Posted by JLx on May 24, 2005, at 23:11:45
In reply to Re: Where to find, questions....Larry, » JLxx, posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 14:52:33
> I really like the work you do. It is very thorough and progressive in scope.
Thank you very much!
> > I went in search of more info about uridine and found out a few interesting things and also have some questions.
> >
> > It's of interest in counteracting toxicity in cancer treatments and also AIDS:
> >
> > http://annonc.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/4/4/317
>
> Not relevant to people not taking the chemotherapy drug.
>
> > http://www.aidsmeds.com/Fusetalk/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=15506&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=
> >
> > http://www.powerhealthreview.com/show.php?id=14
>
> Not relevant to people not taking AIDS drugs.
>
> > The link from the AIDS forum has info about a product called NucleomaxX. http://www.nucleomaxx.com/ which apparently does increase uridine: http://www.aegis.com/conferences/6thLipo/30.html
>
> Expensive! Hoi!
>
> > The science here is incomprehensible to me, but do I gather that there is some connection to magnesium and uridine? More or "enough" magnesium means more or enough uridine? http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/102/3/662
>
> Unless you're grossly deficient in magnesium, and those other uptake factors, this is not an issue. The experiment was to determine if one or more than one uptake mechanisms existed, and they found the answer: more than one.
>
> > I wondered if there was some kind of precursor to uridine and am not sure of the science here either, but these articles discuss citicolene:
>
> > Another article discussing choline and the research by Richard Wurtman and others,
> > http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20031122/food.asp
> >
> > On the bottom of this page about Wurtman he says,
> > http://web.mit.edu/bcs/people/wurtman.shtml
>
> > I'm left with a few questions: Does taking CDP-choline equal taking uridine?
>
> This question was answered with two simple keywords in Pubmed: Wurtman uridine
>
> Sometimes, it's that simple.
>
> Biochem Pharmacol. 2000 Oct 1;60(7):989-92.
> Effect of oral CDP-choline on plasma choline and uridine levels in humans.
>
> Wurtman RJ, Regan M, Ulus I, Yu L.
>
> Department of Brain & Cognitive Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA. dick@mit.edu
>
> Twelve mildly hypertensive but otherwise normal fasting subjects received each of four treatments in random order: CDP-choline (citicoline; 500, 2000, and 4000 mg) or a placebo orally at 8:00 a.m. on four different treatment days. Eleven plasma samples from each subject, obtained just prior to treatment (8:00 a.m.) and 1-12 hr thereafter, were assayed for choline, cytidine, and uridine. Fasting terminated at noon with consumption of a light lunch that contained about 100 mg choline. Plasma choline exhibited dose-related increases in peak values and areas under the curves (AUCs), remaining significantly elevated, after each of the three doses, for 5, 8, and 10 hr, respectively. Plasma uridine was elevated significantly for 5-6 hr after all three doses, increasing by as much as 70-90% after the 500 mg dose, and by 100-120% after the 2000 mg dose. No further increase was noted when the dose was raised from 2000 to 4000 mg. Plasma cytidine was not reliably detectable, since it was less than twice blank, or less than 100 nM, at all of the doses. Uridine is known to enter the brain and to be converted to UTP; moreover, we found that uridine was converted directly to CTP in neuron-derived PC-12 cells. Hence, it seems likely that the circulating substrates through which oral citicoline increases membrane phosphatide synthesis in the brains of humans involve uridine and choline, and not cytidine and choline as in rats.So, it sounds like 500 mg to 1000 mg citicholine taking along with fish oil might be worth a shot at duplicating those test results mentioned in Peter's original post: http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20050325-000002.html
> > What kinds of depressive variations might it be contraindicated for?
>
> This question, I cannot answer.
>
> > Uridine is listed directly on this wholesale supplier's site, so why does it have to be made into a drug? http://www.aminoactives.com/available.cfm
> >
> > If it can be synthetized into baby formula, again why are their "drug" trials about it?
>
> Obtaining it in pure chemical form is the tricky part. Obtaining it as a component of a mixture, or in semi-pure form, is not nearly so difficult (or costly). If you buy from a chemical house, you're paying for isolating the chemical.
>
> The "drug trials" were to counteract the specific side-effects of drugs. For example, the HIV virus is an RNA-dependent organism. Uridine is a constituent of RNA. Some anti-HIV drugs disturb all RNA metabolism, including that of the host (the human). We need RNA, too. So, interventions that boosted uridine were being tried, to reduce side-effects.Sorry, I didn't realize I was referring to Peter's post in another thread. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050408/msgs/483146.html
> > Would it be worth a try to guzzle baby formula combined with fish oil to try to duplicate the test results?? Sounds harmless enough at least. :) How much would it take? Or would CDP-choline be a better trial? Or have I misunderstood much of this?
> >
> > JL
>
> CDP-choline shows evidence of substantially boosting blood uridine levels. I don't think there's enough in baby formula to make a big difference, unless you tried to subsist on it.
>
> Here's something I came across while investigating the biochemistry of uridine.
>
> Orotic acid.
>
> We've heard of that, lots of times. Lithium orotate is the salt of lithium cations and oratic acid anions.
>
> Another name for orotic acid is uracil-6-carboxylic acid.
>
> Uracil is one ribose sugar away from uridine.
>
> So, maybe all those people thinking they were treating themselves with lithium were feeling better from the orotic acid?
>
> I'm speculating, on that.
>
> However, magnesium orotate is quite inexpensive, here:
> http://vitanetonline.com/description/71060-K/vitamins/Magnesium-Orotate/
>
> Other sources are four times that cost, and I don't know why.
>
> LarVery intriguing! I love magnesium, as you know, so I am definitely going to give that form a try.
JL
poster:JLx
thread:481903
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050510/msgs/502551.html