![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 28 to 52 of 98. Go back in thread:
Posted by TexasChic on April 22, 2006, at 13:03:21
In reply to Re: What a crappy day. » TexasChic, posted by milly on April 22, 2006, at 10:18:05
Wow! That website is GREAT! I just kept seeing myself described over and over. And it confirmed alot of the things I've been thinking about but was unsure of. Like the reason I seem to end up the target of bullies. Here's an exert:
The six most common reasons bullies select their targets are because of availability (wrong place, wrong time), competence (envy), popularity (jealousy), vulnerability (income and the need to pay the mortgage), emotional maturity and values, and integrity. Targets represent everything that bullies are not, and never will be.
Targets of bullying are independent, self-reliant, self-motivated, have no need to form gangs or join cliques, have no need to impress, and have no interest in office politics.Its exactly what I've been thinking all along. I get targeted because I don't want to be part of the clique and I just don't think gossiping and putting down other people is a healthy way to live. I KNOW this bully has been/is jealous of me because for a while there I seemed to be pretty popular. I could tell she couldn't stand that. I'm still pretty well liked by some of the guys, which I've also observed her displaying jealousy over. And I've always thought that when I don't go along with her talking bad about other people (or worse, take up for them), she sees it as me thinking I'm better than her.
The most intriguing part of what I read is how they explain what I went through growing up as actually bullying (my parents, esp my dad). I never thought of it in those terms because it was my parents. But I see now that's exactly what it was.
They have a section on PTSS, which verifies my suspicions that I may be suffering from that because of my childhood. I know one sign they mentioned that really stood out to me was 'being easily startled'. Everyone at work knows I startle easily and alot of them seem to go to great lengths to avoid doing so. The little old ladies I work with will say, "Oh, I was trying so hard not to startle you" after I jump when they walk up behind me and start to speak. I'm always telling them, "No its just me, I always do that for some reason".
It never occured to me that I could be suffering from PTSS because of my childhood until someone else mentioned it here on babble. Now it just seems so obvious.
I'm going to read some more and see what advise they have on how to handle things. Thanks so much everyone for your insight and encouragement. It would have been much, much more difficult for me to get through this without it.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on April 22, 2006, at 13:14:37
In reply to Re: hope you're doing better today? » TexasChic, posted by alesta on April 22, 2006, at 12:47:04
Aw-w-w, that's so sweet! Thanks alesta! It means alot to me to know that people care.
I'm feeling much better today. I tend to get really overwhelmed and distraught by upsetting situations at first, and then I calm down after some time has passed. Of course it feels like I'll never calm down while I'm in the middle of it. But I'm starting to see a pattern and I'm trying to use that knowledge to my advantage (like not making any rash decisions or outbursts when I'm in that state).
Thanks so much for you kind words. I really love my friends here.
-T
Posted by alesta on April 22, 2006, at 14:00:16
In reply to Re: hope you're doing better today? » alesta, posted by TexasChic on April 22, 2006, at 13:14:37
Posted by tizza on April 22, 2006, at 17:53:33
In reply to Re: hope you're doing better today? » alesta, posted by TexasChic on April 22, 2006, at 13:14:37
You are doing better, you sound great. Paul
Posted by TexasChic on April 24, 2006, at 21:36:23
In reply to Re: hope you're doing better today?, posted by tizza on April 22, 2006, at 17:53:33
Things went fine today, pretty non-eventful. I wasn't upset anymore about feeling that everyone deserted me. Everything I read this weekend said that when being bullied in the workplace your co-workers will most likely not stand by you. Its either because they want to stay out of it, they don't want to be targeted themselves, or they just don't realize the extent of what's going on. It made me feel better to know it was kind of normal.
Although I was upset about feeling deserted, I've realized that what really upset me Friday was more about Cuteboy than anything else. I'm just one lovesick idiot!
We're going on layoff in 5 weeks and all I can think is how much it will suck to not see him for 3 months. I wish I could just find out once and for all that he has no interest in me so I can move on. As long as I have this tiny bit of hope I just can't let it go.
Allow me to gush for a minute - he's growing a goatee and the contrast between it and his boyish looks is so freaking cute I can't stand it! When he first started growing it I told him how much I like goatees and that it would look really good on him. He was all embarrassed saying, "Well at least it will take attention away from my face". I was like, "You have a cute face! I bet all the girls are after you!" He just got all embarrassed. I suddenly realized that I've been unconsiously giving the impression that I just think of him as a cute kid. I guess its just self preservation. I mean, you've got to do something when you get drunk and tell the guy you love him!
Anyway, forgive me for gushing. I didn't have anywhere else to do it and I needed to get it out of my system.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on April 26, 2006, at 19:33:44
In reply to Today, posted by TexasChic on April 24, 2006, at 21:36:23
Today I worked up the courage to ask cuteboy if he had been meeting up with coldshouldergirl and friends outside of work. He said no, not at all. I told him they were kind of making it sound like they did. He said, "Oh, to make it sound like you were left out?" I said "Yeah", kind of surprised he figured that out since he seems to be oblivious to the situation most of the time. Then I added "I care alot more about your opinion than their's", which I wasn't really what I meant to say. What I wanted to say was that I could care less about them leaving me out, but it bothered me to think of him hanging out with them. But I realized at the last second that didn't sound so great, so I ended up with the slightly random comment. If nothing else, it was a step toward letting him know how I feel about him.
