Posted by yxibow on September 1, 2006, at 14:44:55
In reply to Re: Biopsychosocial vs Biological Reductionism » yxibow, posted by Estella on September 1, 2006, at 13:41:58
> > Well true insults aside...
>
> I'm not intending to insult anybody.Well if you knew the individuals you would be, but that's beside the point.
>
> > key scientific individuals whose intellectual product have helped save the lives of thousands of people with OCD...>
> > when at a time it was just a "neurotic" disorderBefore the book "The Boy Who Couldn't Stop Washing" came out in the late 80s.
> > OCD was clearly based on biological underpinnings.
Most people with mental illness have... Surprisingly (perhaps) normal brains. So much the worse for... Notions of mental illness. Lol.We're not arguing whether people are "normal" or have "normal" brains, normal is an artificial concept -- we're talking about brains that are different to your "average" control that you are going on about.
> > if you gave a sufferer a dirty rag and a control the same, areas of the brain normally not thought to possess suchprocessing energy light up, for example.
>
> The colours that are chosen to represent different levels of activation are completely arbitrary. Researchers tend to choose the colours that make up the most impressive visual display. Lol.This is not funny to sufferers of OCD. Please be civil about it.
>
> > 2% of the population will have an OCD breakthrough at least once in their lifetime.
>
> So their brains differ from normal and then... Spontaneously switch back again?No. It seems to me you have not ever studied OCD. 2% will have it for their ENTIRE lifetime. And yes, there are outside triggers that influence the biological switch that turns on. Most frequently puberty but can be other traumatic eras. Then things may recede and come back in another format, triggered by other events.
> > That's what brain imaging has increasingly helped in demonstrably showing.
>
> How has brain imaging helped with that? OCD is defined by behavioural criteria not byOCD is a behavioural form if you are referring that we have free will, OCD sufferers for the most part except a small percent which fall in the psychotic spectrum know what they are doing. Nonetheless their brains will light up like a candle in the caudate nucleus.
> > I can't argue circular logic that if everybody is the same then everybody is the same.
>
> But people are different. Both normal people and different people with the same dx. If you are hoping for similarities across different people with the same dx...Of course people are different, slightly, in their brains and genes. I could even make a profound statement that would be considered racist that there are genetic variations and things that can be imaged across race. But in the same light, OCD is experienced regardless of ethnicity or location. Its just a question of quality of medicine and studies.
> How much do biological reductionist models actually help us understand
> 1) mental illness across population typesSee above
> 2) my particular variety of difficulty?
I don't know what you suffer from.
>
> > If you believe brain imaging has no basis, I cannot argue science over pseudorationalization. MRIs clearly show an increasingly accurate diagnosis as to whether cancer exists, etc.
>
> We aren't talking about cancer we are talking about mental illness. You might have something approaching a litmus test for cancer but there is nothing comperable to that with respect to mental illness. If you neuroimage someones brain you can't use that for dx. So... How much does neuroimaging help accurate dx of mental illness???Without getting profoundly annoyed and uncivil, I have never said they diagnose illnesses -- YET. They are RESEARCH tools that help us in better diagnostics of future methods of treatment.
>
> > And when SPECT and other technologies are perfected, who knows what we will discover...
>
> Well that is the question really. I say... Not a lot.I beg to differ. I am also ending this argument because I cannot argue that the world is round or flat without saying some rather uncivil statements. I do believe this is a partial ruse thread, however as I said I am civil and you have free will as a human being hopefully in a democratic area to believe as you wish.
Tidings-- Jay
poster:yxibow
thread:680731
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060901/msgs/682070.html