![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by tabitha on February 11, 2004, at 21:39:54
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Karen_kay, posted by Phil on February 11, 2004, at 20:33:34
I'm usually suspicious of those Mars Venus ideas, but one popped into my mind here. I read in a Deborah Tannen book that men tend to react more negatively than women to being told what to do, since they place a high value on independence and autonomy. Perhaps as Dr Bob has started stepping in more and getting stricter about civility, more men than women have gotten uncomfortable participating here.
Posted by noa on February 11, 2004, at 22:26:45
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Karen_kay, posted by Phil on February 11, 2004, at 20:33:34
the ratios seem to hover around 2:1 female to male. Do we know if this is any different than other boards of this kind, dealing with psychological issues? Or, for that matter, any different than patterns for joining support groups or seaking therapy? It also seems to me that the med board has more male posters than other boards here, but that is just an impression.
Posted by Dinah on February 12, 2004, at 1:23:27
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters?, posted by Phil on February 11, 2004, at 17:38:21
Phil, I know you aren't here asking for support, but I really do just want to quickly say that I can see you're in a lot of pain, and I'm really sorry for it. I wish that life were fairer, or more gentle, to you. I wish there was something I could do. Ok, I'll stop now, and you can just skip this part of the post and go down to a few random remarks from my perhaps overstimulated brain if you prefer.
I'm sorry I misunderstood what you were saying, but I hope you don't mind if I still think what you *weren't* trying to say might still deserve some thought. To my knowledge, some of the men I mentioned never ran up against Dr. Bob, and yet they did leave. And it might be worth investigating whether there's something about the sheer mass of women that is a bit intimidating.
I don't know that Dr. Bob comes down harder on men, he certainly has come down hard on some women as well. Perhaps what Tabitha said has some merit.
Or perhaps Dr. Bob speaks and understands the language of men better than women, and so sometimes things slip by because he doesn't really understand what is being said. Of course, it's also possible that I sometimes read things into women's posts that weren't intended. I know that's happened with my posts to others, and it's more than possible that the converse is true. Perhaps there is something about women's way of talking that can both hide incivility that is present, and suggest incivility that really isn't? Gender stereotypes again. But I know my manner of speech is circuitous at times, and as I'm myself I can't really pin down rather it's a regional thing, or a female thing, or a personal thing. But on the other hand, so can Dr. Bob's way of speaking so perhaps it's just a human communication problem. Sorry. Rambled a bit in my musings.
One thing I *do* believe very strongly is that it is the people who care most passionately about Bob and about Babble who are, ironically, most likely to leave because of Bob. Only things that you care about can bring great joy and great pain, and great anger too. Those people who quit posting, voluntarily or not, a good long time ago, and yet keep abreast of what's going on here and feel passionately about it pretty much *have* to care a lot. Otherwise they would have simply moved on long ago.
I also agree about the standard issue, boundary drawing, statements (like the goodbyes). They really sting when there is caring on our side. I told my therapist that the trouble with boundary drawing is that while you're doing it you aren't watching the other person and seeing the pain they're in. I can certainly understand what you said about it being nice if you heard your own name.
Are there really people saving the entire board to Word? The Admin board or all the boards? All the posts or just the controversial ones? I would be less than honest if I didn't say that I find that I'm feeling a bit funny about that, and the idea of other people looking out for (communal) me without my knowledge. It makes no sense for me to feel that way, I know, as this is an archived public board... I'm going to have to get used to that idea...
I do hope that things go better for you at work than you imagine they will. From what you've said over the years, I know that work has been a major stressor for you for a long time. :(
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 12, 2004, at 4:23:26
In reply to As a male..I hear ya..other comments... » Phil, posted by jay on February 11, 2004, at 21:19:09
> Whether you believe this or not, I feel tremendous gratitude and love for you, no matter your shortcomings. Whether I'm wrong or right isn't important to me but it is important to me to say that I do care. If I didn't love this place, I wouldn't have stayed.
Thanks, Phil :-) I appreciate that. You've contributed a lot over a long time, and I'm glad you're back. And plenty of others are, too.
> I know more than a few people here, men and women, feel they have been hurt badly by DR Bob's actions.
I realize people have been hurt by actions I've taken, and I'm sorry about that, but that wasn't my intent. I'd like to try to work something out, and I appreciate it when you and others are willing to give it another try, thanks.
