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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 140 to 164 of 222. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2009, at 23:22:45
In reply to Re: What I wonder is... » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2009, at 23:09:24
that made me cry.
Thank you, gg.
Posted by Deneb on February 27, 2009, at 23:39:22
In reply to For some reason » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2009, at 23:22:45
Hugs for you Dr. Bob.
Dinah, I hope you're OK, hugs.
Blocked posters, hope you're OK. Hugs
(((((((((((((Dr. Bob))))))))))))) I love you!
(((((Everyone))))))) feel better everyone
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 27, 2009, at 23:40:02
In reply to Blocked » HappyChaiTea, posted by Deputy Dinah on February 27, 2009, at 22:40:55
> I will ask Dr. Bob to set block length.
According to the formula:
duration of previous block: 4 weeks
period of time since previous block: 6 weeks
severity: 2 (default) + 2 (uncivil toward deputies) = 4
block length = 13.72 rounded = 14 weeksBob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 27, 2009, at 23:40:12
In reply to Re: glad to help, posted by Sigismund on February 27, 2009, at 17:12:43
> What could zazenducke say here that would not result in a block?
Something supportive or educational?
Bob
Posted by muffled on February 28, 2009, at 0:00:03
In reply to Re: would not result in a block, posted by Dr. Bob on February 27, 2009, at 23:40:12
> > What could zazenducke say here that would not result in a block?
>
> Something supportive or educational?
>
> Bob
>
>I think Zaz....
was just being Zaz, and went out rather beautfully in some ways.
People are entitled to their opinion, right or wrong.
LOL, but just not here on babble...
point was made.
Zaz knew what was up and was content.
Creative!!!
Brilliant on assorted levels when you start to reread it several times.
Shades of the the amazing Alex!
Bravo
MPS FWIW, I beleive the deps are doing their best, and I really respectfully do not agree w/the deliberately cruel statement. But that is my opinion.
I still respect others opinions :-)
Peace out brothers and sisters!
Best wishes to all.
Posted by rskontos on February 28, 2009, at 13:44:02
In reply to Hey, posted by Sigismund on February 27, 2009, at 22:34:19
First I am shocked to see the blocks of Twinleaf and Zazenducke especially the length. I am alarmed to say that I am confused about how it got to this point. I could say my opinions about why I think all this happened in this thread but I know I would a block or at the very least a PBC. So I will address my sad concerns over the usage of Administration board in the first place.
My statements are directed at Dr. Bob. Twinleaf started this thread called "New beginnings" with I think the intent to start a discussion. How then if we can't have a discussion on Administration regarding rules and how they are enforced and how they benefit or distress posters can this board be much of anything but banal threads on new name, etc. I thought Twinleaf started a worthwhile discussion and yet it seems to me that Dr. Bob doesn't really want a discussion. I don't think anyone would have found Twinleaf's post upsetting except maybe someone that might know or think they were the targeted one in her statement. In lieu of a block why couldn't you, Dr. Bob, discussed the real issue of civility and its' effect on people and the boards. It seems to me, you are avoiding the real discussion. Of course this is my opinion, and one I might regret voicing. I do not mean any disrespect to anyone. I feel that the deputies do the best job they can, when you take into consideration the ways you, Dr. Bob, tie their hands so to speak.
And why can we not openly address a issue that seems to spark so much real feelings. I always thought a healthy, I felt XXX when you said this can go a long ways toward those posters that want to have open dialogue. I see a real disintegration of real open dialogue especially here at Admin. Because it always seems to result in someone(s) getting blocked. Which always ends the discussion.
I thought administration was the board to have a healthy discussion on a real issue yet, Dr. Bob, you let the rules of the site guide you instead of just trying to discuss the issues. Do we need another site to discuss how to improve Babble. I know that you feel twinleaf and zaze spoke out of turn and violated rules you put in place, but how about speaking to each of them about how they feel. You addressed others directly why not them too.
There is a tricky tightwalk trick to try and start a discussion about rules that might or might now be viable yet Twinleaf tried to do this. I do think the reasons it escalated to point where you felt you had to block these posters was due to in part they asked a question of you and others answered. And those that answered could not really speak for you, so I feel it got in the way of the initial thread and it valid points. I also know why those that answered did so because they care about Babble. In fact, they seem to care more than you do.
So this is why I am shocked, alarmed and sad. Babble it seems is a hard place to discuss all that might be on our minds. It seems that no where on this site we might have good discussions that might actually yield new methods of how things should be done because too often it disintegrates into someone getting blocked to the detriment of the actual discussion--as it did in this case.
