Posted by katekite on June 16, 2002, at 10:23:53
In reply to Re: overgeneralizations, posted by beardedlady on June 16, 2002, at 5:59:25
I don't disagree that Dr. Bob has to influence the character of what is posted to protect the site's goals. I meant influence in a negative and restrictive way: I didn't think he wanted to do that.
I would have liked a chance to hear LostBoyNC's opinion on why he felt psychology was unrelated to serious mental illness. He probably had some personal experience that might have been enlightening, or saw some study, might have explained how he came up with that perception.
Who are any of us to say that he is not 100% correct? Perhaps in 50 years there will be a genetic or physiological explanation for serious mental illness, quick and tidy medical solutions, and therapy will be reserved for minor mental problems.
For example, CBT works quite well for many things, but perhaps it works through enhancing firing of particular circuits and inhibiting firing of others, upregulation, down-regulation, etc. Our conditioned responses are neurological! C. elegans and Pavlov's dogs are good teachers for this concept.
Psychology in some teaching is an set of principles like id and ego, etc, constructs that have no definable neurological correlate. Psychology in other teaching is virtually anything that pertains to the brain. We could have asked which he meant. I'm guessing he meant the former, but how will we know? I think Dr. Bob guessed otherwise?
Apart from a semantic discussion of the meaning of psychology, there may be real contention over how or whether therapy can support those with mental illness.
I believe whole-heartedly that therapy makes a difference for everyone who believes it does (and I'm included in that believer-segment, luckily).
Let's suppose LostBoyNC has major depression and is maybe a bit paranoid and a bit agitated. Lets suppose he doesn't think talking helps at all because it's not neurological. Suppose he was searching the web for magic neurological cures and happened by here. Suppose he posted that psychology sucked, and I talked and I showed him some evidence that therapy changes neurophysiological measures of stress, (Like how depressed aids patients taught coping skills have much lower cortisol and thus a better disease course than those who weren't.)Suppose I found the reference to the studies that showed CBT reduced recurrence of major depression more than a course of drugs. Pretty cool findings and obviously have to be neurological in the mechanism. Maybe he'd end up being less afraid of therapy and maybe he might call someone when he feels really close to suicide vs figuring that because its biological its unchangeable through thought and action. Maybe that would be good for him. (I'm giving myself a lot of credit in advance here, LOL, and am not convinced he wouldn't have told me what I was saying was stupid).
Apart from whatever effect what we say might have on him, being supportive helps us. The founding principle of AA was a good one, that helping others helps us. It seems that principle applies to this site. That's why we're here, to exchange support and information just like the idealized exchange I described above. Which is what Dr. Bob just said before, but from which I've drawn the opposite conclusion: that lostboync shouldn't have been criticized for his over-generalization, but rather been supported and talked to.
I know Dr. Bob's intent is good and the line is always hard to find, but this clearly seems to me like a statement that was not harmful.
I wanted to hear his opinion, I don't think he would have hurt others had he simply stopped the swearing which he was not given a chance to do, and the chance to help him, and us, is perhaps lost.
I'm playing devil's advocate at this point. Obviously LostBoyNC didn't make friends in the short time he was here. But perhaps he could have benefitted or perhaps we could have, or both, had he had just a little more leeway.
And with that, I will accept Dr. Bob's judgement or lack thereof. :) I have appreciated his moderation in every instance up until now and will appreciate it hereafter.
Kate
poster:katekite
thread:5639
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020510/msgs/5647.html