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Lou's rebuttle-Lithium is not a drug » Tomatheus

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2016, at 17:19:56

In reply to Re: deception? » Lou Pilder, posted by Tomatheus on February 19, 2016, at 17:02:26

> Lou Pilder has made the charge against me that I have deceived Psycho-Babble readers by not providing a source to support my statement that there's clear evidence from scientific sources that psychiatric medications can be beneficial for many of those who utilize the medications. I chose not to cite any sources in my original statement because scientific sources describing and documenting the benefits of psychiatric medications can be easily obtained through electronic means. However, with it being clear that at least one member here would like to see a source to support my statement pertaining to the benefits of psychiatric medications, I will provide one.
>
> Since the member who started this thread wrote that she had recently begun taking lithium carbonate, I will provide a source from the psychiatric literature that documents the benefits of lithium carbonate. Young & Hammond (2007), in the abstract of their report that was published in The British Journal of Psychiatry, stated the following: "Use of lithium for the treatment of bipolar disorder may be declining even as knowledge of the efficacy and side-effects of lithium has increased. Recent meta-analyses confirm the benefits of maintenance lithium treatment and show that it reduces suicide and suicidality. Psychiatrists should continue to utilise this efficacious treatment for bipolar disorder." The authors of the above-cited report described the benefits of lithium carbonate for people with bipolar disorder in the following statements:
>
> "The decline in lithium use has occurred as the evidence base supporting its use has strengthened. Although the efficacy of lithium in treating acute mania is long-established, doubts remained about its prophylactic efficacy until recently. Recent regulatory clinical trials of new medications for bipolar disorder have included lithium as a gold-standard comparator and Smith et al (2007) used these studies in a meta-analysis evaluating the effectiveness of lithium as a maintenance treatment in this disorder.
>
> "This meta-analysis of 14 randomised controlled trials, of which 8 included placebo arms, provides strong evidence for the prophylactic efficacy of lithium, which prevented relapse to any mood episode with a hazard ratio of 0.68 (95% CI 0.530.86; Smith et al, 2007). The overall prophylactic efficacy of lithium was largely explained by the reduction in manic relapses (hazard ratio 0.53, 95% CI 0.350.79). Lithium-treated patients also had fewer depressive relapses, but this effect was smaller and not statistically significant.
>
> "The efficacy of lithium in bipolar disorder is recognised by the most recent evidence-based clinical guidelines for bipolar disorder, which recommend it as a first-line treatment (Canadian Network for Mood and Anxiety Treatments, 2006; National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, 2006)."
>
> I should point out that the member who started this thread asked for my thoughts on the medications that she's taking. I did just that. And now that a desire has been expressed that I provide a source to support the statement that I made about the benefits of psychiatric medications, I've done that, as well. I would also like to point out that I feel hurt by the charge that I deceived members here on this site and that I find such a charge to be false, as I most certainly did not intend to state anything that was incorrect, nor do I have any reason to believe that I did (especially now that I've provided a source to support the statement that I made regarding the benefits of psychiatric medications). Lou Pilder often writes of others that what they write "could decrease the respect, regard and confidence" in which he is held and "induce hostile and disagreeable feelings and opinions" about him. Well, Lou, what effect do you think that erroneously accusing someone of deceiving members on this site can have? Do you think that it could decrease the respect, regard, and confidence in which I'm held and induce hostile and disagreeable feelings and opinions about me? If you don't like it when others here write things that lead you to feel hurt and accused, then why do you write things that could lead me to feel the same way? Do my feelings not matter?
>
> Tomatheus
>
> ==
>
> REFERENCE
>
> Young, A.H., & Hammond, J.M. (2007). Lithium in mood disorders: Increasing evidence base, declining use? The British Journal of Psychiatry, 191, 474-476. Article: http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/191/6/474
>
> ==
>
> > Friends,
> > Be not deceived. The poster writes,[...there is clear evidence from scientific sources that psychiatric drugs can be beneficial for many that are drugged with them...].
> > At what price? Addiction? Life-ruining conditions? Death?
> > You see, the poster cites no reputable source to substantiate the claim. In fact, 1000s of people are killed by these drug each month. And look at those killed here. And look at those here in a living death, waiting to die and wanting to kill themselves. Are they benefited?
> > You see, there could be an initial benefit from these drugs due to the placebo effect. And if you send 1000 swimmers across an alligator infested river, some will make it to the other side. And if they try to swim back, they might not be so lucky.
> > The danger here is that you could be influenced to take these drugs on the account of what the poster wrote. But what really did the poster say? What the poster did say is that he/she is not a fan of psychiatric drugs, nor did the poster stipulate what the benefit is. Do you not see the deception here? Make the poster post his/her substantiation of the claim. Then I will shoot it down with the real research and the argument from the poster will fall apart so quick that you may wonder why this site allows the claim to be made.
> > Lou
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7rACl-WJEw
>
> Friends,
Be not deceived. The poster wrote that there are people that get benefit from psychiatric drugs. I asked at what price.
When these type of arguments arise, my opponents bring up Lithium and people think that Lithium is a drug. Lithium is not a drug. This then becomes a straw man fallacy by substituting Lithium for a drug when it is not.
Lou

 

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poster:Lou Pilder thread:1086267
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20160131/msgs/1086298.html