hope you can find some answers for yourself.
Lao
Posted by Lao Tzu on November 30, 2010, at 9:56:30
In reply to supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on November 27, 2010, at 19:34:14
Another thing I want to bring up is that some people who are depressed actually have adequate serotonin, but seem to lack in dopamine and norepinephrine and maybe other neurotransmitters as well. It's very complicated to know which neurotransmitters a given individual will respond to. I think doctors will try different medications to see which works best. In the past, I have had some success with Remeron (mirtazapine), which works on serotonin and norepinephrine. Zoloft and Paxil would be good if you have low serotonin, but not good for one who has adequate serotonin. Another choice would be Wellbutrin, for people who need more dopamine and norepinephrine and less serotonin. So it really depends on what your needs are as far as the medication goes, but in addition to the medication, you need to address any nutrient deficiencies as well. Are you pyroluric, over-methylated, or under-methylated? Do you have problems with high or low histamine? There are so many factors involved in depression.
Lao
Posted by jeaner on November 30, 2010, at 10:20:52
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by Lao Tzu on November 30, 2010, at 9:56:30
Gee your well informed . I have pyroluria My count was 200. Now its about 20. All the transmitters you mentioned are low Histamine is low amd the doc said I don't methylate well. I guess that means low. I don't have the Mortons toe which is a blessing because coenzyme b bothers me. Sam-e keeps me awake.With pyroluria you can have a omega 6 def. so I don't take just 3 I take a combination 3-6-9-oil. 2 tablespoons a day. This doctors son had scizophrenia from birth and he treated him for pyroluria . He is well now he is also a doctor ,a veternarian.He said you can't treat scizophenia without either the b6 or the zinc I forget which one. He said alot of people with scizophrenia have pyroluria but alot of pyrolurics don't have scizophrenia. Have you been tested?I had labcore do the transmitter testing and they were wrong. The doctor said labcore tests plasma and they need to test platlets. Vitamin diagnostics is a better lab.
Posted by jeaner on November 30, 2010, at 10:31:20
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by Chan Fook on November 30, 2010, at 9:12:52
5htp make me sooo sick. I only took 50 mg at night. I'll never do it again . It took weeks to feel better. I thought it was a gallbladder attack. Thank God I found out what it was or I'd be without a gallbladder. You have little dream recall and poor memory if you are low in b6.B6 needs magnesium to work so you need both.I would never take b6 alone ,just a complex form because they all work together.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 1, 2010, at 9:12:14
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on November 30, 2010, at 10:20:52
Thank you for the information on testing neurotransmitters. Platelets, not plasma. I actually have never been tested, but I do know that my serotonin levels are normalized, and because I take an antipsychotic, my dopamine neurotransmission is more normalized. I take GABA at night for the inhibition because I have an anxiety disorder. The GABA (750mg) plus selenium, B6, and B12 combination really help my anxiety. I don't think GABA alone would do much without the other vitamins. I thought maybe I have low GABA levels, but I'm not sure. I think rather than having low levels, GABA may not be working efficiently and/or glutamate neurotransmission is aberrant. I also believe there might also be problems with norepinephrine neurotransmission because I have severe motivation issues, and norep. directs motivation. I tried taking DL-phenylalanine for the norep, and it helps a little, but by the end of the day, it wears off and then I feel tired. So I guess it's not the answer. Here's a good website that describes methylation, histamine, and which supplements to take for each type. As has been my experience, and some other people here have said so, there may be some overlap and you could actually be in more than one type. It's a good starter for someone who doesn't know what supplements to take. Have you ever had a mineral hair analysis done? To check for high copper, I mean. Then you actually may need manganese with the zinc. I found that I couldn't take the manganese at the exact same time as zinc. I had to take the manganese in the morning and the zinc in the afternoon. I no longer take the manganese, but for a few months it really did help me. I took about 10mg of manganese gluconate per day. That's all I could tolerate. It helped with my anxiety, and it is said to help with energy, but I never really felt energized by it. Same thing with zinc. It's supposed to help with energy, but I feel it only does so minimally in me.
