Posted by Larry Hoover on December 19, 2004, at 9:42:52
In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome? » Larry Hoover, posted by mattdds on December 19, 2004, at 8:50:07
> >>Ya, but dose may be an issue, too. Too much melatonin can do as you describe. Individual differences in dose-responsivity are such that the typical 3 mg tablet can be far in excess of your individual needs. Saturation of the melatonin receptors actually shuts some of them off, and inhibits sleep induction.
>
> Sorry, I'm American, and more is always better.I'm sorry, but the American taxpayer may not necessarily agree with you.
> Wow, hadn't thought of that. This is interesting because I was taking my dad's horse pills (2mg) when I trialed melatonin. Maybe I'll give it another go at a lower dose. Perhaps 0.5mg 6h before bedtime? I'm not even sure what "sizes" they come in.
All the ones I see around are 3 mg, but I know you can get a variety of other doses, and liquids, too.
I just break the pills, myself.
> I remember thinking before taking them that melatonin is released in extremely tiny amounts (measured in nanograms, no?) by the pineal gland, and that 2mg seemed like a whopping dose.
Actually, perhaps 300 or 400 micrograms. But there are a whole lot of variables that affect the amount of oral melatonin that gets to the brain, and thus the "individual differences" thingie.
First pass metabolism is going to take out a considerable part of the dose, but that's going to vary substantially, as the responsible cytochrome enzymes exhibit quite a broad level of activity. Then you have systemic dilution. Those poor little melatonin molecules don't have JDAM targetting. We're talking old-fashioned carpet bombing here. Then you've got the high reactivity of melatonin itself. It's an excellent antioxidant, so systemic pro-oxidant status is a totally uncontrolled variable.
> Sounds similar to what supposedly happens during initial SSRI therapy. Autoreceptor stimulation?
I hate to get all caught up in mechanisms. It's nice to consider them, but without any verification, it's all just words.
BTW, magnesium deficiency might be implicated in DSPS, too. QHS magnesium, 200-300 mg, might help with the resynchronization process.
> Cool stuff Larry, thanks!
I do love questions. Thank you!
> And hey, good to see you posting here too. I know from my lurking days, that you were missed by many.
Ya. I'm doing my best to avoid any further incidents.
> Regards,
>
> MattI guessed from the time zone shift that you're somewhere in the middle east region. I hope you can actually access stuff that's readily available on the net. Stay safe, man.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:431185
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041217/msgs/431597.html