Posted by douglass on April 9, 2004, at 22:01:14
In reply to Motiavion meds (similar to Adderall/amphetamines)?, posted by btnd on April 8, 2004, at 5:07:48
> Has anynone ever used any meds or supplements which gave the mental motivation and desire to achieve and create, like after consuming amphetamine-based meds? (Adderall/Dexedrine).
>
> Personally only 2 things worked little similar to amph.
>
> 1) Clonazepam. At 2mg/day. But only during first 3 days of usage. After those 3 days - the anti-anxiety effect was still present, but motivation aspect went away, unfortunately. No other benzos worked in similar way as Klonopin.
>
> 2) Ultram. 100-200mg/day. But only at around 1/4 of the motivation which amphetamine give.
>
> No other supplements, or meds worked like amphs. Anyone has had experiences ? I appreciate your input.
>
> Take care,
> Brad
Brad, I suffer from combat PTSD with secondary major depression. Thru usual AD I got my depression under control. Then after a few years I started to feel a lack of energy, motivation,not getting pleasure out of anything and an extreme lack of energy physically and psychically. I also looked at the dopaminergics and found a few that worked, but one in particular and some OTC Da precursors or releasers. In dec 2000 I tried Survector(amineptine)100mg/tab I had found in Argentina. This after much research about the drug and an excruciating search for months till I found a place that sold it to the public on the inter net. I bought some and within days I started to perk up and within 2 weeks the full effect had been achieved.
I had more energy to do things, my thoughts were more productive as I was near vegetative in my thinking and they came much more easily. I had motivation to start new projects and see them to the end and get much satisfaction out of simple tasks. My socializing was improving so I didn't feel I had to go out of my way not to talk to peope, I would engadge in conversations. My ability to listen and carry on a two way conversation was such a good feeling after so many years being silent. I felt more normal than I ever did.
I started out at 50mg and experimented with the dose till I found the optimal dose for me was 200mg daily. It didn't seem to matter if I took the full 200mg in morning or cut it up into two or three doses through out the day, so I took them both in the morning. Some even take them before bedtime as they aren't like amph where they will keep you up.
I also take klonopin 2mg/day for anxiety and found a synergystic affect also but that synergy pooped out after a couple months, but I still take klonopin for the anxiety.I'm not sure how much amineptine deals with anxiety as I never washed out of klonopin and tried just amineptine for anxiety.
I started to find out about some precursors to dopamine and DL-Phenalalinine was the best at 2000mg/day, L-Tyrosine was also of some benefit, but it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier as easily as DL Phenalalinine.(these medium to large sized molecules of amino acids have to be taken on an empty stomach as there is competition with other amino acids to cross the BBB ).
Also mentioned was NADH and just by itself is energizing but I found I needed 20-30mg NADH to get the energizing effect wnen at just 5mg it works geat synergistically with amineptine. Again you have to find your own dose so start at 5mg and then 10mg if it's not enough. Usually with NADH your so depleted of this nutrient that it takes a few weeks to quench the cell mitochondria of this much needed nutrient for making energy at the cellular level, Once you've saturated the cells, you can even cut back on the dose of NADH, you'll feel the extra dopamine if the dose of either is too high, so depending on which is cheapest, you can cut back on either amineptine or NADH, but they both are expensive so I guess it doesn't matter. I keep my amineptine at 200mg and adjust any other add on's around that.
One more worth mentioning is a B-MAOI only, lke selegeline 5mg. This is a dopaminergic used for parkinsons but is also a very effective anti depressant on it's own(a selegeline patch should be marketed soon for major depression). My Pdoc and I have carefully titrated these to get the best results without getting hypomanic but just below that.'I have not experienced any poop out as others have with amineptine, maybe it;s the DL Phenalalinine that keeps raw material for the production of dopamine steady as the body needs it.There is a rate limiting factor of an enzyme that turns DL Phenal. to Tyrosine, which is turned to dopamine, then seratonine and melatonin.The enzyme has more than one function so when it's used up then no matter how much DL Phenal. is taken it won't get changed down to dopamine, I believe it's tyrosinehydroxylase.
Survector is available by searching the web for it's site.
Tell your Pdoc what your are thinking of doing or are doing so you can be monitored medically and psychologically for your safety.There are so many variables that no one regimen that works for me may work for you, but it's an alternative to the adderall, ritalin, dexadrine and all the amph. class drugs. Ask others who have posted their experience on amineptine their opinions.
Good luck and don't stop looking, somewhere there's an answer to your dilemma
douglass
poster:douglass
thread:333998
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040407/msgs/334730.html