Anyway, that might not sound very dramatic or anything, but it was a major hurtle for me to ask him something like that (I thought about it all last night). Especially when I really thought the answer would be yes, and then I'd have to explain why I asked and why it bothered me and blah, blah, blah. So I felt pretty proud of myself overall.
To continue with my goal of moving forward, I sent my resume to this place I would really love to work. I had applied before and went through two interviews, but they chose someone else. So when I saw the ad on monster.com I decided to go for it because I might have a good chance. I also picked up some (inexpensive) interviewing clothes after work today just so I'd be prepared. I really need a suit, but I ended up with just some dressy slacks and shirt. They are more like second interview clothes, but its better than anything else I have, which is jeans.
So I'm trying to push myself out of my comfort zone a little at a time. I want to have a social life, friends, dates, activities that include leaving the house, a job with a future! And I know that will never happen unless I make it happen.
-T
Posted by milly on April 27, 2006, at 9:44:01
In reply to Re: Today, posted by TexasChic on April 26, 2006, at 19:33:44
Wow TC
I really hope you are proud of yourself because you should be, that was a GOOD day!
when will you hear if you've got an interview? I bet you look stunning in your new outfit you deserve it.
Gently does it but GO GIRL!
milly
Posted by TexasChic on April 28, 2006, at 19:23:06
In reply to Re: Today » TexasChic, posted by milly on April 27, 2006, at 9:44:01
Right before I got off work today, I heard everyone talking about going out for Cuteboy’s birthday. I went up to him and said, "What's the deal, am I not invited?" He said, "Well I knew you didn't like them..." I said, "Um, it's them who don't like me, remember?" Then he says, "Well its up to you, I won't stop you from going but..." I was like, "You won't stop me from going??!! Yeah, that makes me feel really wanted!" He starts going, "No, no, no" (or something) and I just said forget it and turned around and walked off. And he doesn't even try to talk to me! He acted like, 'oh well, that's that' or something. Actually he acted kind of pissed. I've never really seen him mad so I don't know. I can't believe I was ever stupid enough to think he gave a damn about me. God, I just really hate people right now.
I sent him an email. Yeah, I know, that has bad idea written all over it. But I felt like I'd probably never get the chance to say what I wanted to if I didn't.
Here's what I said:
I don't know when you'll read this. It doesn't really matter - I don't expect a response from you anyway.You really hurt my feelings today. If you actually gave a damn about me you would have told me what was going on instead of letting me hear through the work grapevine that I was being left out. And then when I ask you about it you tell me you ‘won’t stop me from going???’ I think that’s the most insulting thing anyone has ever said to me!
But don’t worry, I got the message loud and clear. It’d be kind of stupid of me to keep trying to be friends with someone who’s clearly not interested.
You won't be bothered by me again.
------------I feel better after saying those things to him (even through email). The one thing I've got to do though is make myself not expect a response. I have a tendency to imagine how someone will respond to something I say, and then when they don't I get all upset. There's a very good chance he won't say anything at all. I've got to accept that. Well, I said I needed something to get over him. I guess this is it.
Anyway, I'm gradually getting calmer about this whole thing (I sobbed all the way home). I'm thinking ColdShoulderGirl may have been the one who set this outing up, which makes it a little less insulting then if he set it up and chose her over me (which was what I was thinking). And he MAY have mis-spoke when he said won’t stop me from going. But the fact that he doesn't even care enough to TRY to to talk to me about it is what's so upsetting. Its like a big neon sign saying, 'I DON'T GIVE A SH*T ABOUT YOU!! GET THE MESSAGE?'
Oh well, I have an interview Monday. Maybe it will turn out to be my dream job. I just emailed my resume last night, and he wanted me to come in today! I accidentally left my phone at home though, so I got the message after work hours. Wow, wouldn't it be cool if I got this job and was able to just tell the whole work bunch to f*ck off? I'll try not to get my hopes up, but at least I'm TRYING to make changes in my life for the better. There's got to be some normal people out there who won't hate me for no reason or freak out and throw their book in the trash or say things like "I won't stop you from going"!!!!
I know the only person who can change things is me. And I WILL do that. But first I'm going to complain and throw a tantrum for a little while. I'm in a lull right now, but if I start thinking about it I may start crying again. At least tomorrow my nephew is coming over and I won't be able to think about all that much. By Monday I should be okay I think.
He's still a bastard though. Maybe that's what I'll start calling him, BastardBoy
-T
Posted by TexasChic on April 28, 2006, at 20:21:56
In reply to !@#$%, posted by TexasChic on April 28, 2006, at 19:23:06
I was going along just fine, thinking, I've got a handle on this, when I burst into tears. I'm trying to stay positive, but he just suddenly popped into my head being all cute and everything, and I realized how really sad I am. I've been upset alot lately, but I think this is the first time I've felt sad. Its guess I've finally given up on that dream.
I have to get out of that place I work at. Its taken over my life! That just can't be healthy. Hopefully one of these places I'm applying at will work out.
I'm actually kind of excited to meet new people. I won't be so quick to make friends with them or anything, but new people and places still sounds good to me. I didn't realize how sick and tired I am of those people I work with! I guess since I've given up on the one thing that made me enjoy working there, all I see is the crap.
I'm such an idiot.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on April 28, 2006, at 20:47:30
In reply to Re: !@#$%, posted by TexasChic on April 28, 2006, at 20:21:56
Now I'm freaking out over the email. Was it totally stupid? I tried really hard not say anything manipulative, or try to get sympathy. Whenever I do that I know later it will look really stupid to me.