> Zenhussy was banned for 6 months and I got banned for two weeks because I knew she wanted help. Did she and I post uncivilly, yes. My depression is 95% anger and I must be careful. But if I feel a good friend has been hurt by being banned, and I know it hurt me the times I've been banned, then I'm not being true to myself to forgive and forget.
I think it's great for people to support each other. That is, after all, the idea here. Even if it puts us in opposition at times.
> I was deeply disappointed, DrBob, when you were going to use sar's story in a report or speech , I'm not sure of the context but I think you were wondering aloud if you should contact her parents, or someone brought that up to you. You said something to the effect of. well, she signed off here so I don't think I will... I think her parents and sister would have had a great chance to grieve if you humbly called and introduced yourself and said, I am truly sorry for the loss of your daughter.
I am in fact truly sorry, but I have no idea what their needs are or how they would respond to being called.
> > I know I personally wouldn't confess to being treated unfairly if I wanted to stay... Just a thought...
>
> Did you hear what you just said? To stay on this board you would pretend to be okay when you actually believed otherwise. I'm trying to cut through a boatload of denial by people here that watch great people leave and say, Well, Dr Bob's the boss. Better keep my mouth shut or he'll get me next. People have been hurt here and to turn away and ignore it is the problem.
>
> PhilMaybe on Mars it's more important to speak out, even if that means conflict? Whereas on Venus it may be more important to get along, even if that means keeping something to oneself?
Confrontation isn't the only way to show support or to address problems. And keeping something to oneself is different than believing otherwise.
Civility has to do with getting along, so it may be more Venus than Mars...
----
> I feel you are right...that a lot of guys don't speak up for fear of being "canned".
Well, I'm all for thinking twice before posting...
> The Stats board doesn't lie...just look at the shear numbers of people who come and go. For Even to anyone who has hung around in a year, this feels more like a busy airport than a even a "loose knit" community.
>
> JayI agree, wouldn't it be nice if there were some boards that felt more like small towns than busy airports? :-)
Bob
Posted by Karen_kay on February 12, 2004, at 6:19:00
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Karen_kay, posted by Phil on February 11, 2004, at 20:33:34
Why did you take my post to be a criticism of sorts? I assure you I wasn't arguing. No need for you to give up. :) I think you raise an interesting point. No hard feelings though, I was just saying with ONLY numbers, it is hard to prove that is why we have less men, or more men leaving. That was the only point I was trying to make. Also, I would be hesitant to say I feel cheated if I were still involved in the community. I certainly didn't mean to be offensive (??) was I?? And don't give up! But, that's just my opinion on the matter. You can take it for what it's worth, hun.
Posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 8:13:48
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Phil, posted by Karen_kay on February 12, 2004, at 6:19:00
I find it demeaning to be addressed as hun.
Does it mean I should address posts to women I don't know as hey babe, take it however you want?
I'm in no shape to make major decisions like leaving this board but should I decide to stay, I'm asking you to not post to me anymore.Thanks,
Phil
Posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 9:13:06
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Karen_kay, posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 8:13:48
I guess I could lose my job, everything I own, be strickened with bad health, be dumber'n a rock but I will be fine as long as I don't play the victim and blame the world.
I can't let anger rule me because it's something that I have control over.Please accept my apology and if you still want, post to me any time.
I forgot I'm from Texas. If someone calls you hun here, you're talking to good people.
Gotta go, I have 752 more apologies to make. Going to be a busy day.
Peace
Phil....next please...#47?!!!
Posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 9:40:22
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Phil, posted by shar on February 11, 2004, at 15:49:25
shar, You and the old man want to get some coffee today or tomorrow? I don't think I'm spun up enough.
I put my cat on a diet so I have some extra money.
email me or call me if you wanthorizontalbliss over there at yayhoo.
Posted by shar on February 12, 2004, at 13:52:27
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » shar, posted by Dinah on February 11, 2004, at 16:34:23
Of course, I assume you understand that my post had nothing to do with the chromosomal makeup of anybody, nor sex roles, nor gender differences, nor stereotypes, BUT with the issue of having exclusive boards.
My shock was that you supported exclusive (not just specialty) boards at all, for any reason, given your opposition to the boards discussed in the thread above about having boards that only certain people could join.