http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/home.php
Thanks for your posts.Lao
Posted by jeaner on December 1, 2010, at 18:18:45
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by Lao Tzu on December 1, 2010, at 9:12:14
Yes I had my hair tested. I was off the chart high copper. Pyrolurics will get that from not anough zinc to get rid of it .It is now normal. I used to get premonitions alot and I spoke with a nurse nutritionist who said many of her patients get that with high copper. She said it goes away when they get the copper lowered. Strange ha.I don't take manganese. I think maybe the doc did not tell me to because I am low histamine and I read manganese lowerers histamine. I take lpenylalanine to raise dopamine that was normal last time tested so with b6 I guess it works.I was taking a different b complex for a few days because I ran out of my whole food based one. I became very depressed . I'm not sure why but the synthetic really bothered me.I am so sensitive to so many things.It takes along time to figure out just what is right for you. I have had doctors give me so much stuff and wasted so much money on things I can't take.The doctor told me there is a thing called Mortons toe. It is when your toe next to your big toe is longer than your big toe. My sister has this . He said when you have this you can not convert the b6 .You need the coenzyme form of b6 or it won't do you much good. There may be alot of people who are taking b6 and wonder why it doesn't help.
Posted by Hombre on December 1, 2010, at 19:03:16
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on November 30, 2010, at 9:08:55
Did your doctor tell you that you can't take any herbs? Not all herbs are the same, and hyperthyroidism has symptoms that are well recognized in Chinese herbal medicine. Sometimes herbs can reduce the amount of drugs you need to take.
Consider:
http://www.itmonline.org/arts/thyroid.htm
"Thyroid disease is common in China, and it is frequently treated by herbal medicine or a combination of herbs and drugs. Positive response is a common outcome: the aggregate "cure" rate for hyperthyroidism reported in more than a dozen studies involving more than 700 patients is 42%, with most other patients well-managed even after cessation of the therapy. By "cure," it is meant that the primary hyperthyroid symptoms are removed and that the laboratory measures (such as T3 and T4 levels and iodine uptake) are in the normal range. Clearly, it is not meant that there is any change in the underlying genetic propensity for autoimmunity, nor is it suggested that the immunologic memory of the T-cells is altered. Rather, the initiating factors for autoimmune attack appear to be diminished and, as shown in two studies, circulating antibodies against thyroid tissue are reduced. Follow-up studies of patients claimed to be cured during these treatment programs indicates persistence of the favorable outcome."
Posted by jeaner on December 1, 2010, at 20:52:48
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by Hombre on December 1, 2010, at 19:03:16
They make me hyper.Iodine makes me very hyper.I thought maybe the iodine was helping my thyroid and I could use less Armour thyroid, but I understand by researching that it activates the graves disease. I was young and uninformed when I got Graves. My heart was beating 130 times a minute. I was told after 2 years of meds to bring it down that I had to have radioactive iodine to kill off the thyroid. Bad move on my part , very bad move. I have not been the same since. It took a very long time to get as well as I am . I think I have some thyroid function and the iodine or Herbs that contain it may help my thyroid and maybe if the thyroid gets better the graves just attacks it again. What do you think??
Posted by Hombre on December 2, 2010, at 2:31:58
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on December 1, 2010, at 20:52:48
Unfortunately I do not know a lot about the endocrine system, but it is definitely an interest of mine. I don't have a thyroid condition, but my depression and my medications cause hypothyroid like symptoms, i.e. coldness, apathy, depression, etc.
I also know what it feels like to be overstimulated, with constant fast heartbeat, anxiety, agitation, inability to put on or maintain a healthy weight, insomnia, and phobias. Maybe similar to hyperthyroid, but not the same.
I found this:
http://www.longevity-center.com/thyroid_interview_2.html
"Alternative Medicine for Graves' Disease
Mary Shomon: Many patients who are in the throes of hyperthyroidism due to Graves' Disease are reluctant to try herbal medicine, because they have such acute symptoms - palpitations, high blood pressure, tremors, etc. Frequently they are being shepherded to quickly have radioactive iodine permanently disable their thyroid. Have you found any herbal remedies for hyperthyroidism that work quickly, or that can be pursued in conjunction with the use of antithyroid drugs or beta blockers that are used to help manage the acute phase?
