Posted by special_k on April 18, 2006, at 16:42:35
In reply to Re: Well, since you asked » special_k, posted by AuntieMel on April 18, 2006, at 14:05:21
> But I do feel bothered, though I'm not sure if it's hurt, annoyance or what, by statememts like this.
the statment appeared in the context of a post. and in that post i clarified 1) what i took the american ideal to be (that gives you the chance to go aha you have simply misunderstood it / misdescribed it / etc) and 2) why i was opposed to it (on justice considerations and i specified what i considered to be unjust about it) and you could of course have disagreement with the consenquences being injustices as i described them.
so in the context...
> There are US policies that I oppose and there are some I agree with.me too.
> But when I feel that they are all being lumped together as one, I find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to defend my country
But then... You do seem to have assumed that I am 'anti american' railing at the 'great satan' on a number of occasions where i really haven't been. and so... maybe you are predisposed to see people as lumping them all together??? i find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to say 'i am not anti american' over and over and over... i'm not attacking your country. but even if i was... i can't do any damage to your country with words. and i'm not talking about you. i'm talking about your country. but it isn't yours in the sense that you are responsible for every single policy and law and like you are responsible for writing god (the conception central to judaism islam christianity - probably not so synchronous with bhuddism, hinduism, paganism, etc) into the constitution and so on and so forth
> The only things I would call our "ideals" are the same things that have people beating down the door to get here: reward for hard work, opportunity and freedom.
i'm going to grit my teeth about now and say 'yes of course the american dream has a description that makes it desirable'. what i worry about is
1) whether hard work is necessarily rewarded (how are the illegal immigrants doing with rewards of healthcare and decent wages and decent working conditions etc)
2) opportunity i wonder how much luck comes into play. like buying a lotto ticket buys you the opportunity to become a millionare...
3) freedom where the focus seems to be on freedom to do whatever you want at the expense of pepole having freedom from certain things (ie freedom to carry a firearm at the expense of other people having the freedom to not get shot) and so on... freedom to persue happiness via material wealth (which comes at significant cost to third world countries / the environment etc)... where the 'persuit of happiness' is considered an ideal (at cost to third world countries / the environment etc) when there is no ideal of contentment and moderation...and any country has problems. and you can talk about the ideology of my (former - cause i'm probably more attached to that one) country. but you will probably have to have a bit of a hunt to figure what it is we do believe 'cause i don't know that we have the catchphrases and slogans and i don't know that they are as repeated around the world...
> The rest is just details. And it seems that as hard as I try I just can't seem to show you the difference.
yes having trouble...
what is interesting to me is the flipside.
that there is a flipside
that there is a counterdescription.because the same for iraq
because the same for iran
because the same for china
because the same for nazi germany
and so on and so forth...
poster:special_k
thread:634229
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060412/msgs/634531.html