Probably my reaction would not have been such surprise had your disapproval of other private boards not been so vehement.
But, I suppose it's really neither here nor there.
Shar
> Well, I must confess that I don't consider the possession of male genitalia an elitist issue. :)
>
> I've never been a big believer in the Mars and Venus idea. I don't really like any stereotypes. If you applied gender stereotypes to my marriage, I'd be the man and my husband would be the woman. I never remember anniversaries or Valentines day, and could care less about cards or presents. I'm more likely to snort than swoon at romance.
>
> But I thought Phil brought up some legitimate points. Many men do communicate differently than many women. I may not understand gender differences very much, but I have heard enough about them to at least concede that there might be validity to the concept. To me it's no different from the suggestions for any specialty board. Technically, I suppose there doesn't need to be any restriction on registration. The purpose of the board would be men's issues (whatever on earth those are - my therapist won't tell me). That would be no different than the health or writing board.
>
> To be scrupulously fair there maybe should be a woman's issues board too. It might be nice to have a girl's only environment to discuss female genitalia and its quirks. And whatever women's issues might be. I've never been clear on that. Of course, like Jane said, the problem is that there is a seductive feeling that it's "just us girls" when in reality it's the entire world of people with internet access.
>
>
Posted by Karen_kay on February 12, 2004, at 14:45:09
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Karen_kay, posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 8:13:48
I honestly think that somewhere there's been a miscommunication of sorts, and I suspect it's on my end, as I seem to be having a mood switch. So, I'll try to make this short and sweet, as I honestly don't want to cause anymore trouble than I seem to have in the first place. My last post was a sincere apology. And my phrase, "Take it however you want" or whatever I said, as I'm lazy and don't feel like looking back (that doesn't mean I'm trying to talk my way out of anything, or that I'm trying in some way to disregard your feeling, I promise!) meant that I don't even hold my own opinion in high regard, and I suspect others hold in even lower.... So, I meant you are welcome to throw my opinion out the window if you like, it won't hrut my feelings at all, in fact, I'm very likely to then agree it's the right thing to do....
Now, to the important stuff..... I AM SOOOO very sorry if I've come across as offensive, critical, sarcastic, cynical, well, go ahead and insert any adjective you like... My last post was not intended to do this. So, I'll be certain in the future not to call you hun, but I do have to say you are the first to have complained. I really didn't mean it in a demeaning way. I just call everyone hun. Perhaps I should be more careful? I meant it as a term of endearment, not a sarcastic shot. If I was going to take a shot, it would have been far worse than that. But, I can see no reason to take a shot at you or anyone else here on this board. I personally think you're all great people.
Posted by gabbix2 on February 12, 2004, at 14:57:01
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Phil, posted by Karen_kay on February 12, 2004, at 14:45:09
I think Phil was giving you a sincere compliment. That was my understanding. He said
"If someone calls you hon, then you're talking to good people"
Posted by justyourlaugh on February 12, 2004, at 16:28:21
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Phil, posted by Karen_kay on February 12, 2004, at 14:45:09
i call most people i deal with "sweet, darling" or even "child"
that is because i cant remember the names of my kids...
it would please me to be called "hun", just as long as you call:)
s
Posted by Dinah on February 12, 2004, at 17:18:16
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Dinah, posted by shar on February 12, 2004, at 13:52:27
I don't know that I'm capable of much sense today. Certainly my entire therapy session consisted of me frustrating my therapist and vice versa with endless conversations that sounded a lot like Admin threads.
But what I was trying to say was that I don't see a Men's board as more exclusive than, say, the Writing board. I never post there because I don't write. And I wouldn't post on the Men's board (if by chance there ever is one) because I've never been a man. It doesn't need to be formally limited by registration or anything. I don't think many women would feel a strong need to post on men's issues.
The rest of the post was my saying that I thought Phil had a point, even if I now know he didn't intend that point.
And if I'm still not being clear, I apologize and beg pardon. It seems to be that kind of week for me.
