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Re: an argument for existance alexandra_k

Posted by rayww on October 27, 2004, at 16:16:11

In reply to Re: an argument for existance, posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2004, at 21:39:23

Pascal's wager, I like that. May I apply the same wager to my own particular belief and rationalize that even if it were possible that it could be proved to be wrong, I'm still at a +1?

Now I'm being facetious.

but on a more serious note, I agree and disagree with the following that you wrote:

"Hume said that when confronted with a miracle one should ask oneself whether it is more miraculous that the miracle occurred - or that the person be mistaken about the occurrance of a miracle. He thinks that we should believe in what is most likely, and that it is always more likely that someone be mistaken than a miracle occurring."

"I suppose that when I hear people say that they have experienced god I wonder whether it is more likely that they are mistaken about the nature of their experience, or more likely that they have experienced god - and I conclude that it is more likely that they are mistaken about the nature of their experience."

<<Depending upon how one defines miracle, miracles are somewhat the daily norm. There are big miracles and little ones, and sometimes the tiniest of all are the most significant. Faith preceeds the miracle. After the trial of your faith come the blessings.
http://scriptures.lds.org/ether/12/6#6

In my scriptures I have noted that Joseph Smith read this particular chapter and turned the leaf of the page down on the morning of his death. It was therefore his last message to the world.

A little background on the preceeding verse. The book of Mormon is an abridgement of records written over a period of 1000 years, from 600BC to 421AD. Mormon abridged the records and in about 421AD his son, Moroni sealed it up to preserve for the future. As he went through it, he also interjected some of his own thoughts and observations. This scripture in Ether12 is one such example. Moroni is writing in about 421 AD, but the record in Ether that he was reading from was recorded several centuries earlier (1200 to about 200 BC).

After Mormon and Moroni finished the work that they were 'commanded' to do by God, before Moroni died, he placed it in a stone box, and buried it in the ground, where it lay undisturbed for 1400 years, until again by the will of God, Moroni came in person (as a glorified resurrected being) and delivered it to Joseph Smith. Each step here was a miracle, likely the most significant miracles of all time, yet it is only believed by a few. Why when there are so many witnesses recorded:
http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/thrwtnss
http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/eghtwtns
http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/jsphsmth

Miracles are proven by divine witnesses and evidence, and unles one has faith, they will not see it. This principle is explained in Ether 12. But, it takes faith to believe, because after the trial of one's faith will come the divine witness. Faith Preceeds the Miracle.

If people choose to discount all possibility of miracles they may pretty much eliminate all possiblity of ever having one.

I used the example of miracles that is the most familiar and well known to prove the point that you made. Namely, people generally don't believe in miracles unless they already have faith in God.


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poster:rayww thread:402858
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040914/msgs/408011.html