Does it reveal how I really feel about him? Or sound excessive? I tend to be over dramatic when I'm upset.
What if he never speaks to me again? Can I really handle that? How on earth do you get over this feeling???
-T
Posted by milly on April 29, 2006, at 4:29:10
In reply to !@#$%, posted by TexasChic on April 28, 2006, at 19:23:06
> Right before I got off work today, I heard everyone talking about going out for Cuteboy’s birthday. I went up to him and said, "What's the deal, am I not invited?" He said, "Well I knew you didn't like them..." I said, "Um, it's them who don't like me, remember?" Then he says, "Well its up to you, I won't stop you from going but..." I was like, "You won't stop me from going??!! Yeah, that makes me feel really wanted!" He starts going, "No, no, no" (or something) and I just said forget it and turned around and walked off. And he doesn't even try to talk to me! He acted like, 'oh well, that's that' or something. Actually he acted kind of pissed. I've never really seen him mad so I don't know. I can't believe I was ever stupid enough to think he gave a damn about me. God, I just really hate people right now.
***AAAAGGGGHHH that was horrid, it must have really hurt, I'm so sorry for you, you didn't need that knock.BUT what if he hadn't organised it though? what if 'they' had organised it? 'They' wouldn't have invited you, you know that, and maybe he didn't have the strength of character to say he wanted you included in his birthday outing. Just a thought, but that makes him (IMHO)a 'weak knee-ed,jelly fish' (oh bother jelly fish don't have knees so that didn't work too well!)
> I sent him an email. Yeah, I know, that has bad idea written all over it. But I felt like I'd probably never get the chance to say what I wanted to if I didn't.
***You've done it, so you probably needed to do it.
>
> Here's what I said:
> I don't know when you'll read this. It doesn't really matter - I don't expect a response from you anyway.
>
> You really hurt my feelings today. If you actually gave a damn about me you would have told me what was going on instead of letting me hear through the work grapevine that I was being left out. And then when I ask you about it you tell me you ‘won’t stop me from going???’ I think that’s the most insulting thing anyone has ever said to me!
>
> But don’t worry, I got the message loud and clear. It’d be kind of stupid of me to keep trying to be friends with someone who’s clearly not interested.
>
> You won't be bothered by me again.
> ------------
***IMHO that was aperfectly reasonable email, it told him you were hurt , which you were, it told him how he had hurt you.
>
> I feel better after saying those things to him (even through email). The one thing I've got to do though is make myself not expect a response. I have a tendency to imagine how someone will respond to something I say, and then when they don't I get all upset. There's a very good chance he won't say anything at all. I've got to accept that. Well, I said I needed something to get over him. I guess this is it.
>
> Anyway, I'm gradually getting calmer about this whole thing (I sobbed all the way home). I'm thinking ColdShoulderGirl may have been the one who set this outing up, which makes it a little less insulting then if he set it up and chose her over me (which was what I was thinking). And he MAY have mis-spoke when he said won’t stop me from going. But the fact that he doesn't even care enough to TRY to to talk to me about it is what's so upsetting. Its like a big neon sign saying, 'I DON'T GIVE A SH*T ABOUT YOU!! GET THE MESSAGE?'***He may care but be lousy at saying the right thing, what you need to hear, at the right time, when you need to hear it. (IMVHO lots of men are)
>
> Oh well, I have an interview Monday. Maybe it will turn out to be my dream job. I just emailed my resume last night, and he wanted me to come in today! I accidentally left my phone at home though, so I got the message after work hours. Wow, wouldn't it be cool if I got this job and was able to just tell the whole work bunch to f*ck off? I'll try not to get my hopes up, but at least I'm TRYING to make changes in my life for the better. There's got to be some normal people out there who won't hate me for no reason or freak out and throw their book in the trash or say things like "I won't stop you from going"!!!!***positive thinking I like it, wishing you all the best for Monday (check out their work place bullying policy while you're there!)
>
> I know the only person who can change things is me. And I WILL do that. But first I'm going to complain and throw a tantrum for a little while. I'm in a lull right now, but if I start thinking about it I may start crying again. At least tomorrow my nephew is coming over and I won't be able to think about all that much. By Monday I should be okay I think.***Throw a tantrum if you need to better out than in as they say
>
> He's still a bastard though. Maybe that's what I'll start calling him, BastardBoy
>
***Good name, take care
Milly
Posted by TexasChic on April 29, 2006, at 7:51:21
In reply to Re: !@#$% » TexasChic, posted by milly on April 29, 2006, at 4:29:10
I wasn't expecting that.
Here's what he wrote:
Im sorry, but basically I just didnt want to interact people I knew didnt get along. Ever since elementary Ive had friends that didnt like each other, so I just kept them seperated.
Pretty much, It wasnt my idea, or my plan (because I hate hooters) so I just left it up to them to pass the word along. I never invited F___, P____, B__ ect ect.. I was pretty much like, just give me a date and time, and I'll show up.
And, just today I was talking to N___ about getting the bowling thing started again (me, you, N___, and P____) And once again, I wasnt going to invite C_____ to that, because I know she hates N___. But thats nothing against C_____ . Its just me trying to keep the peace.