Posted by shar on February 12, 2004, at 20:45:23
In reply to What percentage of male vs. female posters?, posted by Phil on February 10, 2004, at 23:49:31
Phil,
You've brought up an important issue that's stimulated a lot of discussion, and made some points worth further investigation about male and female participation. I appreciate the fact that the people of PB want to pursue these discussions, and it enhances the community to do so. So, thank you for that!And, if I've been unclear (which I probably have been) I want to clarify the fondness I have for "The Men of PB" and how impressed I've been with the manner in which they interact with the women here. You and your peers seem to be genuinely concerned about all posters, whether male or female. I join you in missing those who've left, and I want them to return (hoping against hope).
You have been an important part of this community, giving support freely, and--just as importantly--asking the hard questions when they need to be asked. So, for the things you do, and the fact that you are still actively participating, I want you to know how much you are appreciated by me and many others.
It will be interesting to see where the male/female question leads. And, if during my mush-brained posts I appeared to be anything but supportive of you...mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. (There are so many posts in the thread that I get a bit cross-wired sometimes about who I've said what to, tho I do try to keep up...)
Shar who looooves coffee.....
Posted by mair on February 13, 2004, at 10:39:49
In reply to What percentage-----Phil, posted by shar on February 12, 2004, at 20:45:23
Posted by Phil on February 13, 2004, at 12:39:18
In reply to I wholeheartedly agree with Shar's last post (nm), posted by mair on February 13, 2004, at 10:39:49
Through these last few days, I honestly don't know what the heck I'm saying. I post then want to throw this computer out the window. I'm afraid to even read the reactions because I'm not quite sure what I'm doing.
I don't want to sound like this board hasn't helped me, there's no doubt it has.
Sometime or another, Dr Bob hasn't pleased everyone with his communications to us but if it weren't for Dr Bob, I would never had a venue to meet so many people who are so loving and caring despite their own troubles.
Let me just say I'm grateful and leave it at that. I'm burning bandwidth and I know I'm going to get too mushy, which pretty much describes my brain right now.
mair, you are one bright and very special person.
I'd give you a huge hug but last time I hugged shar, I caught her hair on fire with my cigarette. Man, that girl can run!! She has a great left hook, too. shar, my mouth isn't wired shut anymore; I had no idea a petite thing like you could pack that kind of wallop.
Posted by socialdeviantjeff on February 13, 2004, at 18:27:21
In reply to What percentage of male vs. female posters?, posted by Phil on February 10, 2004, at 23:49:31
This is an interesting thread. I just thought I would put my 2 cents in here, FWIW.
This is just my opinion and is in no way a statement on the other guys in Babble or the world in general and is largely based on my own experience.
Because of the social stigma of mental ilness, men are far less likely to to seek help. Either you're a stable provider or you have no business living. Due to that, many men will suffer in silence or not seek help until the situation becomes a crisis. The old stereotype of being lost and refusing to ask for directions is a good example. My own situation is the classic waiting for a crisis.
I think this reflects in Pbabble. A lot of guys come and go. It's just the nature of the beast.
One of the things that keeps me here is the fact I'm anonymous. The only hard fact anyone here know abou me besides my "issues" is that my first name is Jeff. Or Social or whatever. While it is regrettable that I would never invite a fellow babbler to coffee down the street, the anonimity provides a "shield" that lets me be a lot more open than I would be in the real world.
Now, about a boy's only club? I think the concept is a nice one, but I have reservations. I also feel the same way about small town boards:
For one thing-to track a lot of posts over different boards can be quite confusing! Could also lead to cross-posting to elicit the most replies.
Then there is the exlusionary "elitist" factor.
On the other side of the coin, men and women do have unique physical and mental needs. That said, don't we all as individuals? If there was a males only board, would that lead to a board for every DSM diagnosis? Also, suppose a woman had the best reply to a male problem or vice-versa. Would that mean the person getting PCB'd (or otherwise corrected) for posting on the wrong Gender board?
I certainly don't mean to offend. If I did, I apoligize. After all, it wouldn't be the fist time I was a little off base.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 13, 2004, at 22:52:40
In reply to Re: shar, mair, Dr Bob, Mr President, fellow babs, posted by Phil on February 13, 2004, at 12:39:18
> Sometime or another, Dr Bob hasn't pleased everyone with his communications to us but if it weren't for Dr Bob, I would never had a venue to meet so many people who are so loving and caring despite their own troubles.
> Let me just say I'm grateful and leave it at that.If it weren't for all of you, this site wouldn't be anything. Thank you all for trusting me, and each other, enough to share so much.