I am sorry Twinleaf, you got blocked and you too Zazenducke. It seems unfair in light of the actual discussion. And proves to me that Babble is not really someplace I can voice how I really feel. And while it might seem like here and now I am saying how I feel I am holding back trying to be as civil as possible yet say what I want to say. And sometimes, just sometimes, I think we need that "holding back of what I really want to say" suspended while we sort out regulations and whatnot.
I am sorry because Babble has helped me alot but in the recent past I find I feel it is better to not post even though I know I will receive good advice and help. It is not the posters or deputies I feel sad about it is the policies of Dr. Bob and his seemly unapproachability.
It seems Dr. Bob changes the rules about deputies and civility (the recent change of us policing ourselves) only to come back at his digression and enforce it when it stymies a potentially good discussion. So sad.
rsk
(((((((((Twinleaf)))))))))) ((((((((((Z-Ducke)))))))))))
Posted by zenhussy on February 28, 2009, at 15:08:06
In reply to Re: deputies get hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on February 26, 2009, at 15:39:12
>> I feel hurt when they're hurt. I know what they do, it's hard, and they're outstanding. <<
how about when a regular poster is hurting...do you feel hurt then as well? regular posters here are outstanding as well in what they contribute online as well as IRL. how fortunate to have so many outstanding ppl on this site!
>>They do take the whole picture into consideration. I disagree with them sometimes, and you may disagree with them sometimes. Reasonable people can disagree. I don't think the answer is to get rid of them, or the rules, or for others who'd feel uncomfortable in the role to volunteer.
> We do discuss whether more deputies (who'd feel comfortable in the role) would help.
> It may help if complaints about them are emailed to me directly and not posted or submitted using the notification system. And if blocks are longer for incivility toward them. So let's make those changes:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
> Thanks,
> Bob<<over the years this board's archives have recorded threads about your continued invitations to e-mail you directly--yet many find they wait weeks or months for a response and others have written they've never received a response to their numerous inquiries.
do you think that posters might feel hurt from the lack of response from you?
what do you think you could do to help support those posters who take the time to involve themselves in your site by writing to you w/ their concerns?
Posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2009, at 15:52:28
In reply to Re: deputies get hurt-regular posters get hurt too » Dr. Bob, posted by zenhussy on February 28, 2009, at 15:08:06
Posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2009, at 15:54:20
In reply to Re: Shocked and alarmed and sad, posted by rskontos on February 28, 2009, at 13:44:02
very caring and sensitive post. you are a "gem".....
Posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2009, at 16:11:54
In reply to Re: GHOSTS, posted by Dr. Bob on February 26, 2009, at 8:56:18
> > HELLO DR> BOB??????????????????????? ARE YOU LISTENING?????????
>
> I don't have much time right now, but I'm listening. I'm also wondering if I trigger some of you by being absent. Twinleaf mentioned emotionally unfair and abusive families of origin at the beginning of this thread.
>
> BobI am speaking for myself. I think that ignoring the posters could be triggering for some.
I am curious if you think it is better for Babble if you're here passing out 52 week blocks?
I would also like to know your take on the fact that several people question the length and math of your blocks?
I would like to know if you think that the board is in a good place right now?
I wonder if I
could get an answer to these questions or is the discussion over until May?
Posted by Sigismund on February 28, 2009, at 16:30:22
In reply to Re: GHOSTS » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2009, at 16:11:54
This 52 week block follows a number of rapidly escalating blocks for Zazenducke, which thus allows our yearly visit for a day only.
Posted by Sigismund on February 28, 2009, at 16:36:25
In reply to Re: deputies get hurt-regular posters get hurt too » Dr. Bob, posted by zenhussy on February 28, 2009, at 15:08:06
Yes
This is not the way I think people should be treated.
I really would like to talk to zazenducke, and now it will be another year, and then just for one day.
And, as is surely obvious, zazenducke put those personal opinions in a moderate and reasonable way.
Posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2009, at 16:38:14
In reply to Re: GHOSTS, posted by Sigismund on February 28, 2009, at 16:30:22
I only had four minutes!
Posted by Sigismund on February 28, 2009, at 16:41:07
In reply to Re: GHOSTS » Sigismund, posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2009, at 16:38:14
You've got to be quick, and I was away.
Posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2009, at 16:49:52
In reply to Re: deputies get hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on February 26, 2009, at 15:39:12
> > What the deputies can't do is take the whole picture into consideration.
> >
> > twinleaf
>
> > IF you are going to let people govern themselves, then get rid of the deputies and rules.
>
> > there is just too much for just few deputies to handle the board
> >
> > HappyChaiTea
>
> > the BIGGER problem for me is seeing ... the deputies get hurt. ... And yes, there is some guilt in there as well, because those kind posters who bravely and generously stepped up to do the job, and I didn't.