Sorry if I did a sh*tty job explaining that to you, but you just walked off halfway thru my sentence.---------
Here's what I wrote back:
Okay, maybe I overreacted a tiny bit. I'm just so, so tired of the thing with L___. I didn't ask for it, I did nothing to deserve it, but yet I keep being the one that loses out because of it. I guess I sort of took it out on you. But you have to realize that at the time I was thinking the hooters thing was something you had planned, chose L___ over me, and then told me you wouldn't stop me from going (basically saying you didn't want me to go). I walked off in the middle of you talking because I was just so insulted.I realize you have no reason to be loyal to me or anything, but when she engineers these things intentionally leaving me out, and makes sure I hear about it, for you to go along without any kind of objection is basically saying its all okay with you. But like I said, you have no reason to be loyal to me.
I'm sorry, I guess I'm expecting more from you than I should. That's my fault. I tend to do that. I sometimes forget other people aren't as intense about things as I am (and I guess I like you a tiny bit more than I should). Sorry I got mad at you.
------I just wrote it and sent it before I could change my mind. He really doesn't have any reason to choose me over anyone else. We're just all co-workers to him. Its not his fault I like him so much.
However, I do believe what I said about how not objecting is the same as agreeing.
Damn, and I got brave and told him I like him more than I should. Well, I guess it was something I needed to say, regardless of the consequences. We'll see where it goes from here.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on April 29, 2006, at 16:31:11
In reply to He wrote me back, posted by TexasChic on April 29, 2006, at 7:51:21
Well we've been talking back and forth, but I have no idea if its a good thing or bad thing. Basically, he doesn't believe me about ColdShoulderGirl and BitchyGirl bullying me. He thinks I'm a 'over reacting'. I told him:
"They've done this before, and everyone knows about it (and have told me about it). You don't know how many times I've heard, "They do this all the time, it was A––– last year, you're the one they picked this year, and it'll be someone else next year". They intentionally try to isolate people. Basically they're bullies. I know its hard to believe about L––, I can barely believe it myself and I've witnessed it." But he'll never believe me until he sees it for himself (which they will try to keep from happening).After telling me that it wasn't his idea or plan and he just left it up to them to pass the word along, he then turned around and said don't blame ColdShoulderGirl because she was just an invited guest and had nothing to do with it. I told him that I was confused (I mean, so now who was supposed to have planned the thing?) but I really didn't want to talk about anymore.
Then he said he assumed I wouldn't want to go because she was gonna be there, because he thought I had a 'major problem' with her. I told him:
"As I've said over and over, I don't have a problem with her, she is the one who suddenly stopped talking to me. I have no idea what the reason is, so I basically just try to stay out of the way."He then started comparing it to these other two people at work who are fighting. He said:
"I wouldn't invite C___ bowling, because she hates N___. I'm not choosing N___ over C___. Basically I just didnt want any drama, and as irony would have it, the whole thing created drama."I told him:
"Like I said, I was expecting too much from you. I'm the one who made the drama. That's why I apologized. I know you don't understand - that's okay. Don't worry about it. Just please stop comparing me to C–––– because that's not even remotely the same thing. That was a situation she helped create and I'm in a situation I didn't ask for or want." He apparently didn't get the hint that I got so upset because I like him a little more than a co-worker.He said:
"Seriously, there isn't a conspiracy against you, and the more you over react to this stuff, the more people are going to isolate you."I told him:
"I'm trying my best to ignore the situation, just hanging out with the guys and stuff. But I can't help it if I get upset about something. If the people at work choose to isolate me because of that, there's not a whole lot I can do about it. "He said:
"And I was being completely honest when I told you that there hasn't been any get togethers. So I hope you dont think this is some ongoing thing where we go out every weekend and don't tell you."I told him:
"I believed you when you told me that, but then the thing I was worried about happened. There was something planned that I was left out of because L––– has decided she doesn't like me. That's what happened and there's no way around it. But you know what, I don't even really care anymore. I'm just so tired of the drama. You really have no idea what I've been through with L––– and P–––.Then I said:
"I appreciate you writing back to me, I didn't really think you would. But I'm really sorry now that I started this whole dialogue with you. Please let's just forget about it. You don't owe me explanations for anything."So if anyone has actually read down this far, what do you think? Did I handle it right? Did I sound like a non-crazy person? Was I too harsh? Its really hard when he's basically saying I'm being paraniod and that's the main thing I struggle with. I mean, I have asked myself if this is all in my head, especially since ColdShoulderGirl is especially good at doing things while not incriminating herself. But I just don't think it is.
-T
Posted by verne on April 29, 2006, at 20:13:49
In reply to Re: He wrote me back, posted by TexasChic on April 29, 2006, at 16:31:11
I'm not sure too many people would respond well to the "expecting too much" comment. If someone said that to me, I would give them a wide berth in the future - out of self preservation.
You might examine this pattern of walking away in the middle of his explanation and then later wishing you hadn't started a dialogue when he returns your email.
I'm only hearing your side yet I think he makes some good points.
verne
Posted by TexasChic on April 29, 2006, at 21:03:40
In reply to Re: He wrote me back, posted by verne on April 29, 2006, at 20:13:49
> I'm not sure too many people would respond well to the "expecting too much" comment. If someone said that to me, I would give them a wide berth in the future - out of self preservation.
>
> You might examine this pattern of walking away in the middle of his explanation and then later wishing you hadn't started a dialogue when he returns your email.
>
> I'm only hearing your side yet I think he makes some good points.
>
> verneThanks for your response verne, its good to get a guy's point of view. When I said I was expecting too much, I meant I was getting mad at him for not doing things (like standing up for me) when I really had no right to be mad. I mean, he doesn't have to invite me anywhere if he doesn't want to. Did it come off sounding like something else?
