Posted by Willyee on January 28, 2005, at 0:02:13
In reply to Are any of these new GABA meds effective?, posted by 3 Beer Effect on January 27, 2005, at 21:17:24
> It has been a few years since i've been a regular poster on here so I've lost track of all these new GABA meds.
>
> I am always looking for a 3 Beer Effect type medication & sadly, have never found anything better than the 1.5 Beer Effect of Prozac or Zoloft 100 mg.
>
> The Benzos were a big dissapointment to me. They seem to have severe disadvantages of tolerance, dumbness "they are supposed to impair thinking & memory by about 10%), mild depression, & the rebound anxiety when you stop taking them is ridiculous. I had never had a panic attack until I stopped taking Klonopin a few years ago. Not only that but they don't have any of the positive effects of alcohol, namely the extreme self confidence that alcohol gives you. The only meds that seem to replicate this confidence are Prozac, Zoloft, and Dextrostat/Dexedrine.
>
> No one prescribes the barbituates or Miltown anymore, but I have a feeling that they would be closer to a 3 beer effect because of their greater similarity to alcohol. Chloral Hydrate looks good on paper, but it supposedly knocks you out rather than curing anxiety.
>
> But there are all these new GABA meds out there. Gabitril intrigues me because isn't it almost like an MAOI of GABA?
>
> What about Pregabalin? Does it cross the blood brain barrier easier than neurontin? Neurontin is weird cause you have to take like 90 million mgs 10 x per day for it to do anything.
>
> What about this stuff on the internet called Picamilone? It says that it is GABA bonded to Niacin & that IT CROSSES THE BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER! Wouldn't that make it like GHB? (definitely a 3 Beer Effect drug!) Somehow that seems to good to be true (& with most herbals producing little to no results I imagine it is).
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> What other GABAergic meds are in the pipeline? Because GABA is an inhibitory transmitter, does that mean all GABAergic drugs are "dumb drugs'?
>
> Cheers 3 Beer EffectI can hopefully answer the above post on gabitril here also,kill two birds with one stone.
You are not missing much by avoiding most of the gaba meds,aside from benzos,rarly do u see people get any stable long term relief from them alone.Gaba increases quickly accumalte,so as dopamine accumalation from excess deprenyl causes anxiety agitation,an abundance of gaba cause horrable depression,general weakness,a real bad attitutde,a feeling of stupour like you cant imagine,oh and worsens anxiety.
Most gaba meds are best when used in very small doses as an add-on to a AD.Strong gaba agents taken alone may feel good once or twice,like a high,but will quickly have you feeling terrable.I rember gabitril taken alone had me having horrific nightmares,and falling asleep constanly,i also had this sick gut feeling.I rember reading a post from someone who said gabitril actualy CAUSED him convulsions,and it alone does seem to cause me to twitch.
Benzos do more than simply increase gaba,they play a role in a few things happening,i had a article stating klonopin played a role in a few nuerontransmitters,xanax i believe has a role on serontion,they are not simply increasing gaba,they are more complex,which is why they tend to make one feel somewhat normal at regualr dosages,than high,even when taken alone.
GHB,well thats in a class of its own,and that too is not just a gaba enhancer,and no med,and especialy no supplement can even be compared to it.
GHB at very small doses actualy raises dopamine,and at high doses raises ghb,a chemical of its own,i believe a metabolite of gaba or precursor,cant rember,but its a substance on its own,and ghb intake has shown does not neccassrly increase over all gaba,but increases ghb.
Also the sedative effects of it are STRONG,but quick,and you avoid a lot of straight gaba side effects because before you know it the stored dopamine is relaesed,so you dont have either or,you actualy still have the sedative relaxing attributes,as you beging to feel the stimulant effects of the dopamine rebound kicking in slowly.When its done,you have increased ghb levels and dopamine levels,so you feel relaxed and sharpened.This of course is with responsable strict use,it is easly abused,the pro social,pro sexual,pro mood,properties of it make abuse easy to even the most responsable person.This might be so because it has an extremly sharp dose curve,a mg or so can make a difference.
Having tried gaba meds,and still a user of uh well,i can tell you ghb is non comparable to any gaba med or supplement.The premises of ghb seems great,but it is just too complex too use,and there are real real horror stories of addiction,more than should be on a therputic substance,i use it now mostly for an occasional sexual benifit,once in a blue moon,i simply seen to many people fall victim,and the withdrawal is said to be for some unbearable,for many requiring being hospitlized.Here is a quick run down of my exper.....
Nuerontion - Very unnatural feel of gaba,feels like plastic in your head,can provide benifits at initial onstart,but unless used as a add-on quickly builds to the menitoned above,in fact localy there are ads running concerning the drug possably causing sucidal ideation.
Gabitril - A more natural feel,but accumalted is no different than nuerontion in its side effects,nightmares,depression,anxiety etc
Tegatrol - This is a wierd one,seemed very different,very mild compared to the above two,but also very blah,dident seem helpful at all.Defitnaly not in the class of the above two which are HEAVY HITTERS.
Picamilion - Plain sh*tty,subtle,and useless.
Phenibutt - As far as supplements go,this could be a med,this is a very unique supplment,has late onset,and will get you very very stoned,its late onset makes it easy to take to much,and it remains active for a while,but while it is makes you social and i guess depression is not there.This was hoped to be the ghb repleacment,however consensus agrees it as a defintive poop out,and results are said not to return.
Kava Kava - Another substance not to be compared to a gaba substance,valerian increases gaba,and the two are very different,reason being kava is one of the most complex substances,hitting approx 15 receptor sites depending on dosage,and can affect almost every nuerontransmitter.It does however have a high affinity for gaba,but does not simply increase it,and in no way resembles any of the gaba meds.
Last....L-Theanine- Some people love this stuff,increases both dopamine and gaba,sounds great dont it,well as many people who like it,prob triple hate it,myself being one.It seems to make me dumb,and very very angry.
All in all i tried using gaba agents alone once,and i was a walking iddiot,with anxiety,talking nonsense.I have found great value however with low dose gabitril,kava,and ghb when added to my anti depressant,they gave it that little push that kept the AD one step behind of being pro social,and it allowed the AD to work,but also encouraged me to get out and interact,when they worked it was god send.
My AD doesent seem to help with getting me out and social,so i still use the above on low doses in combo,i switch around since they all seem to poop out.But again in small doses,add to a working AD,they do great.
Sorry for the long post,i just have had a lot of experiance in this field,until i finaly realized that gaba being the root cause of anxiety was just too simple,and stopped torturing myself with overloads of these.Anyone who read this whole thing,my hats off to you.
Note: Klonopin hands down is the most trust worthy still,just no fun at all to take.Also since there is a situation with Nuerontion causing possable sucidal ideation,id go with gabaitril if you are gonna take one,the lw suits are real and in action.
poster:Willyee
thread:448915
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050124/msgs/448983.html