Shasta Tayam: It depends on what you think quickly is. Generally, the more severe problems like hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism take a lot of treatments to get under control, and may need both western and eastern/complementary methods to treat and stabilize. The person's should always try to work with their whole environment, lifestyle, foods, medications, herbs, treatments, exercise etc. to get the best results. I have seen a combination of acupuncture (2 to 3x's a week), Chi Kung (exercise), less spicy and greasy foods and some herbal formulas with cooling uncongesting properties help a lot within two months. I have seen the fast pulse rate decrease and the protruding eyes go back in and a lot of the symptoms decrease with this more aggressive approach (3x's a week of acupuncture treatments for 3 months). The herbs used are again specific for the patient's constitution, sometimes strong Chinese herbs such as oyster shell and dragon bone are used, and in acute stages I have seen western herbs such as St. John's wort and kava kava along with valerian be used. Kava kava is very sedating and works quickly, however it is spicy and hyperthyroid people are too hot so this could create a problem, especially if used long term, so it is very tricky and should be monitored by a health care provider. I think it is safe to say that chamomile and peppermint tea (room temperature) along with Planetary Formulas Easy Sleep, Stress Free and possibly Bupleurum Calmative are good over the counter formulas. As far as taking herbs along with other hyperthyroid drugs, if the herbs are taken two to three hours from the drugs it would decreases the interaction and may help the body rebalance more quickly, but again this would need to be prescribed by a health care provider who was knowledgeable about herb drug interactions."
and this:
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/chinesemed.htm
"Mary Shomon: How does Chinese medicine view a thyroid problem such as hyperthyroidism?
Dr. Purdue: Well, again, one can look at some of the classic hyperthyroid symptoms such as weight loss, rapid heartbeat rate, elevated body temperature, insomnia, and profuse sweating, but have other symptoms that would need to be factored in. So let's say we have a patient with the above symptoms who also has a reddish facial complexion, gnawing hunger, acid regurgitation, frequent belching, and ringing in the ears. This patient could not be treated with the same formula and treatment as someone with the same hyperthyroid basic symptoms but a different group of other symptoms. We would follow the same approach as described for hypothyroid cases which would involve a customized formula to treat the patient's uniquenesses, dietary advice, and other lifestyle suggestions as appropriate. Our medicine is based upon pattern diagnosis rather than a Western-style disease "label."
Mary Shomon: When someone has an autoimmune thyroid condition (such as Hashimoto's, Thyroiditis, or Graves' disease), what are your thoughts about using some of the common "immune-boosting" Chinese herbs such as ginseng, codonopsis, astragalus, schisandra, and isatis.
Dr. Purdue: This is a very good question to ask since a lot of people are under the impression that because TCM is "old," and autoimmune conditions are "new," that they would not have a treatment approach. So, if you don't mind, I'd like to explain our approach to autoimmune conditions briefly before answering your questions about whether or not the herbs you asked about would be appropriate.
Another famous Chinese physician from the past was a fellow named Li Dong-Yuan. He was one of the four great master physicians of the Jin-Yuan dynasties period, which spanned a period of time from 1115 - 1368 AD His classic work is a text entitled Treatise on the Spleen and Stomach. In this text, he proposed a very complicated set of diagnostic principles and a group of treatments that is so involved that this was not taught to us in school. I had to learn about it during numerous, extensive postgraduate programs. When one understands what he was describing as far as conditions and symptoms, it is clear that he was observing, diagnosing and treating what we would call autoimmune diseases. So there is definitely nothing "new" about these conditions. And though Dr. Li figured out ways to approach and treat these conditions he still approached the condition in front of him in the same basic way, pattern diagnosis based upon the four examinations, treatment principle, medicinal formula.