As for the walking away, did you see what he said? I may not be describing it well but it was really insulting. The more he talked the worse it got. I was so-o-o mad. That's why I walked away.
As for me wishing I hadn't started the whole dialogue, I said that because I realized he didn't believe I was getting bullied by those girls, and thought I was just over reacting and being paraniod. I knew we weren't going to agree on that no matter how much we talked.
I know the reason I got so upset was a combination of the stress I've been under the last few weeks because of those girls, and the fact that I've had this crush on him forever. Plus, despite what he says, he actually did exactly what I was mad about - he excluded me because of the drama caused by someone else.
I was okay about everything, but now I'm all confused about it again. He probably thinks I'm a psycho.
-T
Posted by verne on April 29, 2006, at 21:25:27
In reply to Re: He wrote me back » verne, posted by TexasChic on April 29, 2006, at 21:03:40
I've been following your story and don't think you are being paranoid about the bullying and petty antics by the others in the office. I believe you.
For some reason this guy doesn't see what's going on. Best not to pressure him. You told him the way it is and he may one day begin to see things as they really are.
Like you, I'm sensitive to this sort of thing but many aren't and don't even know what we're talking about. And when I get emotional about something they seem almost amused. I mean, I can tell they aren't even listening anymore. (Like the VanCom lady, "La,La,La,La" with a finger in each ear). MadTv if you haven't seen her.
I guess I'm trying to say that even if he's completely wrong at first, give him a chance - just let him be wrong, blind, or indifferent while at the same time, be gently assertive and stick to the truth.
I think when people are pressured to agree with something right away, they just dig in their heels even more. It may take him awhile to get it.
I believe you.
Verne
Posted by TexasChic on April 29, 2006, at 22:36:11
In reply to Re: He wrote me back » TexasChic, posted by verne on April 29, 2006, at 21:25:27
> I've been following your story and don't think you are being paranoid about the bullying and petty antics by the others in the office. I believe you.
>
> For some reason this guy doesn't see what's going on. Best not to pressure him. You told him the way it is and he may one day begin to see things as they really are.
>
> Like you, I'm sensitive to this sort of thing but many aren't and don't even know what we're talking about. And when I get emotional about something they seem almost amused. I mean, I can tell they aren't even listening anymore. (Like the VanCom lady, "La,La,La,La" with a finger in each ear). MadTv if you haven't seen her.
>
> I guess I'm trying to say that even if he's completely wrong at first, give him a chance - just let him be wrong, blind, or indifferent while at the same time, be gently assertive and stick to the truth.
>
> I think when people are pressured to agree with something right away, they just dig in their heels even more. It may take him awhile to get it.
>
> I believe you.
>
> VerneAw-w-w, that's so sweet Verne! Thank you for believing in me. You don't know how good that made me feel.
As for being overly sensitive, I try to remind myself that its these same qualities that make me care about people so much. I guess you can't just turn it off and on, its always there. Maybe I'll learn how to channel it better someday.
After I read your post I realized how alot of what I said could be misinterpreted. I just couldn't leave it like that so I sent him an email to try to explain things. I know you're probably like, "No, no! Don't write anything else!" But I think it actually turned out pretty good. Its alot more calm and sane than any of my other emails to him. I'm not going to worry about it anymore.
Maybe someday I'll meet someone who finds my exuberant emotions endearing. Ha, ha!
-T
Posted by TexasChic on April 30, 2006, at 14:31:29
In reply to Re: He wrote me back, posted by TexasChic on April 29, 2006, at 22:36:11
Okay, three things are bothering me. First, I still think it was hurtful and insulting to be intentionally left out of a birthday get together. There is no way around the fact that I was excluded because Coldshouldergirl decided she didn't like me anymore.
The second is when he said: "the more you over react to this stuff, the more people are going to isolate you". That makes me think, so people are isolating me already? Because he tried really hard to make me think that wasn't the case with the get together. And who knows I over reacted? I don't think anyone heard me or realized I got mad.
Which leads me to the third, I can't help but wonder if this was discussed at the get together.
I think I've done pretty well at not reacting to the things that have happened. Other than crying at my desk that is. Although no one ever seemed to notice, I still feel imbarassed about that. I keep telling myself, how would they know WHAT I was crying about? One day I was upset about something entirely different that had nothing to do with work. I remember thinking, they probably think this is because of them.
I'm just full of self doubt and dreading being around those people tomorrow. I guess my biggest fear is to be talked about behind my back. It would be hard to believe it hasn't happened at some point or another in this situation. I know they discussed me having anxiety and taking medication, so I would assume they have discussed more. I keep thinking they're probably saying I'm psycho. So many other people up there have obvious mental problems, I was just open about mine.
I also hate that I always manage to put myself down in front of people! I realized I did alot of that in the emails with Cuteboy this weekend. I mean, I said I over reacted, but now that I think about it, I don't think I did. I think that was a perfectly natural reaction to the situation. I even apologized and said it was my fault! I said I created all the drama! What the hell is wrong with me? I always do that, and it always makes people think less of me every time (I can remember this happening in several past relationships). Now I wish I could take it all back, but then it would make me look even crazier. Plus, knowing he thinks I'm thinking one way, when I'm really thinking another is just upsetting. What if I get mixed up on what I said before, and how I feel now. I know I should just let it go and move on. I mean, its obvious Cuteboy isn't interested in me or I don't believe any of this would have happened. But its so hard to make my brain stop obsessing about these things.