Bob
Posted by shar on February 14, 2004, at 1:24:10
In reply to Re: shar, mair, Dr Bob, Mr President, fellow babs, posted by Phil on February 13, 2004, at 12:39:18
> I'd give you a huge hug but last time I hugged shar, I caught her hair on fire with my cigarette. Man, that girl can run!! She has a great left hook, too. shar, my mouth isn't wired shut anymore; I had no idea a petite thing like you could pack that kind of wallop.
Phil,
Anyone that has seen me and STILL refers to me as 'petite' is double plus extra mega special good in my book!! lol!And that patch of hair grew back ok, too. No harm done.
Shar
Posted by Jai Narayan on February 14, 2004, at 18:39:05
In reply to Re: shar, mair, Dr Bob, Mr President, fellow babs, posted by Phil on February 13, 2004, at 12:39:18
> I don't want to sound like this board hasn't helped me, there's no doubt it has.
I would never had a venue to meet so many people who are so loving and caring despite their own troubles.
> Let me just say I'm grateful and leave it at that. I'm burning bandwidth and I know I'm going to get too mushy, which pretty much describes my brain right now.*I know what you mean I just got real mushy on my post to Dr. Bob. It's so hard not to, he's so special and so are you all.
> I'd give you a huge hug but last time I hugged shar, I caught her hair on fire with my cigarette. Man, that girl can run!! She has a great left hook, too. shar, my mouth isn't wired shut anymore; I had no idea a petite thing like you could pack that kind of wallop.
*This is too funny, I laughed right out loud. Too funny....thank you, our Texas man!
Most of my family are living in Texas. Go figure?
Where in Texas are you?
Posted by Phil on February 15, 2004, at 2:13:49
In reply to Re: shar, mair, Dr Bob, Mr President, fellow babs, posted by Jai Narayan on February 14, 2004, at 18:39:05
AWWWWWWSTUN, so is shar and a lot of other uh, posters here.
Posted by Jai Narayan on February 16, 2004, at 19:35:40
In reply to Re: shar, mair, Dr Bob, Mr President, fellow babs » Jai Narayan, posted by Phil on February 15, 2004, at 2:13:49
> AWWWWWWSTUN, so is shar and a lot of other uh, posters here.
*My family is from Houston....I tried to live there for a winter. I saw one too many accidents on the endless highways...all the cars, all the burning cars.
Plus one day the police made a announcement on the evening news. " You drivers need to be careful if you get into an accident because the other driver may be armed." It seems that a man who had dented another man's front fender had no car insurance. In a fit of anger the dente shot the denter to death.
Posted by Phil on February 16, 2004, at 19:45:07
In reply to Re: shar, mair, Dr Bob, Mr President, fellow babs, posted by Jai Narayan on February 16, 2004, at 19:35:40
Houston's a nut house, especially since Bush made it the most polluted city in the nation.
I've lived there 3 times a long time ago. I remember a DJ saying that if you drive 70mph on the freeways put a ramp on your car so others can jump you.
With regards to Houstonites, my niece is one, you can have it. It's turned into a crime ridden sewer.
Austin's trouble is Houston and Dallas people moving here so it's screwing us up now.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 17, 2004, at 10:44:21
In reply to Re: shar, mair, Dr Bob, Mr President, fellow babs » Jai Narayan, posted by Phil on February 16, 2004, at 19:45:07
Posted by EscherDementian on February 20, 2004, at 8:20:04
In reply to Re: What percentage of male vs. female posters? » Dr. Bob, posted by Phil on February 11, 2004, at 10:35:20
>@>P.S. You once called me "dude": SHhhhhh... i'm not.
>#>Sorry about the gender concept....might have just been calling you dude gnerically. You never know.
>@>Please 'no worries' the gender concept , i smiled when i first read it and was actually glad - because i try to keep my online gender neutral.
>#>I do try to visualize the folks I grow closer to.....I dare say you were successful at maintaining your ungendered existence.
>@>It avoids a kind of static that way, i've come to learn. & Re: the generic "dude": i tip my hat to you once again, Lar.>#>A little skating, is all that was..... I don't recall if I thought of you as male or not, at the time. You do have a masculine style of writing, at times.
>@>*chuckle* Hmm, think i'll try an experiment and reveal a little personal gender info once in a while...
This is the end of the thread.
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