Posted by Dr. Bob on November 27, 2010, at 4:15:27
In reply to Re: realistic possibilities, posted by muffled on November 9, 2010, at 18:26:02
> > > Mahatma Gandhi outlined several rules for civil resisters (or satyagrahi) in the time when he was leading India in the struggle for Independence from the British Empire. For instance, they were to express no anger, never retaliate, submit to the opponent's orders and assaults, submit to arrest by the authorities, surrender personal property when confiscated by the authorities but refuse to surrender property held in trust, refrain from swearing and insults (which are contrary to ahimsa), refrain from saluting the Union flag, and protect officials from insults and assaults even at the risk of the resister's own life.
> >
> > In the context of civil disobedience here:
> >
> > officials = me and deputies
> > insults and assaults = incivility
> > resisters = martyrs
>
> So, to me not all assaults are uncivil.
> Alot of what are being considered asaults are just discussion.
> Sometimes insults are just facts being pointed out.
> Sometimes resisters will choose to martyr themsleves, some times not.
> But resisters doesn't equal martyrs.
> If noone ever resisted, we women still wouldn't have a vote.
> If noone ever resisted, black people would still be treated as less than human. If noone resisted there would be no government policy changed for the better.
> etc.
> And I not trying to be disobedient here.
> I just want to effect change where I can.
> I have effected changes w/in the area I live.
> If people band together with a common goal policies can be changed.
> Its the squeaky wheel that gets oiled in this world.
> If everyone just sat at home and noone dared to speak up, this world would be a sorry place.
> I beleive that where I am in community, I have a voice, along with others in the community. Be it my municipality, school district, church etc."Martyrs" was from an exchange with Alex, and the equivalencies were from the context of civil disobedience.
IMO, the issue is how to effect change effectively. Civil disobedience can be effective at effecting change. Uncivil disobedience is ineffective at effecting change, at least here.
> I want to be involved here, but over the years I have concluded that I can't work w/Bob cuz he doesn't seem to work with others well. His communication skills, which are uber important in this scenario, seem to be lacking.
> I can't work w/someone who is a rougue and doesn't work WITH the group.
>
> Definition of ROGUE
> 1: resembling or suggesting a rogue elephant especially in being isolated, aberrant, dangerous, or uncontrollable <capsized by a rogue wave>I'm isolated, aberrant, uncontrollable, and perceived by some to be dangerous -- because I'm the administrator. A rogue poster is more like a rogue elephant than I am.
> If Bob could change his spots, I'd run w/him, but I have yet to see any real change in his overall behaviours.
> he has 'seemed' to work w/us before.
> Is this just the same thing? I don't know.
> So, ya, I have eternal faith in miracles, but alot of doubt about Bob's abilities to carry these ideas through.
> Not that Bob is bad. Bob is Bob. I even kinda like him to some extent. But I Can't abide his managment of this place.
> I still want to dream tho....4 of the ideas listed before would be up to me to carry through.
4 would be up to posters to carry through.
5 would be up to me or posters to carry through.I still want to dream, too.
Bob
a brilliant and reticent Web mastermind -- The New York Times
backpedals well -- PartlyCloudy
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:965628
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101014/msgs/971437.html