I'm also nervous about the interview tomorrow. I don't have any of my work from my current job in my portfolio, so tomorrow I will have to figure out how to get some stuff together without anyone noticing. I always get anxiety about things I have to do in the future when there is doubt as to whether it will work out or not. Also, interviews are just nerve racking. I keep telling myself I'm not desperate, I have a job already. So I should be able to shop around and check some places out. But then all the drama at work makes me want to get out of there as soon as possible.
Well, that's it for my obsessive rant for now. I'm going to take a nap. I had my nephew over this weekend and that always makes me so tired! I wish I had half his energy.
-T
Posted by Racer on April 30, 2006, at 14:59:33
In reply to Now I'm obsessing, posted by TexasChic on April 30, 2006, at 14:31:29
Hey, TC -- I have to admit, I didn't have time to read the whole thing just now, but a couple of thoughts that I had from what I did read:
The biggest one is that you probably weren't discussed, because -- this is a general statement, NOT a reflection on you -- you probably aren't really important enough to any of these chicks for them to bother with when there are men around. Honestly -- they probably giggle in a nasty way about you in the ladies room when they've just done something to you, and probably did exclude you and snicker about that when they first did it -- and then forgot you existed.
And yes, I do feel this sort of behavior, because I have had it done to me, and I know it hurts beyond belief -- and that it hurts more to know that the people who have hurt me so badly don't really know that I exist! Sometimes it helps me a bit to think in terms of Object Permanence, Borderline, etc -- "they can't conceive of me having any OP, because they are not developed adequately to do so..." Doesn't help much.
What does help, though, is reminding myself when I start to get upset, "This is my reaction. They probably aren't talking about me behind my back, because they probably can't remember that I exist long enough to do so. And if they are talking about me behind my back, and saying terrible things, it really doesn't hurt me. It's my imagination thinking of what they're saying that hurts me." Does that make sense? It's not thinking in words, you know...
Anyway, the other thing is that yes, these girls are excluding you, and that sucks, and CuteBoy has been sucked into it. That doesn't mean that he's taking one side or another between you, though. It means that he's taking HIS OWN SIDE. Which is what all of us should be able to do.
It's unfortunate that he used the phrase "over reacting." That is a ridiculous comment, in most cases. What is true, though, is that your reaction is much more apparent to others than you think. Those children know they're getting to you, which is why they keep doing it. The best thing you can do for yourself AND for the office as a whole is to find a way to respond effectively. How you do that will vary, according to your own self-confidence, personality, temperament, etc. I am terrible at that, so I would probably have a breakdown. I don't recommend that option, though...
My advice? First, take a look around you, with the emotions held in check. Who are these children really friends with? Of the rest, who is interesting enough to you for you to invite to lunch? Take an active role, and ask someone out for lunch. Ignore the children, don't look longingly at the play groups, just focus on getting to know other people in your environment whom you might find interesting. Invite two or three of them out for lunch at a time, and do invite women more than men. (lots of reasons for that...) The more contact you have with others WITHOUT ANY REFERENCE TO THE IDIOT CHILDREN, the less power anyone will have to isolate you.
And, in the course of all this redirecting of your focus, include CuteBoy in lunches. "Hey, AccountantLady and I are getting Chinese for lunch, wanna come?" Just -- keep things easy.
Also, life advice here: this is work, not life, so find other things to make a life out of. Take a community education class one evening a week -- ceramics, yoga, car repair, whatever. Just something that interests you and helps you keep work in perspective.
I hope you feel better about this situation soon. Or that the IC grow clues very soon...
Posted by TexasChic on April 30, 2006, at 18:13:46
In reply to Re: Now I'm obsessing, posted by Racer on April 30, 2006, at 14:59:33
> It's my imagination thinking of what they're saying that hurts me." Does that make sense? It's not thinking in words, you know...
Actually that makes alot of sense. Dwelling on these things is hurting myself. I've been successful at incorporating the principles of karma into my life in the past, but I think I've been slacking. I need to work on banning those negative thoughts in order not to attract more negativity.
> It's unfortunate that he used the phrase "over reacting."
Actually, I used it first. So I don't know if he was just repeating back to me what I had said, or actually making that statement.
>... your reaction is much more apparent to others than you think. Those children know they're getting to you, which is why they keep doing it.
How can they do that if they forgot I existed? I really don't think they've forgotten. There's been too many blatant things lately. Plus, this is apparently what they do for fun. They pick someone every year to ostracise.
> My advice? First, take a look around you, with the emotions held in check. Who are these children really friends with? Of the rest, who is interesting enough to you for you to invite to lunch? Take an active role, and ask someone out for lunch.
I've actually tried something similiar to that. It didn't really work. The people I picked ended up being under the influence of the 'idiot children'. However, there are a couple others I've thought about trying to hang out with, who have no attachment to the IC. I'll try again with them.
>The more contact you have with others WITHOUT ANY REFERENCE TO THE IDIOT CHILDREN, the less power anyone will have to isolate you.
That's good advice. I've been trying to do that, but I sometimes end up referencing the idiot children in spite of myself. I'll have to be strickter about that.
> And, in the course of all this redirecting of your focus, include CuteBoy in lunches.
I'm kind of mad at him. I know the way he handled it was probably the most logical, but I don't know, I'm just still mad about it. I may be hanging onto it as a shield against being hurt. I don't know.