> >
> > muffled
>
> I feel hurt when they're hurt. I know what they do, it's hard, and they're outstanding. They do take the whole picture into consideration. I disagree with them sometimes, and you may disagree with them sometimes. Reasonable people can disagree. I don't think the answer is to get rid of them, or the rules, or for others who'd feel uncomfortable in the role to volunteer.I am curious about how you came to the conclusion that "others" would feel uncomfortable in the role of volunteering for the job of deputy?
I think that this might cause "others" to feel hurt or put down.
You did jump to a conclusion, did you not?
>
> We do discuss whether more deputies (who'd feel comfortable in the role) would help.
>
> It may help if complaints about them are emailed to me directly and not posted or submitted using the notification system. And if blocks are longer for incivility toward them. So let's make those changes:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by muffled on February 28, 2009, at 19:55:11
In reply to Re: deputies get hurt » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2009, at 16:49:52
He was referring to me I think Pat.
No worries.
M
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 1, 2009, at 11:13:00
In reply to Re: deputies get hurt-regular posters get hurt too » zenhussy, posted by Sigismund on February 28, 2009, at 16:36:25
> Twinleaf started this thread called "New beginnings" with I think the intent to start a discussion. How then if we can't have a discussion on Administration regarding rules and how they are enforced and how they benefit or distress posters can this board be much of anything ... I thought Twinleaf started a worthwhile discussion and yet it seems to me that Dr. Bob doesn't really want a discussion. I don't think anyone would have found Twinleaf's post upsetting except maybe someone that might know or think they were the targeted one in her statement.
>
> And why can we not openly address a issue that seems to spark so much real feelings. I always thought a healthy, I felt XXX when you said this can go a long ways toward those posters that want to have open dialogue.
>
> So this is why I am shocked, alarmed and sad. Babble it seems is a hard place to discuss all that might be on our minds. It seems that no where on this site we might have good discussions that might actually yield new methods of how things should be done because too often it disintegrates into someone getting blocked to the detriment of the actual discussion--as it did in this case.
>
> Babble is not really someplace I can voice how I really feel. And while it might seem like here and now I am saying how I feel I am holding back trying to be as civil as possible yet say what I want to say. And sometimes, just sometimes, I think we need that "holding back of what I really want to say" suspended while we sort out regulations and whatnot.
>
> I am sorry because Babble has helped me alot but in the recent past I find I feel it is better to not post even though I know I will receive good advice and help. It is not the posters or deputies I feel sad about it is the policies of Dr. Bob and his seemly unapproachability.
>
> rskI welcome healthy discussion here. I agree, I-statements can go a long ways. It's hard to have a good discussion if people feel targeted. Thank you for working to express yourself in a civil way. A balance between being open and holding back helps keep discussions productive. It may be tempting to suspend rules, but that can have its own complications.
This discussion has already yielded a couple new ways of doing things. Still, I feel sad that my policies and unavailability may lead some of you to miss out on good advice and help from each other.
--
> over the years this board's archives have recorded threads about your continued invitations to e-mail you directly--yet many find they wait weeks or months for a response and others have written they've never received a response to their numerous inquiries.
>
> do you think that posters might feel hurt from the lack of response from you?
>
> what do you think you could do to help support those posters who take the time to involve themselves in your site by writing to you w/ their concerns?
>
> zenhussy> I am speaking for myself. I think that ignoring the posters could be triggering for some.
>
> I am curious if you think it is better for Babble if you're here passing out 52 week blocks?
>
> I would also like to know your take on the fact that several people question the length and math of your blocks?
>
> I would like to know if you think that the board is in a good place right now?
>
> fayeroeSure, I think posters may feel hurt when I don't respond. The deputies are responsive, but they may not be able to address some concerns fully. And of course they're not me.
What do you think posters could do to help support each other when I'm unavailable?
I think it's better for Babble to be civil. Reasonable people can disagree about how long blocks should be, or even whether there should be blocks at all. I think the board is probably a good place for some, a bad place for some, and an in-between place for some.
--
> I really would like to talk to zazenducke
>
> SigismundIt takes two to tango...
Hmm, and maybe in addition to hurt and anger, my unavailability also triggers longing?
Bob
Posted by fayeroe on March 1, 2009, at 11:16:51
In reply to Re: unavailability, posted by Dr. Bob on March 1, 2009, at 11:13:00
Posted by fayeroe on March 1, 2009, at 11:20:23
In reply to Re: unavailability, posted by Dr. Bob on March 1, 2009, at 11:13:00
Bob said "This discussion has already yielded a couple new ways of doing things. Still, I feel sad that my policies and unavailability may lead some of you to miss out on good advice and help from each other."