Now to answer your question about the herbs you mentioned. Once one understands the TCM description of these medicinals, which is completely different than the Western pharmacological description of their actions, one can safely determine if a medicinal is appropriate. In some, and certainly not all, conditions of autoimmune disorder there may be an appropriate use for the medicinals which are labeled as being "immune-boosting" in the West. Ginseng, codonopsis and schisandra are thought to be "adaptogens" in the West, meaning that they tend to normalize function. Astragalus has been found to increase the activity of white blood cells, and there are several doctors who use it heavily in the treatment of cancer patients as there is some evidence that astragalus can "switch on" natural killer cells, the specialized white blood cells that target malignancies. Isatis has shown to have anti-viral activity and has even been used in some AIDS research. And even in the Western literature it is somewhat controversial as to whether these herbs actually "boost" the immune system in a way that could be a problem for autoimmune patients. However, this has nothing to do with the TCM description of these herbs function. In addition, the formulas that we use are polypharmacy. Many ingredients are involved and the synergistic interactions of the medicinal ingredients changes the function of the herbs if they were used individually.
So the moral of this story is that patients should not experiment with these medicinals on themselves, particularly in autoimmune conditions, and should seek the skills of a TCM practitioner who knows how to work these formulas. This is not an easy medicine to practice. It is far from the simplistic Western herbal approach of "if you have a headache take feverfew, and if you have a bellyache take peppermint tea." It is serious medicine, and should not be experimented with lightly.
Mary Shomon: Are there any books or websites you think are of particular interest to someone who wants to learn more about Traditional Chinese Medicine?
Dr. Purdue: Sure. A great book that explains this whole thing about pattern diagnosis and so on is The Web That Has No Weaver by Ted Kaptchuk. Blue Poppy Press (1-800-487-9296) is a publisher of really excellent TCM textbooks used in the schools, and also has very good publications for the lay public."
Based on your post on my other thread, I think it is possible that former lifestyle choices, such as overdoing it, can cause deficiencies/weakness in the body, which can manifest as all sorts of fluctuations and problems with mood, energy, and anxiety. I spent a year in an almost constant state of fear, with chronic fatigue and insomnia. No matter what or how much I ate, I could not seem to get energy or calm down. Workouts made me waste away. These problems are now gone with psyche meds and herbs. It's night and day.
Also, a raw food diet may not fit your constitution, regardless of beliefs. Raw foods will quickly weaken your digestion, disrupting the normal production of digestive enzymes from your pancreas, gall from your gall bladder (leading to lack of courage), etc. I wouldn't be surprised if it caused obsessive thoughts and worries, as I had those symptoms constantly when I was in that weak, anxiety-filled state.
The main concern is that it will tax your digestive fire (maybe an enzymatic, chemical "fire"), and eventually start to burn out your kidney (adrenal) energy over time. Fear, anxiety, lack of willpower, memory problems - these are symptoms of that condition, along with urinary and water-balance issues.
I think the key would be to find an herbalist who specializes in endocrine/thyroid type conditions, and would thus be up to date on herb-drug interactions. While some herbalists may not have the background, a lot do have Western medical training and also apprentice with experienced doctors/herbalists who may have had even more medical training and experience working side-by-side with Western medical doctors in a hospital (in China or elsewhere).
A complicated situation for sure, but focusing on the root, not the branches, will surely yield results over time. I'm sure you are well on your way on this path, and I hope you stay open to all the options out there.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 2, 2010, at 11:00:16
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on December 1, 2010, at 18:18:45
I thought I had read once that high copper destroys histamine, and when you lower the copper the histamine is raised. Theoretically, taking supplements of manganese, zinc, folic acid, and Niacin will help raise the histamine levels. Here is a good website that describes the Abnormal brain histamine types:
http://www.healthrecovery.com/HRC_2006/Depression_06/D_OpeningPage.htmYes, I think I have Morton's toe also. My second toe is bigger than my big toe. However, I do respond to regular B6, and I take about 25mg of P5P per day. I take 150mg of B6 per day. That seems to work the best for me. The zinc I take is Solgar's 22mg zinc picolinate. I take 2 tablets in the morning.