> Also, life advice here: this is work, not life, so find other things to make a life out of. Take a community education class one evening a week -- ceramics, yoga, car repair, whatever. Just something that interests you and helps you keep work in perspective.
I've actually been telling myself this for a while. I chant to myself, "work is not my life!" (although I haven't been doing it lately). I've even looked into the courses (the exact ones you mentioned!). I guess I just haven't followed through. I seem to have gotten off track somewhere along the way.
You've given me alot to think about. I've got to work on banning those negative thoughts. One of the courses I looked into is a class on Meditation. It seems like it was inexpensive too. I'll see when that starts.
Thanks for the advice!
-T
Posted by Racer on May 1, 2006, at 13:33:45
In reply to Re: Now I'm obsessing » Racer, posted by TexasChic on April 30, 2006, at 18:13:46
> >
> >... your reaction is much more apparent to others than you think. Those children know they're getting to you, which is why they keep doing it.
>
> How can they do that if they forgot I existed? I really don't think they've forgotten. There's been too many blatant things lately. Plus, this is apparently what they do for fun. They pick someone every year to ostracise.OK, but that's still not about *you* -- you just take up the space they're using as a target. They can't see *you* at all. But they get their gratification from seeing the reactions their behavior triggers. And, no matter how much you think it doesn't show, I've learned that it does show. (This is about me, now -- I always think I don't show any reaction, but I know that I do.)
>
>
> > Also, life advice here: this is work, not life, so find other things to make a life out of. Take a community education class one evening a week -- ceramics, yoga, car repair, whatever. Just something that interests you and helps you keep work in perspective.
>
> I've actually been telling myself this for a while. I chant to myself, "work is not my life!" (although I haven't been doing it lately). I've even looked into the courses (the exact ones you mentioned!). I guess I just haven't followed through. I seem to have gotten off track somewhere along the way.
>
> You've given me alot to think about. I've got to work on banning those negative thoughts. One of the courses I looked into is a class on Meditation. It seems like it was inexpensive too. I'll see when that starts.
>
> Thanks for the advice!
>
> -T
>
>OK, now for the nagging: sign up for the class. I strongly suggest ceramics, but that's because I want to take it myself. (Think about slamming that clay down to get out air bubbles... Mmmm.... Think of that being the strife you're feeling, you're going to pound it out of there...) Dance might be good, too. But do sign up for something.
And don't try to "banish" bad thoughts, so much as trying to learn to cope with them. You're always going to have some bad thoughts, that's part of being a human being who does think. The miracle is learning how to deal with them when they do happen. My own advice on this matter is to accept the thought, and counter it. Say to yourself what you would say to someone else. I'm trying to think of the sort of thing where I do this successfully....
OK, knitting. I don't plan much about what I'm knitting, I just do it, so I often hit places I didn't plan for that require extensive thinking to get through. When that happens, my first thoughts are some variation of "I don't plan, because I'm too lazy, and if I did what I needed to do, I wouldn't get into this sort of trouble, and now I won't finish this because anything I do will be wrong..." You know the sort of thing I mean? My counter to that is something like: "It might be easier if I planned more, but then I'd probably never actually make anything, I'd just plan. And I can finish this, because I can work out problems. And if my solution really is wrong, I can tear it out and knit it again. Besides, if it really doesn't ever work, I can always give it to Goodwill so someone else can wear it." It doesn't stop me from having bad thoughts, but it does make it easier to deal with them when they do occur.
These days, when those bad knitting thoughts start, I don't even get to the end of the Bad Thought -- if a BKT starts, the next thing I know, I'm casting on a pair of socks, so that I'll have something to knit while I work out how to fix my problem. (It also helps that I know I have fixed other problems and finished other projects.) Practice has made it happen without any conscious thought on my part. So, while the BKT may still come along, I don't pay attention to it, so it may as well not be there.
So, that's a long way of saying, "Are you going to show us your pots when you've finished them?"
Posted by TexasChic on May 1, 2006, at 20:41:54
In reply to Advice that borders on nagging... » TexasChic, posted by Racer on May 1, 2006, at 13:33:45
You're not nagging, you're giving advice and I appreciate that. Of course I will think things through and decide what I think is best for me, but I consider it all very seriously and it's all appreciated.
I have been wanting to take ceramics, it sounds so fun. But the class is $200, the same as the computer course I'd like to take. The meditation class is only $47 and I am really interested in that. I have tried to meditate but can't really figure out how to do it, so I thought a class might be good. The yoga and kickboxing are that price too. So I might be able take a couple of those.
I understand what you're saying about the knitting. I know I need something to take care of that nervous energy. I bought a learn to knit kit, but it kind of intimitated me. I might try something easier to start off with like cross stitch.
When I was talking about banishing bad thoughts, I meant my obsessive and paranoid thoughts. I have to learn to let some of that go. I see what you mean though about figuring through them instead of trying to banish them.
Now, on to today. Cuteboy took the day off, so I didn't have to deal with that today. However, ALL DAY LONG everyone talked and laughed (loudly) about the birthday thing and all the antics that went on. ALL DAY! Buy the end of the day I was furious. I thought, I did nothing to deserve this and it just isn't right that I'm paying the price because some crazy bitch decided she doesn't like me anymore (for no reason I can fanthom). I just thought, screw this! I have every right to be hurt and angry. Of course, he can choose to invite whoever he wants, but that doesn't mean I have to just be okay with it. If that is the way he's going to be, I have to let him know its not okay with me, and if he doesn't give a damn then I'm better off without him. Now I'm not saying I won't give him a chance or anything, I just think if he acts like he doesn't care, then its high time I stopped pursuing the whole thing.