I would like a clarification on the above statement.
I need to know what the "new things" are.
Posted by zenhussy on March 1, 2009, at 11:37:56
In reply to Re: unavailability, posted by Dr. Bob on March 1, 2009, at 11:13:00
> what do you think you could do to help support those posters who take the time to involve themselves in your site by writing to you w/ their concerns?--z<
>>>What do you think posters could do to help support each other when I'm unavailable?
Bob<<<the original question was "what could YOU do" as many of us here are already aware of what posters can do to support one another.
trying again...what do you think you could do during your increasing times of unavailability to assist or support posters who have provided the content for this site and various research (yours and others) over the years?
do you think that when posters who have been major contributors are blocked for extended periods of time that it can create a longing in you for the Je ne sais pas they add to your site?
Posted by rskontos on March 1, 2009, at 12:52:28
In reply to Re: unavailability, posted by Dr. Bob on March 1, 2009, at 11:13:00
>I welcome healthy discussion here. I agree, I-statements can go a long ways. It's hard to have a good discussion if people feel targeted. Thank you for working to express yourself in a civil way. A balance between being open and holding back helps keep discussions productive. It may be tempting to suspend rules, but that can have its own complications.
You're welcome. But, of course there is a but, I feel that this discussion did not yield a great deal to us, perhaps to you it did. In looking at the archives, it is clear this discussion regarding blocks/math/civility rules has been ongoing for years. So in the best interest of a subject coming up over and over again, how about addressing it. In doing so, realize that somethings you perceive to be offensive to us, may not actual be to us. Your perception of offensive and ours may differ a great deal. We are not you and you are not us.
Dr. Bob, no you don't trigger me when you are gone, what triggers me is posters I value are suddenly gone in a discuss that you deem inappropriate.
You know the old saying, in trying to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. Well, in trying to keep civility rules across the board it is bound to happen that no one is really served. That is now how I feel the civility rules have evolved. They should be protection not an absolute. You said for us to police ourselves and yet you still sweep in and block people often to the detriment of the actual discussion.
>Still, I feel sad that my policies and unavailability may lead some of you to miss out on good advice and help from each other.>
Then help us address this issue once and for all. Some of us will continue to use Babble because it means so much, that is outside of you Dr. Bob.
I think we all do a good job of supporting each other. Perhaps in this case, to just watch and see if someone reported that this poster had indeed made them feel bad or insulted might be one suggestion. You made the rule for us to support and police ourselves yet I don't see how we are allowed to do just that.
So in MHO,
Another new beginning was derailed.
rsk
Posted by BayLeaf on March 1, 2009, at 14:02:54
In reply to Re: unavailability, posted by Dr. Bob on March 1, 2009, at 11:13:00
>I don't have much time right now, but I'm listening. I'm also wondering if I trigger some of you by being absent. Twinleaf mentioned emotionally unfair and abusive families of origin at the beginning of this thread.
>Bob
>Hmm, and maybe in addition to hurt and anger, my unavailability also triggers longing?
>Bob
My "Bob Pet Peeve List" is topped by pointing out that all the anger at him is really transference. None of it as actually justified by his behavior. It's just a marvelous way to deflect responsibility. It's an "anti-I-statement".Of course, there is some transference going on here - I won't point it out, cuz that would be uncivil, and too obvious for folks who have been around a long time....but seriously Bob. Most of the anger directed at you, imo, is not augmented by any form of daddy-ness at Babble. It is actually balanced by your actions.
Bay
Posted by Sigismund on March 1, 2009, at 14:05:15
In reply to Re: unavailability, Dr. Bob, posted by rskontos on March 1, 2009, at 12:52:28
This is the first time in a while that the blocking formula was used.
Posted by fayeroe on March 1, 2009, at 14:21:31
In reply to Re: unavailability » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on March 1, 2009, at 11:20:23
> Bob said "This discussion has already yielded a couple new ways of doing things. Still, I feel sad that my policies and unavailability may lead some of you to miss out on good advice and help from each other."
>
> I would like a clarification on the above statement.
>
> I need to know what the "new things" are.
I've been thinking, Bob, and I wonder if you might feel inadequate when it comes to providing more than a safe long distance relationship with us? (I've watched for years and really can't recall an effort upon your part to reach out to us.)I think that it would be a terrific relief to some of the posters if our "discussion" was a two- way street. I don't believe that it is now.
I think that there is fair amount of self-disclosure from the posters when it comes to trying to talk to you about the administration of Babble.
It takes two to tango.
Posted by Sigismund on March 1, 2009, at 14:24:49
In reply to Re: unavailability » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on March 1, 2009, at 14:02:54
The manner in which the blocks are built up via the formula is transparent, as is the intention.
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