Hope this website can clear up any confusion. It is a very interesting article. It asks questions that might shed some light as to whether you are low or high histamine, and also the supplements that would be beneficial depending on your type.
Lao
Posted by jeaner on December 2, 2010, at 11:19:58
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by Lao Tzu on December 2, 2010, at 11:00:16
Pyridoxine is broken down in the body to p5p if your body can do that.You are taking 25 mg of the p5p so that may be why its helping you. I have looked at things at that site before. It's a good site . Thank you for pointing out that article.My last teat showed low histamine.I should get tested again. $ is tight now.
Posted by jeaner on December 2, 2010, at 11:24:29
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by Lao Tzu on December 2, 2010, at 11:00:16
Hi should have said my last TEST showed low histamine. How funny .Sorry for the misprint.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 2, 2010, at 11:26:19
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by jeaner on December 1, 2010, at 18:18:45
Yes, you are right. It does take a long time to figure out what helps and what doesn't. I've been doing the supplements for three years now, and only in the last year or so have I gotten it down, so to speak. It really takes a lot of experimentation, if you have the time. Fortunately, I haven't worked in 5 years, so I have time on my hands to dabble in taking supplements, mainly vitamins, minerals, and fatty acids. I don't do herbs because they only complicate my depression. Specifically, what diagnosis did your doctor give you besides Pyroluria? Are you Unipolar or Bipolar? Do you have any anxiety issues or phobias or OCD? I have social phobia associated with my bipolar/schizophrenia. I find that in my case, I really need the meds, but I have successfully combined them with the vitamins. The key is to determine proper dosages of each vitamin and mineral and also time of day to take them. Generally, I spread out the vitamins over the course of the day and also take a cocktail of vitamins at bedtime, which help me to sleep. I have read that some depressives can't handle folic acid because of its impact on histamine levels, whereas for other people, folic acid supplements do wonders for their depression. I tend to do better on B1, B6, and B12. If you are low histamine, the combination of Niacin and folic acid may help raise your levels, at least that's what I've read from many sources. Now, I am schizophrenic, and most schizophrenics have high histamine to begin with, and that is why antipsychotic drugs tend to cause histamine turnover. My problem has always been high histamine from the beginning. Still, I do well on zinc picolinate whereas zinc gluconate seemed to make me more depressed. I don't know why. Check out that website. Maybe it will give you an idea as to where you fit concerning histamine. I know it's not just about histamine and neurotransmitters, if your other organs are unhealthy or not functioning properly, you can have depression as well. I try not to simplify the causes of depression because usually, there is more than one factor involved.
Lao
Posted by jeaner on December 3, 2010, at 23:40:33
In reply to Re: supplement side effects, posted by Lao Tzu on December 2, 2010, at 11:26:19
My histamine was low also nor-epinephrine,dopamine[thats up now]serotonin,acetyl choline and gaba.I have pyroluia and ocd.I don't know what type of depression I get. I know I was not very depressed till I started b6 and zinc. I was taking them together. They formed a compound were depleted and I was a mess.I couldn't go in the sun or I broke out in hives. I forgot everything. The ocd was so much worse. I separated the b complex and zinc and got ok.A few other times doctors gave me supplements with b6 and zinc combined or told me it was ok to put them together and it started all over again.I'm so glad I went to see this doctor who knew not to combine b6 and zinc with pyroluria. I also can't take p5p. I had a bad week last week because I changed my brand of b complex . I usually take a whole food based one and this was synthetic. I don't know why but I can't take it. All I wanted to do is cry.I went to a doctor a while back who wanted me on some antidepressant it started with an L I don't remember the name. I said no and thew out the samples he pushed on me. I think it is the low b6 that causes it.I'm not that bad as long as I take my supplements when I need to.I do take alot of folic acid.I think each b complex has 400 mg and I take 4.I also take alot of magnesium. I was low in magnesium . That happens because b6 uses up magnesium and I need 200 mg b6.Magnesium is very important for pyroluria.
This is the end of the thread.
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