As for the interview, it went really well. I felt like I was more than qualified and had examples to back it up. But I can''t say I got a feeling one way or another about it. He said he had seen alot of very talented graphic artists. The good thing is he said he would decide by the end of the week.
They sell software and he said they can get it for their employes low cost or sometimes even free. That was enough to make me want the job right there. The REALLY cool thing is he said that some who didn't get chosen would be offered freelance work. I told him I don't have the software at home and he said, "Oh, we'd set you up". I was so close to saying I love you.
I'm really wanting to work for a large company, and this one only has 50 people. But if the benifits out way the that one thing, I'll definitely go for it.
If nothing else, I felt so much better after the interview. Before I got there, I was close to tears. Afterwards I was excited and feeling much more positive. Part of it was just seeing a different place and thinking, "I could see myself here". It helped me realize I can't be so complacent and need to pursure better things for myself.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on May 2, 2006, at 16:42:01
In reply to Not nagging » Racer, posted by TexasChic on May 1, 2006, at 20:41:54
The whole thing with being ignored and isolated is upsetting, but I've realized the real underlying cause of what gets me upset involves Cuteboy. Today I went in still indignant and pissed off and knew I needed to let go of that dream. So I avoided eye contact and didn't speak to him all day. I was okay until for some reason, in the last two hours I got really upset about it. From past experience I know if I ignore him he's going to retreat even further. But even knowing that, and knowing he can't possibly care about me much more than a casual aquiantance, in the back of my mind I guess I still held out hope. I mean, logically I know its not going to happen, but yet somewhere inside I cant let it go. So for about the past two hours I cried silently at my desk. I knew what I wanted was for him to say something to me, to express concern that I was upset with him, but I also knew that wasn't going to happen. How do you deal when the person you like so much doesn't feel the same? I just feel heartbroken. As much as it tears at my heart, I hope I get that job just so I can get away from him and never see him again. How else am I ever going to get over this? I just can't stop crying.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on May 2, 2006, at 19:20:10
In reply to I'm so sad, posted by TexasChic on May 2, 2006, at 16:42:01
And a few beers and a few bowls later, I'm feeling all better! Just kidding, well, kind of. Anyway, I worked it out in my head what I want to do and I suddenly felt better.
Okay, imagine I get this new job, I've already thought about asking my boss to keep it to himself that I'm leaving. I could work out my two weeks and then one day just not show up. It'd be nice to work the last two weeks out without the 'nosy bitches gang' snooping around trying to find out all the little details. What on earth makes my life so fascinating to them? Its just WEIRD.
I was told this morning that one of them walked by my desk and says in a loud voice, "Well, I guess T's late again." I heard this from two different people! I could go on and on about this chic's antics, from making excuses to come in the room where I'm talking to someone, to saying loud sarcastic things to the person right next to her. For instance; "Well if SOMEBODY would do some WORK around here..." Its unbelievably ridiculous.
The second part of my plan is, after my last day, I'll email Cuteboy, tell him about the new job, and well... you know ... that I have huge crush on him! At least it will help explain why I acted like such an idiot around him all the time. I'll probably never see him again, so I can spare that embarrassment. Plus, I will know once and for all that he 'knows', and that if he was interested, he would do something about it. This way it'll be totally in his court and I can let it go-o-o-o. Now whether I actually have the nerve to DO all this or not, or even get the job for that matter, is debatable. But I feel better having a plan. Which is good since I was crying my eyes out while writing that first post!
-T
Posted by TexasChic on May 3, 2006, at 18:15:21
In reply to Re: I'm so sad, posted by TexasChic on May 2, 2006, at 19:20:10
Its so weird, when I was in desperate need of a job, I couldn't get a call back for a month. Now, I send my resume thinking I have all this time, and within a few days I have two different interviews! My second interview is on Monday (cool place too).
For the first time this week I didn't cry once at work! Somehow making that half *ssed plan took care of my worries and made me feel better. Well, that and the interviews.
I still didn't speak to Cuteboy today, I haven't all week. I've tried to avoid speaking to him in the past, because I always seem to be the one to initiate conversations. He just never seemed to notice. But oh boy, he notices now! I catch him looking at me all the time. He held the door open for me today and I had to walk right past him staring at me. I looked right at him and gave a very subdued 'thanks', and walked on (I don't count that as talking). I know he'll eventually just say 'screw it' and give up, but for now its nice to be indignant for once instead of a door mat. I'm getting a little better at standing up for myself, and I've noticed you get alot more respect that way.
I've noticed that Coldshouldergirl's two male friends seem to be trying to be extra nice to me. I sometimes wonder if the fact that I got along with them so well right off the bat was the reason she turned on me. I'm pretty sure it had something to do with it. They also make it more fun to ignore Cuteboy.
Today I was sitting outside on break with one of these guys, the rest of the group was standing a little ways off. I saw him roll his eyes and I said, "What?" He said, "They're STILL talking about Friday!" I was like, AH-HA! I knew I wasn't just being paranoid! (This was in my head, not aloud). Turns out he didn't go either, because he had something to do. He wasn't snubbed like me, but was still finding all the talk annoying. It made me feel better.
So I'm just going along, doing my thing, talking to the people who talk to me (mostly guys), and trying not to let the others get to me. Today was a much better day.
-T
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